As I am a composer I deal mostly with composition and audio however I have lots of equipment for live recording and I wanted to help a friend record audio while shooting. My question is this: What is the best way to record Audio while the camera is rolling? I have lots of pro gear that will be set up on site, is it best to record it outside of the camera (direct into computer)? If so, how do I go about syncing the audio to the video? Any ideas or comments are welcome. I have all the required gear, just need some opinions on how to make it professional.
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Question for syncing audio to film
- Thread starter C.Adley
- Start date
What equipment do you have that is appropriate for doing production sound?
What kind of camera will be used?
A few more details would be a great help!
What kind of camera will be used?
A few more details would be a great help!
I am not sure of the camera type, I know its HD, so it is up to date. I will get back to you on that.
As for equipment, I have a computer that will be on site with 10 channels of audio all with compressors, preamps and anything else that might be required. I have adapters of all types, I dont know if any cables are used for syncing such as midi or voltage, so any info on that would be great. I use the new Logic as a DAW and editing.
Hope this helps.
As for equipment, I have a computer that will be on site with 10 channels of audio all with compressors, preamps and anything else that might be required. I have adapters of all types, I dont know if any cables are used for syncing such as midi or voltage, so any info on that would be great. I use the new Logic as a DAW and editing.
Hope this helps.
I take it that you have never done production sound before.
First, it's all about capturing the dialog as cleanly as possible.
Second, unless your director/producer is a sound "fanatic" you'll get all of two minutes to get set before they are ready to shoot, so you won't have time to adjust a whole lot of gear. At the low/no/micro budget level you are going to be doing a fair amount of "run & gun" so you have to be mobile.
Third, production sound should be recorded raw - no compression, no limiting, no EQ - so you can leave all that stuff at home. Also, you will probably not have electricity when you shoot outdoors.
Production sound for film/video is a completely different gig than working in the studio or performing on stage. The key, unless you're working on a "Hollywood" budget, is K.I.S.S. - Keep It Simple, Stupid. With only two exceptions all of my low/no/micro budget shoots have been one or two mics into a field mixer fed directly to the camera.
The production sound kit I usually use is:
Sennheiser MKH-416 shotgun mic (outdoors)
Sennheiser MKH-40 condenser mic (indoors)
Sound Devices 302 mixer (fed directly to the camera)
Two (2) Audio-Technica 1820 series wireless receiver/transmitters with Countryman B-6 lavs
K-Tek wired boom-pole
Plus all of the cases, cables, shockmounts, extra batteries, etc.
The whole job is to get the cleanest dialog possible while staying out of the frame, so you have to boom and mix on the fly as the scene unfolds. You may want to check out the following resources on production sound:
http://filmmakeriq.com/production/audio/anatomy-of-an-audio-bag.html
filmsound.org
jwsound.net
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.movies.production.sound/topics?hl=en
http://www.equipmentemporium.com/
First, it's all about capturing the dialog as cleanly as possible.
Second, unless your director/producer is a sound "fanatic" you'll get all of two minutes to get set before they are ready to shoot, so you won't have time to adjust a whole lot of gear. At the low/no/micro budget level you are going to be doing a fair amount of "run & gun" so you have to be mobile.
Third, production sound should be recorded raw - no compression, no limiting, no EQ - so you can leave all that stuff at home. Also, you will probably not have electricity when you shoot outdoors.
Production sound for film/video is a completely different gig than working in the studio or performing on stage. The key, unless you're working on a "Hollywood" budget, is K.I.S.S. - Keep It Simple, Stupid. With only two exceptions all of my low/no/micro budget shoots have been one or two mics into a field mixer fed directly to the camera.
The production sound kit I usually use is:
Sennheiser MKH-416 shotgun mic (outdoors)
Sennheiser MKH-40 condenser mic (indoors)
Sound Devices 302 mixer (fed directly to the camera)
Two (2) Audio-Technica 1820 series wireless receiver/transmitters with Countryman B-6 lavs
K-Tek wired boom-pole
Plus all of the cases, cables, shockmounts, extra batteries, etc.
