Orginality is almost absolute - So what do you do?

One of the reasons you get those threads on IMDB is because everyone thinks they've got a great idea for a movie... and they often think that idea is enough to get the film made.

As a screenwriter I've had too many experiences where someone has approached me to co-write a film with them... they have an idea, they expect me to write the entire script and yet they still feel that they are one of the "writers."

There is no shortage of ideas, just a shortage of good ones... and actually an original idea and a good one aren't the same thing at all.

The other reason people get so jaded about films being the same, is because audiences by and large go to see the same kind of films, time and time again.

If you watch Hollywood action films, then eventually you'll see they are all variations of the same story... but, there are a whole world of films out there which are nothing like that.

Audiences don't want truly original films, they want new twists on the same old story...

If they were interested in original films, it would be easier to get indie films with unknown actors distributed... but no, they all want the new Brad Pitt movie... and they want Brad to be pretty much how he was in his previous efforts (but with some new twist).
 
You are so right about that, and it just isn't in movies where familiarity is king.
Restaurants, stores, television, it goes on and on. Mind you, I'm speaking only from the perspective of the US.
When I was a kid way back in the dim mists of the 1960s I couldn't wait to be able to travel to other cities and towns and places in the rural countryside to see all the museums, stores, and buildings that gave each place its own identity.
Then when I was grown and could travel anywhere I wanted I was sadly disappointed to find that just about everywhere had become one big Walmart

--I'm also speaking in generalities here--

Almost all the little old stores and attractions I once thought would be so cool to stop and see had been replaced with brand name outlets. Even my favorite destination of Las Vegas had been converted into some bizarro Disneyland that looked pretty much like every other tourist spot.

And in talking to people and observing their actions I realize that I'm the odd one out, by and large folks just love what they know. Given the choice between a nice little independent restaurant or a McWendy's, they are going to go for the icon place every time.

(refer back to my comment about generalities)

I don't blame the companies that open cookie cutter stores, they are just playing to their audience, but the ease of mobility of the more common denominator people has driven the market into a grey amalgamation of what was once very specific local identities.

It just ended up proving something Douglas Adams said years ago, "when time travel was finally made available, every time got to be pretty much like every other time" (paraphrasing there, I don't have my copy of the Guide handy).

I used to joke that the first place anyone went when they traveled to a new town was Walmart, it's not a joke anymore. Familiarity seems to breed security and that's what people like, whether in a store on the screen.

Come to think of it, Walmart is missing a great bet by not opening hotels!

Neil

clive said:
The other reason people get so jaded about films being the same, is because audiences by and large go to see the same kind of films, time and time again.

If you watch Hollywood action films, then eventually you'll see they are all variations of the same story... but, there are a whole world of films out there which are nothing like that.

Audiences don't want truly original films, they want new twists on the same old story...

If they were interested in original films, it would be easier to get indie films with unknown actors distributed... but no, they all want the new Brad Pitt movie... and they want Brad to be pretty much how he was in his previous efforts (but with some new twist).
Click to expand...
 
I watched "The Brave One" last night -- new release, Jodie Foster as a victim wronged seeking revenge vigilante style. That has been done so many times, but always with twists of setting, plot, character. But it works, it is a human drive to seek revenge and justice. Think Death Wish (Charles Bronson) I, II, III, IV from the 70s. Change the character to a woman and modern day and you go from Death Wish to The Brave One.
 
clive pretty much hit all the points. But I am so passionate about this
subject that I just have to add my thoughts.

One of your points, MelonDome, was filmmakers are relying on
books. Jurassic Park was adapted from a book. And the idea of
cloning dinosaurs from blood in mosquitos is something scientists
have been theorizing for decades. There have been several other
cloning from blood stories - a popular 1950's theme in sci-fi
novels and movies. And as clive pointed out, there have been
many, many dinosaur island stories. Not a virgin idea, but an
interesting twist of several genres.

The Sixth Sense was a very original take on some very old ideas. A
young child who sees spirits is in contact with a ghost who
doesn't know he is dead. Particularly in Japan, China and Korean
films and stories. Rod Serling used that ending twist in several
Twilight Zone episodes.

The Village has almost the exact same plot as Margaret Peterson
Haddix's "Running Out of Time" (1995) and this idea, a village
seemingly in the past is actually in the present and even most of
the people are unaware was a favorite of Rod Serling.

