Reaaally need some help breaking through writing barriers

[ChristopherArter]

Alright,

I'm a first-time filmmaker embarking on my first short film. I come from a digital art / technical background, so I think achieving a high quality image will not be the main challenge to me, as I have a strong background in photography and overall visual composition rules (rule of thirds, tenebrism, etc.) and I've found film shares a ton of the same rules. However....

My Challenge:
The part of this that is challenging me the most is to invent a premise, a context for a script. My heart is in sci-fi, and I'd really like to create a sci-fi script that really speaks to me, I'm just running into cliches everywhere I go. I fell in love with the look & feeling of Blade Runner, the pacing of Christopher Nolan's batman series, and the visual style & film score choices of Joseph Kosinski.

My Question

Should I collaborate to break past this barrier, and find someone who's strengths lay in the core of screen writing? Or should I suck it up and keep wracking my brain for ideas? I feel like at some point I just need to shutup and start shooting, but I'd prefer not to spend my time shooting something I wasn't completely satisfied with..

This short is ultimately going to be part of my application to film school as well, but that's an after thought at the moment.

Thoughts?

 

[rayw]

My Challenge:
The part of this that is challenging me the most is to invent a premise, a context for a script.
Inspired premises' are tough.
May I suggest, for a short, ripping off something else: http://www.indietalk.com/showthread.php?t=47026

My heart is in sci-fi, and I'd really like to create a sci-fi script that really speaks to me, I'm just running into cliches everywhere I go.
Scifi on the cheap is difficult to pull off.
Time travel and clones seem to be the cheapest way to go.
Costumes and sets the most expensive.
GL!

I fell in love with the look & feeling of Blade Runner, the pacing of Christopher Nolan's batman series, and the visual style & film score choices of Joseph Kosinski.
What's that I hear... ? Cash register ringing over and over and over and over?!
Pretty much anticipate all money "invested" into a short is basically like spending money on a party: You'll have memories, a film that likely maybe a couple hundred people will see, and some experience.
Budget your resources wisely.


My Question
Should I collaborate to break past this barrier,
No.
Do it yourself.

and find someone who's strengths lay in the core of screen writing?
Nope.
Screenwriting for yourself, especially for a short, is no big whup.
You'll have the best idea of what reasonable resources you have, including locations, cast & crew, pre & post production equipment, costumes & props, time, and money.
It's just not worth the hassle to seek someone else out that's just a crack-head about pounding out a script to your specs.
Screwit.
DIY, IMHO

Or should I suck it up and keep wracking my brain for ideas?
Definitely.
Again, it's no big whup: http://www.indietalk.com/showthread.php?p=319044#post319044

I feel like at some point I just need to shutup and start shooting,
No. You need to spend ten times the time planning than shooting.
In woodworking the rule of thumb is "measure twice, cut once."
In filmmaking it's more like "spend most of your time planning so that actually shooting is perfunctory, and then spend an equal amount of time promoting and marketing your work."
Seriously.

but I'd prefer not to spend my time shooting something I wasn't completely satisfied with..
Excellent.
It's the perfect POV.
If it's gonna be sh!t, just quit.

But then again, you're going to know every fault and shortcoming that you know went into production, while your audience will see and hear ten things you never noticed.

You can't make EVERYBODY happy all the time, so appeal to the largest group of sensible people.

This short is ultimately going to be part of my application to film school as well, but that's an after thought at the moment.
Make many short shorts rather than one or two long ones.
Every time I pull up a 12min youtube video I groan, and I'm not unique.

Thoughts?

Don't sweat these first few shorts.
But do look for ways to learn from each experience.
Take aways are excellent educational opportunities.

 

[ItDonnedOnMe]

I feel like at some point I just need to shutup and start shooting, but I'd prefer not to spend my time shooting something I wasn't completely satisfied with..

If this is your first short I think you should just start shooting. Let's try some variations...

"I'd like to be an artist, but I'd prefer not to spend my time drawing pictures that aren't perfect"

"I'd like to be a musician, but I'd prefer not to spend my time playing songs that sound like other songs"

"I want to run a marathon, but I'd prefer not to to waste my time running shorter distances"

There will be all kinds of things you won't be satisfied with on your first film, and your second, and on and on - until hopefully someday you're mostly satisfied with your work. But you probably won't ever be completely satisfied with anything you do - that's the curse of the artist, but also what will make you good; it's the drive that results in pushing beyond what other people have done.

