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Question about doing a sound mix.

H

harmonica44

The last short film I did, the sound mix cost a few thousand dollars and to get to sound good, and I took a hit... which is one of the reasons which I haven't done another one since. I was told on here to do a zero budget short, and just do the sound mix myself, but I haven been playing around with a lot of trial and error and find the sound mixing difficult to do.

I was able to learn a lot video editing and color grading on my own and feel I have gotten better in that department. But I find myself still struggling on how to do a sound mix. I got that book that was recommended to me on here before, "Dialogue Editing for Motion Pictures: A Guide to the Invisible Art".

But I felt the book was more of a history lesson in dialogue editing, rather than giving actual instructions that would apply to a modern system. Plus of course, I want to do the whole mix, and not just the dialogue. Does anyone have suggestions on how to learn this stuff better, or any books that would help me do it on my own? Thanks for any input. I really appreciate it.
 
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You're gonna get the same exact answers as every other answer we've given. We don't know what we're working with unless you give us something to work with. Most of us don't actually know what your foundation of filmmaking is. We have to know your ability to give an ounce of useful advice.
 
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By making a very short short and run into problems and solve them.

See, you were told to do a zero budget short for a reason. One of them is that you lack the insight to make budget decisions when you have zero experience.
You were so eager in your pursuit for a shortcut to Hollywood you were blinded by it and made costly decisions.

Make short things and you'll see you'll learn by doing.
I managed to do the soundmixing for the first time during my first 'real' short. Was it perfect? No.
We were a team of 4 and spent €30,- each on our first short to buy cardboard and paint to make our own traffic signs. That's all. No hiring of professionals to polish our first tird.

Actually, the first time I turned to a professional to do anything for me, was indeed for sound, but it was 5 years and over 30 projects later. He mastered the sound of one of graduation films.

Go make a video. Run into problems and try to fix them yourself.
Having made only 1 short and 2 halfbaked videos in more than 5 years only results in you asking more or less the same questions as 5 years ago, because you think you need and even can accumulate all this theoretical knowledge without practical experience to give it any relevant context.

The question on almost every question you can ask know will be: make something.
 
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Okay thanks. I didn't make costly decisions to get to Hollywood right away, it's because the cast and crew wanted to see a finished product and I wanted to make a good impression on them, so they would hopefully want to work with me again.

It would be the same thing this time, I wanna make a good impression on the people involved. I don't want to make a movie knowing the sound is going to turn them off.

Mainly my problems in post are I have trouble making the sounds, sound like they are the correct distance from the point of view, of the camera. And I also have problems with making them sound like they are coming from the correct direction. So that is what I wanted to work on, correction and distance.

Since I am still learning, perhaps what I could do this time when recording sound effects, is cheat a little and try to record them in the correct distance, during production, so it save on post production mixing a little hopefully.
 
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No, but you embarked on a large short right away.
If you had done something much smaller that could have been shot in 1 or 2 days, you would have encountered the same thing, but the loss for the team would be less while your burden to fix it would have been smaller.
 
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You keep trying to impress others, it's been in a few of your posts. You don't want actors to walk off because the script is cheesy, or crew to walk off because of sound, or whatever. And you don't want to direct a bad story and ruin your reputation (you have also stated). Right now you have 0 reputation, so it's only up from here right? Just get out there and make films man. Why does this feel like 2008 all over again? :lol: I give up.
 
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I guess I mean 2011 since you signed up then but it seem much longer. :rofl:

Go make a film, and make some more mistakes! That's how you learn!
 
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Yeah, you're right, I just hate the film turning out to suck and then drive away even more cast and crew from future projects. I guess I am just afraid I will run out of people to work with, cause of bad reputation of making poor quality shorts.

One thing I am trying to figure out how to do a lot of the sound mixing while shooting, so it doesn't have to be done in post so much. Like if I could learn how to assign the direction that the sound is coming from while shooting that will save a lot of time in post.
 
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Maybe that is small town syndrome but please, do NOT worry about that. You MUST fail to succeed! If you don't fail, then that is even better. But you can't be afraid of it because you are letting it inhibit you.
 
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harmonica44 said:
Yeah, you're right, I just hate the film turning out to suck and then drive away even more cast and crew from future projects. I guess I am just afraid I will run out of people to work with, cause of bad reputation of making poor quality shorts.

One thing I am trying to figure out how to do a lot of the sound mixing while shooting, so it doesn't have to be done in post so much. Like if I could learn how to assign the direction that the sound is coming from while shooting that will save a lot of time in post.
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Pfffffft, don't try to mix on set.
Don't worry about the direction of sound on set.
You overcomplicate things.

My very first video has never been finished: the computer died before we could figure out how to properly score it.
We used Lego and a shitty webcam. We only have a crappy trailer to show for it.
You know what: the people I made that with are still my best friends 17 year later.

Remember your first drawing ever?
 
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What? We all hate you now!!!!!

Not.

Those afraid to fail will never prevail.

Shit, has that been coined before? If not please credit me.
 
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You won't ever know unless you try, right?

This reminds me of a time when my cousin was still in college and in the theater department. He asked a few of a his classmates if they could be in one of our projects. A majority turned down for the fact that they've never seen our stuff. Once my cousin was able to show off our ability, people started jumping on. Have you tried a community college? Most actors will just want experience.

Your shorts will be your audition tape. Rarely can you expect to go into a casting call and get the lead role on your first try. You have to keep trying and trying in order to figure out where your strength and weaknesses are.
 
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For sure I want to do it, I just want to get as much right as done as possible, which is why I thought about maybe instead of using just a field recorder, I could get a field mixer on set.

That for example of I am recording an OTS shot, with the actor on the right side of the screen, I can mix the channels so it's already recorded with him being at the right side of the screen, channel wise, to begin with, rather than doing a whole mix in post, of mono only recorded sounds.
 
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So, you can't find someone to hold the boom, but you want to mix in the field.
You make zero sense.
I never, ever heard about someone balancing left right in a field mixer for anything but a live broadcast of a band or orchestra.

You seek a solution that is more complicated then doing it in post.
The fact that you don't know how to do it, doesn't mean you can't learn to.
 
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The last short film I did, the sound mix cost a few thousand dollars
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The last film? You mean your first and only?

and you spend thousands on one area of your student film? While you have the right to spend your money wherever you choose, what comes to mind is, "A fool and his money are soon parted."

I didn't make costly decisions to get to Hollywood right away
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This is what happens when you fail to listen and do it the "h44 way". You go broke early, fail to learn and become too paranoid to fail.

I just hate the film turning out to suck and then drive away even more cast and crew from future projects. I guess I am just afraid I will run out of people to work with, cause of bad reputation of making poor quality shorts.
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Guess you're going to have to choose between making mistakes or not being a filmmaker. Cast and crew prefer to work with those who make films. While the cast and crew are clamoring to work with the worst filmmaker in existence, you'll be on the other side of the fence, explaining your excuses to your imaginary friends why you can't make films.

What? We all hate you now!!!!!

Not.
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Speak for yourself. He's made me consider taking up Waterboarding as a hobby and popping over the pond on more than one occasion. I'd usually be worried about getting caught on camera but h44 would spend the sequential 3 months asking how to light and mix the final result, so I'd be safe.

For sure I want to do it
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Wannabe loser or a filmmaker? A failure to act to become a filmmaker means you're choosing to be the loser.

So, you agreed to shoot that film last weekend/week? Did you make a film? Guess not. I bet you made up some good excuses. If you want to choose the loser end of the spectrum for the next 6 years, it's no skin off my nose.
 
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