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Birdman said:
The IRONY of all of this is that the "Director" believes that he is correct and the "Executive" is pointing out the truth of the situation. The Director doesn't believe what the Executive is saying because he wants/needs for himself to be the one who's right. The whole purpose of the writer ... was to illustrate how people sometimes don't want to listen to any criticism. They look away from reality because reality is just too damned hard to face .

This is amazingly just like this thread. You can look and see exactly what I've pointed out ... But you don't want to accept the reality of it.

-Birdman
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On that, I think, we can all agree. Whether contrived or not, I think the exchange pretty fairly captures the personal drama and hyperbole that many new artists bring. They expect adoration. When it's not forthcoming, they throw tantrums, threaten and scream.

For the record, I tend to mirror the opening and closings of the person who sends me an email as a gesture of respect and collegiality. If someone closes "Kind regards", so will I. As the executive, I would not have gone beyond letter two--"Thanks, we're not interested at this time." The third letter would have been ignored or I'd have made a note to not accept or read any submissions from that author. Again, from personal experience, that's the kind of 'real life drama' a production company doesn't want and will actively avoid.

And you're right, it is funny to watch how new artists argue pointlessly that they're right based on their own rather limited experience and opinions.

What made it unbelievable for me, is that given that atrocious initial query letter (4 pages reading the details included!), I know of no professional agency, let alone executive, that would have even given him an initial follow-up. If this were real, it would have been a formal courtesy given they met briefly at a film festival or event. In my experience, most producers are busy and don't mince words when they think something is crap. And reading it without a signed release, not likely to happen for an executive. The writer/director is the kind of nut case that would try to sue you for stealing his idea.
 
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Birdman said:
You (and several others) are free to believe whatever you want to. The reason many want to believe this was a true email exchange is for the following reasons:…

This is amazingly just like this thread. You can look and see exactly what I've pointed out ... But you don't want to accept the reality of it.
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Birdman – I think you’re misinterpreting what I am saying. I agree that this e-mail exchange is probably fictional. A lot of it does read as though it is the work of a single writer. In fact, you’re right in that it does sound somewhat like those chain e-mails we all hate.

But the fact remains that this is not proof. You have no proof. You are arguing the toss over what is possibly a piece of fiction, based on assumptions which have no real basis on anything that anybody has written.

You sound like you are defending the writer, agreeing with his decision to continue arguing with the producer, who owed the writer nothing, but still chose to respond to him. Again, it’s not the producer’s job to offer feedback at all. It’s also not their job to sugar-coat their own beliefs. The writer comes across as being almost egotistical and not very humble.

Realistically, whether this is fictitious or not, the point remains the same. And it’s fine for us to debate real issues brought to light by fiction; in high-school (many moons ago) I studied “To Kill A Mockingbird”, “Nineteen-Eighty-Four” and “Lord Of The Flies”, debating the many issues raised in these novels, the whole while knowing that they were works of fiction.

If we accept that this is fiction, then whose side are you on? Do you really believe the producer should be stroking the writers ego?
 
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No, Hatter. I feel pretty much just like FantasySciFi has posted. I'm not defending or advocating either party.

All I did was point out that it was a fabricated exchange designed to highlight a specific point. As I've stated before (and FSF is echoing) ...people don't behave this way (on either side) in real life.

I am not defending the Director. I'm defending "Reality".

-Birdman
 
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Birdman said:
In REAL life, the Executive would not have responded in his second email the way that he did. And if there was an actual script review (and a subsequent third response) he would have probably written back something like this:

...In real life, there would be no more responses from the Executive after that no matter what the Director wrote.
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Producers are human too. Some can lie, and say, - "You've got a great work, but we're overloaded with scripts and blah blah blah...", - when there can be others, who honestly say, - "Your work isn't good for us". I've actually got a rejection with the producer saying that my idea is not good enough for them. They don't owe you a positive feedback.