The whole job is to get the cleanest dialog possible while staying out of the frame, so you have to boom and mix on the fly as the scene unfolds. You may want to check out the following resources on production sound:
http://filmmakeriq.com/production/audio/anatomy-of-an-audio-bag.html
filmsound.org
jwsound.net
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.movies.production.sound/topics?hl=en
http://www.equipmentemporium.com/
The sync point is usually the sharp sound of the "clapper". But if you don't have that, it's usually not hard to 'eyeball' where the audio and image should meet. I'm not sure about this, but I suspect there is a way that some digital recorders can be synced to the camera's timecode... am I correct Alcove, or am I just dreaming!?
I'm not a production audio person, just another composer. Alcove is the one who seems to know his shiz!
I'm not a production audio person, just another composer. Alcove is the one who seems to know his shiz!
That's the way it's been done since film went from silent to talkies.
That's the way to do it if you have the budget. The audio recorder has to be able to receive time code which is usually generated by the camera or can be generated by a central TC clock (to which the camera would also sync). Then you could also use a digital clapper.
. That sure helps. Looks like I only need to dump about $500 to get started. Thanks again for all of your help.
Plus the digital recorder case, the boom pole, the shock mount, blimp, dead cat and the shotgun mic you probably don't have...
If I can jump in with another question... Is there a reason besides simplicity not to record to an external (dat-esque) devise? I'm doing a project where I am going to be using several different cameras and I was planning on getting an external sound recorder just to make sure things were consistent... Bad plan? if so, why?
Good plan. The audio remains consistent and you have made an investment in your future.
Recording directly to the camera is what you do if you don't have any idea what you're doing, or don't have the budget for a separate audio recorder. You are on the right track.
only element left out here is TimeCode on the external Recorder.
Time Code is generated for sound from the recorder, NOT THE CAMERA, never has been.
you will need to know what framrate the camera will be running and this will determine the TimeCode you will use in the recorder. you will not need a Smart Slate, but it is better if you can, any slate will work.
many new small HD cameras today, shoot using 24p framerate to try to mimic a more film look. you will need a recorder that can do 23.976 NDF time code for this.
if shooting 29.97 frame rate in camera...no big deal..you can record on almost any digital recorder without time code.
Time Code is generated for sound from the recorder, NOT THE CAMERA, never has been.
you will need to know what framrate the camera will be running and this will determine the TimeCode you will use in the recorder. you will not need a Smart Slate, but it is better if you can, any slate will work.
many new small HD cameras today, shoot using 24p framerate to try to mimic a more film look. you will need a recorder that can do 23.976 NDF time code for this.
if shooting 29.97 frame rate in camera...no big deal..you can record on almost any digital recorder without time code.
Some of things to add:
Studio mics usually pic up a cardiod/hypercardiod pattern. For movie recording, you generally want a unidirectional mic. It's surprising what some mics pic up, including the low noise of the camera and reflections off of back walls. You don't want anything from behind you. You want to isolate the dialogue and the best way is to get that mic nice and close to the actor's mouth. The farther back you get, the more room noise or reflections you're going to get.
If you are recording to a computer, you need backup!!! Drives crash at the worst times, and are more susceptible on portable units. Back everything up to Jump Drives or USB Drives. I would try and do this after every scene.
Less experienced filmmakers tend to shoot wide and not get as many closeups. Suggest to your director on getting sound takes in closeup. This is when you can really get that mic up close. I have a boom pole and shock mount, but I usually don't have crew, so I use a boom stand and closeups to get all of my audio. Usually that audio can be easily cut into the edit, where wide shots are used.
When in doubt, record another take with the actors, even if the camera isn't rolling. Your the one with the headphones, so you'll know when you are getting solid takes or not.
Monitoring is crucial. Listen for line hums, overhead lights, AC/Heater units, refrigerators, computers (!) and anything that doesn't belong. Eliminate those sounds by turning things off or unplugging.
Outside, you will probably encounter wind, airplanes and other unwanted ambient noise. I recommend one of those fuzzy wind mufflers and keep a large piece of cardboard or wood, in case you need to block wind. Just be sure to not place it where you hear sound bouncing off of it.
