portable mixer?
- Thread starter raindog
- Start date
I'm no expert in this at all ... but I guess it would depend on how many mics you want to use for a scene. If you are going with just one shotgun, then you should be able to plug that directly into the camera without using a mixer. Presumably, you camera has a headphone output jack. Have an audio guy wear those while using the mic to ensure the quality of the sound coming in to the camera. Any audio clean up can be done in the editing stage.
My two cents -- but then again, I don't shoot features.
My two cents -- but then again, I don't shoot features.
The other consideration is if you will have an audio engineer controlling the audio levels. You absolutely do not need a mixer if you have only 1-2 microphones and the camera person is controlling audio levels. You may need a long headphone cable so the boom pole operator can monitor the audio.
Aside from possibly providing additional inputs, the purpose for the mixer is to provide an external point of control and monitoring for the live audio. Obviously, audio levels are important, and the camera operator has too much to keep track of, as it is. The only person who can see the level meters on the camera is the camera operator (I'm not sure that they show on the external monitor, but even if they do, the audio controls are on the camera), and if you mess with the audio controls while shooting, you may jiggle the camera.
Ok, so the mixer is great for controlling audio during the shoot and letting the camera operator focus on framing, focus, exposure, white balance, etc. However, if there is no crew member who is responsible for audio, then the mixer is just extra hardware.
I hope that helps you decide. If you do get a mixer, you must be sure to adjust the levels properly on the camera so the meters on the mixer are reading the levels being recorded on the camera. That's half the reason the camera outputs bars and tone. The other half is for calibrating the field video monitor.
Good luck with your movie.
Doug
Aside from possibly providing additional inputs, the purpose for the mixer is to provide an external point of control and monitoring for the live audio. Obviously, audio levels are important, and the camera operator has too much to keep track of, as it is. The only person who can see the level meters on the camera is the camera operator (I'm not sure that they show on the external monitor, but even if they do, the audio controls are on the camera), and if you mess with the audio controls while shooting, you may jiggle the camera.
Ok, so the mixer is great for controlling audio during the shoot and letting the camera operator focus on framing, focus, exposure, white balance, etc. However, if there is no crew member who is responsible for audio, then the mixer is just extra hardware.
I hope that helps you decide. If you do get a mixer, you must be sure to adjust the levels properly on the camera so the meters on the mixer are reading the levels being recorded on the camera. That's half the reason the camera outputs bars and tone. The other half is for calibrating the field video monitor.
Good luck with your movie.
Doug
Hey raindog,
I'm shooting a feature right now using the XH-A1. While having a mixer and double-system sound is the ideal method, on no-budget shoots it isn't always practical. I feed my shotgun mic directly into my A1. My sound guy operates the boom and monitors through headphones. During rehearsal, we set max audio levels on the camera, or sometimes just activate the ALC (gasp! major taboo, I know, but I've been really pleased with the ALC on this camera).
Nice thing about shooting digital is, even if you set your levels too low, you're generally pretty safe boosting it in post because there's no analog tape hiss to contend with! If you get it too hot, however, there's nothing you can do, so err on the side of too low.
On my web site there are some clips from the film I'm working on, if you're interested:
http://2001productions.com/crimps.aspx
This was all shot using the XH-A1 in HD at 24f. There is also a night scene, which I think you asked about in another post. It was shot using gain, which did add grain but I kind of liked the look.
I'm shooting a feature right now using the XH-A1. While having a mixer and double-system sound is the ideal method, on no-budget shoots it isn't always practical. I feed my shotgun mic directly into my A1. My sound guy operates the boom and monitors through headphones. During rehearsal, we set max audio levels on the camera, or sometimes just activate the ALC (gasp! major taboo, I know, but I've been really pleased with the ALC on this camera).
Nice thing about shooting digital is, even if you set your levels too low, you're generally pretty safe boosting it in post because there's no analog tape hiss to contend with! If you get it too hot, however, there's nothing you can do, so err on the side of too low.
On my web site there are some clips from the film I'm working on, if you're interested:
http://2001productions.com/crimps.aspx
This was all shot using the XH-A1 in HD at 24f. There is also a night scene, which I think you asked about in another post. It was shot using gain, which did add grain but I kind of liked the look.
2001, please don't encourage bad habits. 
Audio should be recorded without the ALC/AGC and at optimal levels whenever humanly possible. Clipping is definitely bad, but too low is bad too, and the ALC could elevate background noise during moments of silence, which is also bad.
Yes, you can bend the rules, and when the dynamic range is out of control, lowering levels to keep peaks from clipping is fine, but please don't advocate the use of automatic gain controls or sloppy level setting. It makes us all look bad.
Especially people like me who's only purpose in life is to help more creative people achieve technical excellence. If I were more creative, I probably wouldn't be so anal.
As you were...
