Question about film-schools and is it worth it

[kenyappers]

Hello. First and foremost I'd like to apologize as this would be a long post, and also if there are any (which most probably be plenty) grammatical errors, sorry!

That aside, I'm a 20 year old student from the country of Malaysia who is currently studying my first-year degree in International Trade and Marketing in a local private university. Getting right into it, I'm very keen on switching my course into film-making (in a film school) as I'm really passionate and keen on working things creatively and I'd love to learn more about film-making/cinematography/videography. Though I have to admit that I have no background of working with any heavy projects in terms of filming/post-production. In fact, I've only played around with Premiere Pro no more than 10 times editing minor videos for any school work that required me filming a video presentation. Truth be told, I think it's just the passion that's really driving me, I hate to see myself continuing my studies in a business degree knowing all the time I find absolutely no joy in studying. Now, being your typical asian parents, they weren't so receptive to the idea of me switching courses to one such as 'film-making' as they could pretty much tell that it's not something that could 'support my future' and it was a tad bit risky (seeing circumstances in our local film industry). But I reassured them that creative work is much more (maybe?) appreciated in the western countries and that if I made connections during my studying it would benefit me more in the future. Even after saying that, I wasn't very sure if that was even true. On top of that, I even asked if I could perhaps even study in a film-school in the States. But as a Malaysian, it would be costly for me to even live there, let alone study.

With all that being said, I have some questions that I would love it if it could be answered in this forum, which are:

1. Is a studying in a film school abroad worth it?

2. Is creative work such as film-making/cinematography/videography really much more recognized and appreciated in the Western countries?

3. If so, are there any College/Universities you'd recommend worth checking out?

Additional question: Am I actually too old to start learning basics? (Age 20)

Thank you for your time!

 

[jrusso]

That's about as insulting as someone saying, "So you bought into the Full Sail BS, hook, line and sinker".

Aha, now you actually see what I've been telling you. This kid is definitely NO angel.

Ever see a fight begin with one guy instigating the other guy until the other guy finally punches the shit out of the instigator, and the instigator turns around and shouts, "See that, this guy just hit me for no reason."

That's the wonder that is SkyCopeland

 

[GuerrillaAngel]

no its not worth it, use the money to make a couple of shorts, you'll learn more from that than you will film school.

This.

-----

The reason so many film schools exists is because there is an endless supply of suckers willing to fork out cash for a dream that can't really be bought.

After you grad film school, you'll owe so much debt for a degree that will be next to useless to quickly getting a high paying job needed to pay the debt off.

Not only will you not only never direct a feature film, you won't have the time or funds to do your own film on the side.

Instead of film school, make your own small films with your own money then decide on a plan.

Good luck.

 

[jrusso]

This.

-----

The reason so many film schools exists is because there is an endless supply of suckers willing to fork out cash for a dream that can't really be bought.

After you grad film school, you'll owe so much debt for a degree that will be next to useless to quickly getting a high paying job needed to pay the debt off.

Not only will you not only never direct a feature film, you won't have the time or funds to do your own film on the side.

Instead of film school, make your own small films with your own money then decide on a plan.

Good luck.

Stop it with all your sense making. We want the dream for $30,000, which results in wage garnishments 5 years down the road when we can't make our payments. We want to be the guy who gets ostracized on a film set of indie filmmakers because our mouths are writing checks our experience just can't cash.

 

[SkyCopeland]

Stop it with all your sense making. We want the dream for $30,000, which results in wage garnishments 5 years down the road when we can't make our payments. We want to be the guy who gets ostracized on a film set of indie filmmakers because our mouths are writing checks our experience just can't cash.

EDIT: Nevermind. I decided to simply ignore the slander overall. Glad I found the site has a way to block people.

OP;; do what you want, most people who are against film school are those who have never attended it... So who do you want advise from about Film School? People who actually invested in it or people who simply shit talk it?

 

[kenyappers]

Okay, wow. Never knew I'd get this much response. And honestly I wasn't aware that a post such as this would spark up a war. I'd like to apologize for that. I really appreciate the feedback from both ends.