For boat, car or other loud scenes, be sure and get the dialogue, after the engines are off. While it can be dubbed, later, it's best to get as much source sound as possible. Also, the actors are still in character and will sound more natural than in a studio.
At the beginning of every scene, tell everyone to be quiet, so you can get 30 - 60 seconds of "room tone." Every room/setting has its own ambient noise, so capture that, for remixing later.
You will notice that after you set a nominal level for a scene, that actors will tend to yell and distort the audio. Use a backup track with a lower input level, so that there isn't distortion, even at yelling volume. During post, the editor can use this backup level track.
To sum up:
1. Monitor for unwanted sound
2. Use a unidirectional mic, preferably with a boom pole and shock mount.
3. Get room tone
4. Set dual or more levels for gunshots, yells, etc.
5. Use a clapboard to sync things up.
6. Get close mic'd audio of dialogue, usually between 1' - 3' from mouth.
7. Back up the audio
Studio mics usually pic up a cardiod/hypercardiod pattern. For movie recording, you generally want a unidirectional mic. It's surprising what some mics pic up, including the low noise of the camera and reflections off of back walls. You don't want anything from behind you. You want to isolate the dialogue and the best way is to get that mic nice and close to the actor's mouth. The farther back you get, the more room noise or reflections you're going to get.
If you are recording to a computer, you need backup!!! Drives crash at the worst times, and are more susceptible on portable units. Back everything up to Jump Drives or USB Drives. I would try and do this after every scene.
Less experienced filmmakers tend to shoot wide and not get as many closeups. Suggest to your director on getting sound takes in closeup. This is when you can really get that mic up close. I have a boom pole and shock mount, but I usually don't have crew, so I use a boom stand and closeups to get all of my audio. Usually that audio can be easily cut into the edit, where wide shots are used.
When in doubt, record another take with the actors, even if the camera isn't rolling. Your the one with the headphones, so you'll know when you are getting solid takes or not.
Monitoring is crucial. Listen for line hums, overhead lights, AC/Heater units, refrigerators, computers (!) and anything that doesn't belong. Eliminate those sounds by turning things off or unplugging.
Outside, you will probably encounter wind, airplanes and other unwanted ambient noise. I recommend one of those fuzzy wind mufflers and keep a large piece of cardboard or wood, in case you need to block wind. Just be sure to not place it where you hear sound bouncing off of it.
For boat, car or other loud scenes, be sure and get the dialogue, after the engines are off. While it can be dubbed, later, it's best to get as much source sound as possible. Also, the actors are still in character and will sound more natural than in a studio.
At the beginning of every scene, tell everyone to be quiet, so you can get 30 - 60 seconds of "room tone." Every room/setting has its own ambient noise, so capture that, for remixing later.
You will notice that after you set a nominal level for a scene, that actors will tend to yell and distort the audio. Use a backup track with a lower input level, so that there isn't distortion, even at yelling volume. During post, the editor can use this backup level track.
To sum up:
1. Monitor for unwanted sound
2. Use a unidirectional mic, preferably with a boom pole and shock mount.
3. Get room tone
4. Set dual or more levels for gunshots, yells, etc.
5. Use a clapboard to sync things up.
6. Get close mic'd audio of dialogue, usually between 1' - 3' from mouth.
7. Back up the audio
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I use a external mackie sound mixer for capturing audio from a boom mike and input it directly to my xha1. Seems very clear when using a good front end mike and boom. In addition the sound mixing board tends to have better input electronics vs what the camera has built in. You can use a external DAT but they tend to have their own timecode and tend to drift. I use a clapper board all the time so when I edit i know exactly what take and scene I shot for post. If you don't have one, people tend to just slap their hands after they do a verbal slate to help in post. And a verbal slate is necessary for each take if you intend to record to a external devise, otherwise you will not be able to tell where your at when your in post. The only other you need to record is room tone for every major set change. Only dialog is to be recorded, everything else can be added in post using SFX.
You'll make life easier on yourself if you record audio along with the image.. that's totally doable on the HV30, just pick up a beachtek adapter so you can use xlr mics. 