And what surprises you about the 3rd response? Not all producers share the "don't answer noob" tactics. Some can have long conversations with you. 4 month ago I've actually talked to an Israeli producer from Transfax company by phone. We talked like 15 minutes, and he gave much useful info.

Sweetie said:
One thing that writers don't always understand, particular producers are looking for what's right for them. It doesn't always mean the material is bad, it's sometimes just not a good fit for them.
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True. I've got a rejection with the producer saying it doesn't fit them.
 
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With so many here (and elsewhere) suggesting this exchange (real or fabricated) has a sad ring of truth about it I wonder how the same series of exchanges would read with the roles reversed: the producer pleading and arguing with the writer to produce his screenplay?

Would many argue that theoretical exchange sounds plausable?
 
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rayw said:
With so many here (and elsewhere) suggesting this exchange (real or fabricated) has a sad ring of truth about it I wonder how the same series of exchanges would read with the roles reversed: the producer pleading and arguing with the writer to produce his screenplay?

Would many argue that theoretical exchange sounds plausable?
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There are certainly times when studios get into a bidding war over scripts.
But I think it's unlikely the exchange would be via email in this scenario
 
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Alright.
A producer (or a group of producers) decided to fabricate an email conversation, making a screenwriter an idiot, so that they could justify why they don't accept unsolicited scripts.

That's what you saying? What can be more ridiculous?! This is filming industry, not a Cold War!
 
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Inarius,

I said the Executive wouldn't have responded the way that he did in his SECOND response ...because he had already said "No" in his first response.

I also saw that this "Chris Jones" character posted this exchange in his "Blog". ......Well, there ya go!


More Email Forensics: The "Director" started many of his email sentences (and even paragraphs!) with the words "And" and "But". ....Don't you find it rather strange that Chris Jones did the same with his own stinkin' commentary? He even does the same in his responses to people's posts. ...That's because he wrote the damned thing!