Yes, I understand that the skill-sets are obtainable regardless of whether I learn it in film-school, as most of you can agree that experience is the best teacher. With that being said, many of you here mentioned that it's better to just take the money and actually start doing the filming work on doing some shorts.

Now, my train of thought was just plainly simple before posting this: Study abroad for this line of work = good. Why? It's much more recognized and appreciated (apart from my country). Also, the opportunity of making good networking among people are far more beneficial (and as little as I know I have very strong stand in this).

These 2 things are the what drives me to ask those 3 questions in my main post in the first place.

Sorry for not making things clear.

 

[GuerrillaAngel]

OP;; do what you want, most people who are against film school are those who have never attended it... So who do you want advise from about Film School? People who actually invested in it or people who simply shit talk it?

Likewise, people who are against homeopathic products have never bought any.

Why not let the OP make up his own mind?

 

[WalterB]

The main question is: what do you expect from a film school.
If you think the roads will be paved with gold once you graduated, reality can be tough...
Your success after film school really depends on the effort you put into your education and the friends you made.
One of the benefits of a film school is that you must make stuff and that it is your education, so you don't have to spend time on math, reading medical books, etc. In other words: if you don't have to work to make money, you can spend 100% of your time to filmmaking. This makes sure you will gain experience by doing.
Another benefit is access to tools to make videos and peers.

I went to art school to study audiovisual design.
Art school is a bit different, because during the first year the education is very broad: drawing, painting, sculpting. Only 1 day was dedicated to filmmaking. Nevertheless, during that first year I made 8 shorts. Were they perfect? No. But I learnt a lot.
And untill graduation there were also art and cultural history classes that weren't film related (but I think that was an enrichment), plus I could choose classes on the fringes of filmmaking: interaction design, programming, 3D modelling...

So, in short: I don't regret going to art school.
Short disclaimer: education in The Netherlands isn't as expensive as in the US, because the Dutch government still believes that accessible education is for the good of everyone.

Comparing watching DVDs to having to produce a video from scratch in 3 weeks is a bit silly. After watching those DVDs you still have to put in the effort to make skills out of what you have heard.


Topics like this are always causing discussions.
Why?
Everyone is (or at least most people are) defending their own choices.

 

[jrusso]

Okay, wow. Never knew I'd get this much response. And honestly I wasn't aware that a post such as this would spark up a war. I'd like to apologize for that. I really appreciate the feedback from both ends.

Yes, I understand that the skill-sets are obtainable regardless of whether I learn it in film-school, as most of you can agree that experience is the best teacher. With that being said, many of you here mentioned that it's better to just take the money and actually start doing the filming work on doing some shorts.

Now, my train of thought was just plainly simple before posting this: Study abroad for this line of work = good. Why? It's much more recognized and appreciated (apart from my country). Also, the opportunity of making good networking among people are far more beneficial (and as little as I know I have very strong stand in this).

These 2 things are the what drives me to ask those 3 questions in my main post in the first place.

Sorry for not making things clear.

Your train of thought seems to be the correct path. From my personal experience, filmschool students end up having to do the same thing that non-filmschool students do. They have to gain/earn experience, but the filmschool students I've met in my life are actually stunted in their development when they have to make those huge payments back to their filmschool, and thus they get desperate and start acting cocky / arrogant because, "I WENT TO FILMSCHOOL." All along not realizing that that doesn't mean anything to the rest of the filmmaking world.

Filmschool is like Amway... They only show you what they want to show you... which are the success stories, and they blame the people who don't have success, for being lazy and unambitious, which just isn't the case. Making it big in film is alot about luck and knowing people. Filmschool is a $30,000 gamble you don't have to make. There is NO evidence to support that filmschool will enhance your LUCK in making the right connections in the film industry. In fact, it may even hurt your chances considering alot of the guys who invest in films don't even have college degrees and realize that the genuine creative types, don't typically have degrees either. Film isn't about a degree... It's about passion and creativity. If you have that, you'll do far better than the filmschool guys who have none.