Perfection is the enemy of good; in the beginning perfection is the enemy of getting started. And if you never get started you'll never get good.

 

[Zensteve]

Should I collaborate to break past this barrier, and find someone who's strengths lay in the core of screen writing?

Not everyone's a writer.

There are tens of thousands of wannabe script-writers out there, too, looking to have one of their storys produced. Start sifting through them, and you'll find one you like & you're capable of handling.

I fell in love with the look & feeling of Blade Runner (...) and the visual style (...) Joseph Kosinski.

What's your SFX background like? Would you be doing this yourself, or relying on collaboration with an SFX person?

.

 

[ChristopherArter]

Don't sweat these first few shorts.
But do look for ways to learn from each experience.
Take aways are excellent educational opportunities.

Fantastic response, thank you so so much.

As for the budget to create a look/feel simliar to those filmmakers I mentioned, certainly agree. It's mainly certain script pacing (especially Nolan's opening scenes) and the cinematography of Blade Runner (with the anamorphic 2.39 style).

My audio post skills come from recording a looot of music. Music is my background (classical pianist turned indie rocker ). I know foley & sound production are an entirely different animal, I'm just thankful that I'm well familiar with the tools and basic principles of sound. The rest will be a crash course, but a friend of mine works professionally as a sound editor for films in LA, and he's told me any time I need a Q&A, the door is open.


As for the soundtrack, I'm definitely doing that myself. This is an instrumental track I composed that my band is recording vocals for soon, but think I may be using it to score some the film. It's not mixed yet, but you get the idea..
>> https://soundcloud.com/stockholmband/phil-collins-1/s-Mkj62

 

[ItDonnedOnMe]

Great track, I can definitely see that being the basis for sci-fi soundtrack.

 

[A Whitmer]

If you're still stuck, give me a shout. Sometimes you just need a sounding board.

a

 

[Firm1]

Alright,

I'm a first-time filmmaker embarking on my first short film. I come from a digital art / technical background, so I think achieving a high quality image will not be the main challenge to me, as I have a strong background in photography and overall visual composition rules (rule of thirds, tenebrism, etc.) and I've found film shares a ton of the same rules. However....

My Challenge:
The part of this that is challenging me the most is to invent a premise, a context for a script. My heart is in sci-fi, and I'd really like to create a sci-fi script that really speaks to me, I'm just running into cliches everywhere I go. I fell in love with the look & feeling of Blade Runner, the pacing of Christopher Nolan's batman series, and the visual style & film score choices of Joseph Kosinski.

My Question

Should I collaborate to break past this barrier, and find someone who's strengths lay in the core of screen writing? Or should I suck it up and keep wracking my brain for ideas? I feel like at some point I just need to shutup and start shooting, but I'd prefer not to spend my time shooting something I wasn't completely satisfied with..

This short is ultimately going to be part of my application to film school as well, but that's an after thought at the moment.

Thoughts?

Honestly, that's a tough call. I mean, you can learn how to be a good writer, but it takes more than just reading a few books and practicing over and over again. You really have to experience something in your life that's so powerful so as to compel you to express it through writing. In other words, everyone has a lot to say, but not a lot of people have something to say that needs to be expressed and understood by others whom have never felt it. After all, that's what master pieces are all about. Giving the audience something new to enjoy.

I would just find a writer, unless you feel a fire inside that burns so hot, you just have to let it out on paper.

Good luck though. A lot of people, including myself are trying to jump on board the new movement that I personally think will re-define the sci-fi genre. So, you better have a good story that'll wow everyone.

 

[Cracker Funk]

Should I collaborate to break past this barrier, and find someone who's strengths lay in the core of screen writing? Or should I suck it up and keep wracking my brain for ideas?

Yes, and yes. These concepts are not mutually exclusive. Also, shut up and just start shooting.

I really like the advice you've been given here, particularly IDOM's comparisons to other skills that require practice.

You know, there are a lot of filmmakers who have don't consider their true first film to be their first real film. Some filmmakers think of their first few short films as mere practice, leading up to their first "serious" short film. In this respect, you might think of your first few short films as though you're having jam sessions in your basement, with your best friends, while learning to play guitar. And then the first time you actually get on stage to perform, that's your first "serious" short film.

Set a deadline. Soon. Shoot your first film within one week from now. It doesn't have to be more than a couple minutes long, if that. Practice your skills. Keep doing this a few more times. Challenge yourself more and more, with each new project.