But it must be true! ...It's on the INTERNET

-Birdman
 
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Just the other day, I was talking with a good friend of mine about a script he recently sold. I was curious how he did it. I mean, the guy isn't exactly the sharpest tool in the shed. He told me his agent had been shopping it around and showed me the email copies. This is what he shared. Of course, I've had to heavily edit out specifics because the movie is in pre-production. For the sake of ease, I've called my friend's agent, Jake (not his real name).
Letter 1:
Dear Mr. XX,
Please find enclosed the manuscript which you requested along with the signed submission release. If you have any questions, feel free to contact me. Because of the timely nature of this piece and your interest in ***, I thought you would be particularly interested.
Best,
Jake
Response 1:
Jake:
Read it, thought the story was good, but would take lots of re-writing. Think we'll pass.
Thanks,
XX
Dear XX,
Thanks for your reply. If you have something of closer interest to your studio, I'll keep my eyes open. I know Studio 2 was looking for scripts in my client's genre and thought I'd offer you first.
Best,
Jake
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Letter 2:
Dear Mr. YY,
I was recently approached by another studio requesting a copy of my client's manuscript. Knowing that your studio has done well with ***, I would like to see if you'd be interested in getting a chance to preview this script. If so, please contact me as your earliest convenience.
Yours,
Jake
Response 2:
Dear Jake,
While our studio is interested in ***, we have several projects in queue. We don't have the time or resources at the moment. If you want to forward the script, I'll have our production manager read it to see if it might interest us.
Best,
YY
Dear YY,
I'll forward it along. Congratulations on the release of "MMM". I heard through the grapevine that Studio 3 might have another award winner in the wings. Because it was in my client's genre, I thought this might be of interest.
Regards,
Jake
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Letter 3:
Dear Ms. ZZ,
As you may remember, I contacted you earlier and brought you "XXX" and "YYY" which both brought you considerable accolades in the festival circuit. I have another script that I think may interest your studio. The writer is a little green but shows great talent. He is open to re-write as needed. It could be the next Sundance. Let me know if you'd like me to forward a copy.
Regards,
Jake
Response 3:
Hi Jake,
Yes! "***" did really well at Cannes. We aren't ready to launch into our next project but definitely forward the script. I know that *** doesn't mind working with new writers. Of course, money will be an issue until the overseas revenues and expenses from "ZZZ" clear.
Best,
ZZ
Hi ZZ,
Please find the manuscript attached. I was disappointed to hear that Studio 1 and Studio 2 are both considering movies in the genre ***. Hope that doesn't dissuade your interest. Seems it's the new genre among the box office demographic.
Best
Jake
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Then it all began.
Dear Jake,
After our exchange, I shared the script with my partner. He thought it would be worth optioning. If you want to contact my office at 999-999-9999, my office can arrange the details with you for your client.
Regards,
XX
Dear XX,
Before your letter, I received interest from another interested studio. They just placed at Cannes and were interested in moving into this genre. I'm obligated contractually to give them time to make an offer. If my client is unwilling to accept their offer, would you be willing to counteroffer?
Faithfully,
Jake
Dear Jake,
I've heard through my sources that other studios are moving into ***. I think it would be prudent for my company to consider scripts in that arena. When you hear back, we would be willing to counteroffer but we will not go over five figures given the writer is new.
Yours,
XX
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Dear Jake,
My production manager read "ZZZ". It contains many errors. It won't work for us at this time.
-YY
Dear Mr. YY,
Thank you for giving the manuscript a read. I recognize its deficiencies and have asked a consultant to work with the writer. Since then, I've received another request for his manuscript. Again, I deeply appreciate your willingness to read it.
Best wishes,
Jake
Dear Jake,
After your letter, I read the script myself. While it has faults, the story itself is basically solid. It would require extensive rewriting to make it meet our standards. Before you option it, send me an email to see if we can negotiate a reasonable option.
Sincerely,
YY
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Hi Jake,
I got the script. You're right, it's very noob! Honestly, I think it would take too much time to make it feasible for us. I wish you luck.
Yours,
ZZ
Hey ZZ,
Thanks for you quick response. I know this one will be a tough sell as is. I've asked a consultant to work with the author to get it up to snuff though it's already gotten a few nibbles. I do appreciate that you were willing to give him a shot.
Best,
Jake
Hi Jake,
Yeah, this one's a pass. But if he comes up with another script in this genre or the next draft is much improved, feel free to contact me. We may be willing to consider.
Best,
ZZ
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Now what really pisses me off, is that my friend hooked up with Jake at Comic Con. My friend wrote a webseries that spoofed "Powerpuff Girls". Jake liked it and asked him if he wrote anything else. And thus my friend--through his agent Jake--walked away with a sale in the six figures for a crappy script full of spelling and grammar errors, verbose descriptions and the poorest pacing in the world. Just goes to show, you just got to be damn lucky to be a successful screenwriter.

[Please note, this is all fictional !!! Well, most of it anyway.]
 
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The following is a REAL email exchange and not like that bullshit exchange from the other website. ...This one just hasn't happened yet.

========================================

FIRST EMAIL FROM BIRDMAN:

Dear XXXXX,

I am an undiscovered screenwriter with unparalleled talent. Your name and company was given to me from a member of the IndieTalk.com Screenplay forum. I recently completed a full-length science fiction adventure movie script and would greatly appreciate your providing a review. The people on this forum tell me it's virtually impossible for someone to have their spec script/screenplay actually made into a movie. They have also pointed out that since this is my first screenplay attempt, the odds are exponentially worse for me ever being discovered.

Would you please take the time and review the attached spec script, "XXXXXXX". If you would like to discuss it afterwards I can be reached at (555) 555-5555. I can also be reached at this email address.

Thank you for your consideration.

Sincerely,
XXXXX Birdman


RESPONSE FROM PRODUCER:

Dear Mr. Birdman.