 

[jrusso]

Short disclaimer: education in The Netherlands isn't as expensive as in the US, because the Dutch government still believes that accessible education is for the good of everyone.

Yes, this is an unfortunate reality of living in America. My wife's brother went to Law School in Romania and it only cost him a few thousand. However, in Romania, a Lawyer only earns just under $700/mo, due to their economy. I'm guessing it's all relative.

However, getting his education in Romania for law, he can pass the bar in another country and potentially earn far greater. He's just not motivated to practice law.

 

[jrusso]

EDIT: Nevermind. I decided to simply ignore the slander overall. Glad I found the site has a way to block people.

"Slander?" What? I wasn't even talking to you in that comment. My other comments would hardly be considered slanderous. Wow!

Personally, I think you're a punk kid who goes around kicking hornets nests and then cries about the storm of bees he stirs up. You're a "filmschool elitist." And a pretty rude/arrogant one at that.

Good riddance.

 

[Sweetie]

It's about passion and creativity. If you have that, you'll do far better than the filmschool guys who have none.

The real question though. If someone is truly destined to succeed in the industry but don't yet have the skills, what is the best path? I believe it depends on the individual.

Most film graduates are hopeless, though there are some very talented individuals who make the most of film school and end up greater than the sum of their tuition.

The same goes for those who study outside the system. There are many who think they've read a book or two on writing or directing and think they're the next Shane Black or Spielberg.

There is an additional method of the school of hard knocks. Get out there and gain practical experience. It works for some people, doesn't for others.

There are benefits of all of the methods listed above. I personally think the best benefit comes from a combination of them all.

 

[WalterB]

......Film isn't about a degree... It's about passion and creativity. If you have that, you'll do far better than the filmschool guys who have none.

Without passion and creativity you won't get into film school or art school in here in the first place...

 

[sfoster]

I can speak to this issue IMO because I taught myself coding from a very young age. Spent 6 years coding including two professional jobs before I started college and earning my computer science degree. So in my field I am both self-taught as well as school-educated.

There are absolutely classes that would bore me to tears. I don't think I would have done that stuff and learned it without the school forcing me to. And I was always happy in the end when it finished, I knew I had learned something.

But in my senior year this one dude from my class asked me the most basic inheritance question you could imagine and I was totally baffled how this guy had made it as far along in the program I had. I really worked hard and struggled through some of those classes (one of mine had about a 25% pass rate), and here is this dude as a senior that knows less than I did as a freshman. Some people are hopeless with or without school.

Now that I'm an adult and I've been through college I have developed those skills to study independently and push through the dry stuff. I don't need film school as much as I would have if i were 18. Sure it would be great to have a mentor, that would reduce my learning curve. You'll get there faster - that is what money does! It saves you time. If you've got 30k yeah spend it and you'll save yourself a year or two perhaps. If that payoff is worth it to you.

But I don't need it. I have some goddamn brilliant ideas and I am going to see them on screen if that's the last thing I do with my life. A piece of paper isn't going to stop me.

 

[jrusso]

I can speak to this issue IMO because I taught myself coding from a very young age. Spent 6 years coding including two professional jobs before I started college and earning my computer science degree. So in my field I am both self-taught as well as school-educated.

There are absolutely classes that would bore me to tears. I don't think I would have done that stuff and learned it without the school forcing me to. And I was always happy in the end when it finished, I knew I had learned something.

But in my senior year this one dude from my class asked me the most basic inheritance question you could imagine and I was totally baffled how this guy had made it as far along in the program I had. I really worked hard and struggled through some of those classes (one of mine had about a 25% pass rate), and here is this dude as a senior that knows less than I did as a freshman. Some people are hopeless with or without school.

Now that I'm an adult and I've been through college I have developed those skills to study independently and push through the dry stuff. I don't need film school as much as I would have if i were 18. Sure it would be great to have a mentor, that would reduce my learning curve. You'll get there faster - that is what money does! It saves you time. If you've got 30k yeah spend it and you'll save yourself a year or two perhaps. If that payoff is worth it to you.