Doug
Audio should be recorded without the ALC/AGC and at optimal levels whenever humanly possible. Clipping is definitely bad, but too low is bad too, and the ALC could elevate background noise during moments of silence, which is also bad.Yes, you can bend the rules, and when the dynamic range is out of control, lowering levels to keep peaks from clipping is fine, but please don't advocate the use of automatic gain controls or sloppy level setting. It makes us all look bad.
Especially people like me who's only purpose in life is to help more creative people achieve technical excellence. If I were more creative, I probably wouldn't be so anal. As you were...
Doug
I was experimenting with different audio recording techniques after I ran into some problems with clipping on my first project, mostly when folks laughed suddenly. I also have a musician friend who hasn't quite learned the skill of controlling sound level by moving away from or closer to the mic.
I have a dbx 266XL compressor/gate (in a portable housing) and a Mackie 802-VLZ3 compact mixer. Both are portable, but are not battery operated. I have pictures of the setup we used during live performance capture (in our makeshift DIY sound chamber), but since I am travelling this week in northern California I can't post the pictures. I haven't tried using this on a location shoot yet, but at least I now have it in my toolset just in case. I can't imagine I would ever need the mixer, but the compressor may come in handy.
I have a dbx 266XL compressor/gate (in a portable housing) and a Mackie 802-VLZ3 compact mixer. Both are portable, but are not battery operated. I have pictures of the setup we used during live performance capture (in our makeshift DIY sound chamber), but since I am travelling this week in northern California I can't post the pictures. I haven't tried using this on a location shoot yet, but at least I now have it in my toolset just in case. I can't imagine I would ever need the mixer, but the compressor may come in handy.
I'm envious of you, man. I record live band performances for the high school to help them raise money. I've got access to grid power when I'm shooting the band, so your setup sounds like it would be ideal.
I'm thinking of making a compressor circuit, since I have everything else I need, but it's difficult to cope with the dynamic range from a flute to a bass drum. Given the quality of today's operational amplifiers, and the low cost, I'm hoping I can build a simple, inexpensive prototype that I can just put in line with my microphone. I suppose it will act as a variable gain preamp, so I'll need to build in the balanced pre-amp circuitry.
I've also considered just getting a 24bit recorder and leaving some head room for the really punchy stuff. Then I could apply the compressor in software before converting to 16 bit.
Doug
I'm thinking of making a compressor circuit, since I have everything else I need, but it's difficult to cope with the dynamic range from a flute to a bass drum. Given the quality of today's operational amplifiers, and the low cost, I'm hoping I can build a simple, inexpensive prototype that I can just put in line with my microphone. I suppose it will act as a variable gain preamp, so I'll need to build in the balanced pre-amp circuitry.
I've also considered just getting a 24bit recorder and leaving some head room for the really punchy stuff. Then I could apply the compressor in software before converting to 16 bit.
Doug
They really weren't that expensive. The compressor was ~$150 and the mixer was ~$200 at Guitar Center. What's your time worth?
Right now, Vince, my time is valuable, but time spent away from the computer is somewhat relaxing. I think I had seen some pre-amp compressor units in the B&H Pro Audio catalog that were around that price. You are right, though. If it was just a matter of time and material, it would be cheaper to purchase it. There is some other gear I really, really want, and my budget for camera gear is limited to 50% of what I make shooting. Having already spent a pretty penny this year, I could be a little tight for a while. 
The other thing I keep reminding myself when I'm thinking of a 24 bit recorder and/or a compressor limiter, is that I only need them for a gig I don't get paid for. Therefore, there is no real business justification. Not to mention the fact that the people I'm recording for think the quality is amazing, as it is. I'm the &*(@#@ perfectionist; the "customer" may not be able to tell the difference.
Alas, I'm going to go get drunk.
Doug
The other thing I keep reminding myself when I'm thinking of a 24 bit recorder and/or a compressor limiter, is that I only need them for a gig I don't get paid for. Therefore, there is no real business justification. Not to mention the fact that the people I'm recording for think the quality is amazing, as it is. I'm the &*(@#@ perfectionist; the "customer" may not be able to tell the difference.Alas, I'm going to go get drunk.
Doug
No argument here. I'm an audio guy as well; in fact, I believe sound quality is more important than image quality. For every hour I spend editing pix, I probably spend 5 hours or more on sound.The reality is, however, when you're in the field with an inexperienced crew of 2 and you have 4 hours to shoot 3 days' worth of stuff...you just get the friggin' shot! If I have to, I'll use ALC, auto focus, whatever tool gets the job done.
Full disclosure: if the background is noisy, I likely will not use the ALC. I always make sure to get room tone; then, in post, if I've shot a scene with ALC, I will isolate each line of dialog and replace the gaps with tone.
Inexperienced crew? OMG, don't even go there with me. I've done shots where I had to be in a shot, so I set the camera up and had someone else operate it. Often times, the shots would have come out better had I put the camera on a tripod, set it to autofocus and locked it down. However, this is "be kind to newbies month", so I must not be mean until July 1.
Doug
Doug