This email address is for inter-departmental use only. Whoever supplied you with this address has done so in error. Furthermore, we do not accept unsolicited movie scripts. We have a dedicated studio department that screens all potential scripts from a list of paid writers.

If you feel you have potential as a writer I suggest you send an application to our studio along with a sample of your work and any writing credentials you currently have. A XXXXXX Studios, Inc. talent representative will contact you if it is determined there is a need for your services.

Sincerely,
R. P. XXXXXXXXXXX



SECOND EMAIL FROM BIRDMAN:

Dear Mr. XXXXXXXXXXX

I understand the need for the screening protocol, but I'm asking that you make an exception in my case. The attached movie script (XXXXXXXXX.PDF) is a guaranteed money maker for your studio. I'm confident that after your review my script will feel the same.

Time is of the essence in this case as many of the scenes are relative to events currently happening in today's society. If we were to wait for the standard screening process we could be missing the window of opportunity.

Please review my attached spec script at your convenience. Again, I can be reached at (555) 555-5555. You can also reach my at this email address.

Sincerely,
XXXXX Birdman


SECOND RESPONSE FROM PRODUCER:

Dear Mr. Birdman

As stated before, this is an inter-departmental email address. Please refrain from any further correspondence using this email address. I am not the person you need to be contacting. Please send an application for a writing position to our human resources department. If there is a need for your services, someone from our studio will contact you.

Sincerely,
R. P. XXXXXXXXXXX



THIRD EMAIL FROM BIRDMAN:

Dear Mr. XXXXXXXXXX,

I understand this is an interdepartmental email address. I apologize for using it in this manner, but sometimes drastic measures need to be taken in order to reach success. As a professional producer, I'm sure you can understand my zeal regarding this issue.

I am CONFIDENT that you will find "XXXXXXXXX" equally as exciting and profitable As I do. Please take the time to review the script. ...You will be glad that you did!

By the way, many of the members of IndieTalk.com forums think I am crazy for doing this. They think I'm completely insane... but many of the world's greatest leaders of creativity were thought to be insane. ...Sometimes miracles DO happen!

Again, Please read the attached script. It will be the best 125 pages you've ever read, I assure you.

Sincerely,
XXXXX Birdman



THIRD RESPONSE FROM PRODUCER:

Your forum friends are correct. You are completely insane. As a matter of fact, I find you rather frightening. I have alerted local law enforcement as to your illegal use of this email address and formally request that you never contact this studio again.


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-Birdman
 
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Ethan Reiff - http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0717550/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1#writer
Cyrus Voris - http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0903456/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1#writer

"Ethan Reiff and Cyrus Voris have been partners as writers and executive producers for many years; they have been writing together since 1987. Though they never met there, Reiff and Voris both attended NYU. They met at a graduation party thrown by a mutual friend, where they learned each was completing feature-length screenplays. They agreed to meet again and swap finished scripts, which they did at a Mets-Reds game, leading to their long-term collaboration from their base in Los Angeles."

They look credentialed.

I think they can write any way they GD please. :yes:
 
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rayw said:
Ethan Reiff - http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0717550/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1#writer
Cyrus Voris - http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0903456/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1#writer

"Ethan Reiff and Cyrus Voris have been partners as writers and executive producers for many years; they have been writing together since 1987. Though they never met there, Reiff and Voris both attended NYU. They met at a graduation party thrown by a mutual friend, where they learned each was completing feature-length screenplays. They agreed to meet again and swap finished scripts, which they did at a Mets-Reds game, leading to their long-term collaboration from their base in Los Angeles."

They look credentialed.

I think they can write any way they GD please. :yes:
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And this quote from Reiff says it all about the writers' lot in the movie industry:

We can't complain because we got paid. Because it was an original screenplay and because there are still a couple of elements from our original material involved, our names are still on the movie as co-writing the story along with Brian Helgeland who gets the sole screenplay credit. And we got paid, and hopefully the movie will be a big success.
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