But I don't need it. I have some goddamn brilliant ideas and I am going to see them on screen if that's the last thing I do with my life. A piece of paper isn't going to stop me.

Very well put.

I too am a self educated software engineer. However, I've taken the college required classes after the fact, and I agree you need both self determination, and schooling to be an effective developer.

Filmschool isn't even the same animal though.

 

[jrusso]

Without passion and creativity you won't get into film school or art school in here in the first place...

You just need to pay the money here in America. I assure you, it's solely fiduciary.

 

[jrusso]

Most film graduates are hopeless, though there are some very talented individuals who make the most of film school and end up greater than the sum of their tuition.

Yes, but they all pay their dues pretty much the same after film school. In the end, it comes down to shooting on a low/micro budget, and proving yourself. No filmschool will ever change that.

 

[sfoster]

Very well put.

I too am a self educated software engineer. However, I've taken the college required classes after the fact, and I agree you need both self determination, and schooling to be an effective developer.

Filmschool isn't even the same animal though.

How many books have you read on film making?
I'm probably at like 16 I think. Not an astronomical number but I've covered every subject at least in some capacity.

There were a couple dry ones out there with important information.
The color correction handbook.. starts off interesting but then ooh man does it trail off into a technical land of boredom. if you can't force yourself to study it and absorb it irregardless then you're the kind of person that needs film school.

I'd still like to read a book dedicated to audio post processing. hasn't happened just yet. I imagine i'll hate every minute of it


yes i just used the word irregardless. lol i usually don't go there but it seemed to have a better flow

 

[jrusso]

How many books have you read on film making?
I'm probably at like 16 I think. Not an astronomical number but I've covered every subject at least in some capacity.

There were a couple dry ones out there with important information.
The color correction handbook.. starts off interesting but then ooh man does it trail off into a technical land of boredom. if you can't force yourself to study it and absorb it irregardless then you're the kind of person that needs film school.

I'd still like to read a book dedicated to audio post processing. hasn't happened just yet. I imagine i'll hate every minute of it


yes i just used the word irregardless. lol i usually don't go there but it seemed to have a better flow

I have a huge tip for you about technical books... Just like MSDN, no one memorizes every detail of the MSDN knowledge base, but they refer to it when they need to understand say what namespace a specific class exists in, or what methods are available in a class...

You couldn't possibly be expected, in the course of two years in college, to memorize that crap, and it was never expected of me in my courses anyways. Not to mention, software changes way too fast for you to keep up.

Same with audio post production. You refer back to books, and more recently in the past few years, to Google when you need a piece of technical data. Most of my research has been from blogs and online audio post processing articles. Basically managing your resources.

So, learn the theory behind everything and use your technical manuals/books as resources when you need them.

 

[sfoster]

I have a huge tip for you about technical books... Just like MSDN, no one memorizes every detail of the MSDN knowledge base, but they refer to it when they need to understand say what namespace a specific class exists in, or what methods are available in a class...

You couldn't possibly be expected, in the course of two years in college, to memorize that crap, and it was never expected of me in my courses anyways. Not to mention, software changes way too fast for you to keep up.

Same with audio post production. You refer back to books, and more recently in the past few years, to Google when you need a piece of technical data. Most of my research has been from blogs and online audio post processing articles. Basically managing your resources.

So, learn the theory behind everything and use your technical manuals/books as resources when you need them.

I'll tell you a little something about the school I went to. it was one of the top 10 colleges for comp sci in the nation.

my computer architecture class had tests that were 50 pages long and impossible to finish. Literally impossible. It was graded on a curve based on who could answer the most questions the fastest and your hand hurt like hell when the midterm and final were over.

You had to memorize the whole goddamn book. how a pipeline works, risc vs cisc. all that shit.

and some of that is what has paid off for me the most.
I've looked at code that people worked on for months and in 5 seconds spotted and removed their largest bottleneck.

and to think that other guy had a college degree too.
He probably just uses the book as a reference point

 

[sfoster]

Some people are okay just getting by.

That's not me. My ego is way too huge for that
I want to be the best alive.