By the way, your background will DEFINITELY help you a lot. You've got a huge step-forward from where other first-time filmmakers start. However, the fact that the images move, and you have to film them in a way in which they are able to be edited together, while making sense -- yeah, that's gonna be all new to you, and it's not particularly easy. So, like any skill, you need practice. Might as well get started immediately.

 

[Jack Lynt]

I like CF's yes and yes.

And while I think that the advice you've been given to keep racking your brains and write something yourself is just fine, let me play the Devil's Advocate and offer an alternate view. I'd bet it's also just fine for you to find a writer to work with.

For one thing, I'll bet that there is something to the axiom: Content is King.

Almost certainly true, right?

I think your self-awareness that you've got the technical skills to make pretty pictures and sound is outstanding. And, I believe that your sober awareness that good films are a whole lot more than that is also outstanding.

Of course, as has already been expressed, it's really not required that your first films be good. Maybe it's even best if they are not.

I would hope you wouldn't let finding good collaborators become a hurdle to just getting started. By all means, just get out there and make something. Sam Raimi also recommends that you do so, even if it's crap, and he's Sam Raimi.

On the other hand, after all, there may be dozens of writers on this very forum who would be interested in working with you. Off the top of my head, I think of the talented Nick Clapper and Directorik, to name only two, who have, if I'm not wildly mistaken, expressed interest over the years in working with posters such as yourself, who have all to often come and gone, but who have been looking for writer collaborators.

Don't let it stop you from just getting out there and doing it, even if you have to do it all yourself. But. Isn't it also a truism that filmmaking is a collaborative effort? So, just to round out the advice you've been given, I doubt it's such a bad idea, either, for you to start getting used to collaborating with others now, from the beginning...like with a writer, especially when you're not really into writing.

We don't all have to be writer-directors. We don't all have to be auteurs. It's okay to make it a team effort...if you can find a team.

I think it's a darn good point that trying to make a quality scifi film is the equivalent of turning on the money hose. On the other hand, it is possible with some cleverness, intelligence, and ingenuity to do something good.

Example one. I know I've posted links to this before. I don't actually know what their budget was. Probably not tiny. But I can't believe it was prohibitively huge, either. And I hate to be repetitive or boring or beat a dead horse. But I really think that this is an excellant short. Real quality. Could be an episode of The Twilight Zone or The Outer Limits. It's really good even without any huge set pieces, or big explosions, or motion capture CGI characters etc.

The Un-gone.

Example Two. Then there's Indietalk's very own Wheatgrinder, who made the moving scifi (actually, steampunk) short, Power Up.

Power Up (7-14-2012)

Just saying, a quality scifi short can be done. Go ahead and try. Just...don't try to compete with George Lucas on a 2,000 dollar budget. =)

If you're a money man, and this is about business and career for you before anything else, then maybe you shouldn't try it.

Or, if this is about love, and passion, and creating art and entertainment and expression for you first, then, hey, what the hell, I think you should be able to see that it can be done with some smarts and some hard work.

Good luck!

 

[ChristopherArter]

I like CF's yes and yes.

And while I think that the advice you've been given to keep racking your brains and write something yourself is just fine, let me play the Devil's Advocate and offer an alternate view. I'd bet it's also just fine for you to find a writer to work with.

For one thing, I'll bet that there is something to the axiom: Content is King.

Almost certainly true, right?

I think your self-awareness that you've got the technical skills to make pretty pictures and sound is outstanding. And, I believe that your sober awareness that good films are a whole lot more than that is also outstanding.

Of course, as has already been expressed, it's really not required that your first films be good. Maybe it's even best if they are not.

I would hope you wouldn't let finding good collaborators become a hurdle to just getting started. By all means, just get out there and make something. Sam Raimi also recommends that you do so, even if it's crap, and he's Sam Raimi.

On the other hand, after all, there may be dozens of writers on this very forum who would be interested in working with you. Off the top of my head, I think of the talented Nick Clapper and Directorik, to name only two, who have, if I'm not wildly mistaken, expressed interest over the years in working with posters such as yourself, who have all to often come and gone, but who have been looking for writer collaborators.

Don't let it stop you from just getting out there and doing it, even if you have to do it all yourself. But. Isn't it also a truism that filmmaking is a collaborative effort? So, just to round out the advice you've been given, I doubt it's such a bad idea, either, for you to start getting used to collaborating with others now, from the beginning...like with a writer, especially when you're not really into writing.