The Matrix is the standard hero's journey using the Gibson
cyperpunk genre - as clive mentioned. Nero's story is the Arthur
legend, the Skywalker story and a lot of the Christ story. And
the theme of the films - the "idea" - has many elements of
"Neuromancer".

Essentially my point is the same as Neil's. MelonDome, you are
thinking that there used to be originality and there is almost
none left anymore and it's making it difficult for you to write.
That's gonna drive you nuts!

The reason I asked you to mention some virgin ideas is so you can
see they aren't. The originality you see is based on your
ignorance. Now please understand that word - it's often used
incorrectly - not as a put down, but in its truest meaning:
lacking information or knowledge.

As you read more you will see that originality is in the execution
of the idea, not in the idea itself. Don't look for virgin ideas
- you won't find many - try to write original takes on the old
ideas.

Isn't "Clerks" just "The Breakfast Club" with fewer characters?
Isn't "The Breakfast Club" just "The Return of the Secaus Seven" with high schoolers?
Isn't "The Return of the Secaus Seven" just "Dinner at Eight"?

They all have essentially the same idea. All handled very
differently.

I get a little carried away. I love story telling and the history
behind stories.
 
I love these forums so much; I have never met such respectable and intelligent people who love film just as much as me. Thank you guys for the input. I understand now. Takes a big weight off my shoulders!
 
Just wanted to toss in an "original" recent movie. I'm watching "True Lies" and something struck me. I would say that this is a pretty original movie, but there's something to consider that might even be more important than originality, and that's unexpectedness.
If you toss something in that no one saw coming you not only pass the unexpected muster, but you might pass through the originality filter!!

Just a thought!
Neil
 
Yeah, but the essential theme of the movie is a guy who's living a double life.

And lord knows that's been done before.

However, it was a pretty clever variation on that theme.

I thought.
 
Well there you go! I got to thinking about what you said and came up with "Footsteps in the Dark" with Erroll Flynn from about 1938!! He played a regular guy who was also a mystery writer that solved crimes to help the police. There's your double life! So much for an original concept.

However I think working on the unexpected aspect would be a big help to an aspiring writer/director.

That way you can have all kinds of twists and turns, and as Lord Melchet said of Edmund Blackadder; "You twist and turn like a twisty turny thing!"

I've been working on a monster-scifi-horror-murder thing for a couple of years and still haven't written it the way I want to make it twist.

I even bought a piece of river front property to shoot the thing when I finally get it all pulled together! :)

But until it's tweaked the way I want, to the back burner it goes!!

Oh! One other thing about "True Lies", it's well worth the watch to see the lighting in action. Particularly the scene when Jamie Lee Curtis goes to the hotel room to entice Arnold. Watch the shadows and blue filter work.

Neil
 
oh yea, I remember true lies haha! Jamie lee was very attractive in that scene ><. When you guys say double life, and someone mentioned the brave one earlier, both of thoughs films can be resembled to Taxi Driver! I just had to say that..
 
clive said:
Audiences don't want truly original films, they want new twists on the same old story...
Click to expand...

Sometimes that's because the same old story is the story of our lives. Most people don't live original lives at all. I have a relative that's cheating on her husband. She's ripping him for this and that to justify her behavior. I went through all of this with my parents when I was growing up and met groups of other kids going through the same thing, so when I hear her complain about her husband, it just sounds like the same old thing, albeit new to her. In fact, we could fill the streets of Manhattan with all the people in her position and they would sing in chorus the same complaints.

Unfaithful has captured this story the best I've ever seen. I made a short that touched on it, although it's anything but original. It's just my take on something that many, many people go through.

Justin
 
Not to mention Woody Allen who has told this story over and over again, but I find his movies still feel fresh and original because I can relate.

Justin
 
Justin's comments got me to thinking that being unique is as important and certainly more attainable than being completely original.

I can point to a lot more unique movies than original, for instance just about anything Terry Gilliam has ever put his hand on.

And one of my all time favorites, "Kelly's Heroes" a WWII movie with traditional elements of war and then the added element of a gold heist, and Donald Sutherland as a hippie tank commander! Now that's unique!

There's a good test for movies that are neither original nor unique, they tend to not do well at the box office.
Anyone remember "King Frat"? Ugh

Neil

Justin Hayward said:
Not to mention Woody Allen who has told this story over and over again, but I find his movies still feel fresh and original because I can relate.

Justin
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