We don't all have to be writer-directors. We don't all have to be auteurs. It's okay to make it a team effort...if you can find a team.

I think it's a darn good point that trying to make a quality scifi film is the equivalent of turning on the money hose. On the other hand, it is possible with some cleverness, intelligence, and ingenuity to do something good.

Example one. I know I've posted links to this before. I don't actually know what their budget was. Probably not tiny. But I can't believe it was prohibitively huge, either. And I hate to be repetitive or boring or beat a dead horse. But I really think that this is an excellant short. Real quality. Could be an episode of The Twilight Zone or The Outer Limits. It's really good even without any huge set pieces, or big explosions, or motion capture CGI characters etc.

The Un-gone.

Example Two. Then there's Indietalk's very own Wheatgrinder, who made the moving scifi (actually, steampunk) short, Power Up.

Power Up (7-14-2012)

Just saying, a quality scifi short can be done. Go ahead and try. Just...don't try to compete with George Lucas on a 2,000 dollar budget. =)

If you're a money man, and this is about business and career for you before anything else, then maybe you shouldn't try it.

Or, if this is about love, and passion, and creating art and entertainment and expression for you first, then, hey, what the hell, I think you should be able to see that it can be done with some smarts and some hard work.

Good luck!

Thanks for the feedback!! I enjoyed those shorts.

I feel like I am leaning towards collaborating now. I find that I work far better with a sounding board to bounce off of. I've bounced the idea of Quantum off of my gf even (she's a movie buff as well) and it's yielded some fruitful ideas for the short.

By the way, the idea for Quantum (generally) is loosely based on theories of quantum physics, specifically the idea of infinite possibilities. The short opens with the death of our protagonist's wife, Emma, from an uknown illness. After her death, the protagonist (James Locke) is employed by a company to jump from reality to reality, or time to time, in search of certain people that pose a threat to the corporation.

Upon one of his jumps, in pursuit of one of these individuals, he finds his wife. That's where the short ends.

The idea is that I'd potentially like to turn it into a feature, if the short is compelling enough to leave my audience wanting to know more..

Anyway, thank you all for the advice.. I think I will look for a screenwriter to bounce ideas off of.

 

[Jack Lynt]

Hmmmm. I have to say, the premise sounds intriguing. =)

 

[lukespook]

Screen Writing Success

Nearly everyone I know wants to learn how to become a screen writer, but you are actually doing it. Good on you for following your dream.

There must be many ways to keep the idea's flowing, and it is probably a good idea to live the character that you are writing about. Look at what Jim Carrey did with Ace Ventura, he actually lived the character day in and day out, just to get it right.

Good luck..

 

[ChristopherArter]

Thanks! It's becoming a really great learning experience. I didn't think I'd enjoy it as much as I have been actually..

Look at what Jim Carrey did with Ace Ventura, he actually lived the character day in and day out, just to get it right.

That must have been really annoying haha

 

[Modern Day Myth Prod. LLC]

If your heart is into being a sci-fi script writer, start by building a library of sci-fi scripts and matching films on DVD to learn from the masters. It is like learning to ride a bicycle. You start with training wheels until you get the hang of it to take the training wheels off.

 

[WalterB]

First: good luck!
Both pros and cons are discussed enough I guess.

My advice: go ahead!

In the meantime: make some very very short things (1 or 2 characters only) to get some hands on experience with shooting and editing. Maybe just focus on a certain atmosphere, a certain look, a dialogue, a simple idea, whatever...
Do this to have something to show when you want to get a cast and crew together.

And when you get stuck ask someone to help out. Just like you are already doing with your girlfriend.

 

[VictorSW1974]

There are a lot of "writer-directors" who are talented at directing but weak in the writing area. But they are so tied up with the idea of being a "auteur" and getting credit for all the creativity that they wont do the mature thing and seek out a co-writer or collaborator.

I have been hanging with a producer/director team from NYC who have 55 grand of personal funds and a terrific idea for a science fiction film---a "heavy" concept similar to DEATHWATCH or THE LATHE OF HEAVEN. We got together because they read a script of mine that my agent offered to their producer partners and liked it. The director is flat honest about wanting a co-writer because his writing skills are strong with story and plot, but he is weaker at characterization and dialogue.