Orginality is almost absolute - So what do you do?

M

MelonDome

Over the course of time, so many ideas have been used in cinema, that there is almost no originality left anymore.

It has come to the point, that even big directors like Spielberg, take old movie ideas, and produce remakes for box office revenue(ie. Disturbia- Rearwindow). Another trend I noticed, is alot of film makers who originality started out writing, are just making movies out of novels.(No Country for Old Men - Coen Bros.)

So as an indy film maker trying to get discovered at a film festival. What are some things you guys do to think of new, virgin ideas? Shall we go deep into our libraries and search for novels that have new and unique ideas not portrayed in film yet? That is how some of the most succesful films were made, they were adapted from novels(ie. godfather, jaws, and todays Atonement, No Country for Old Men)

I try brainstorming hours each day, whether im in class, home, bathroom, car, wherever. And my ideas still are some how relate to films that have already been made.
 
I don't think there really is such a thing as a virgin idea, and I think it's been that way for an extremely long time.

My 11th grade English and Journalism teacher once told me that when you really got down to it, there's only five or six ideas out there. If that's true, all you can hope to do is an original variation on that idea.

Which is also difficult these days, but unlike a completely original idea, is not impossible.
 
I would think that is true. 99% of films/stories are essentially "Hero's journeys" (Joseph Campbell), but the variations are what make the stories unique. There would seem to be endless permutations when you think of the variety of characters, character traits, character interactions, character flaws, locations, quests.

barnaclelapse said:
I don't think there really is such a thing as a virgin idea, and I think it's been that way for an extremely long time. My 11th grade English and Journalism teacher once told me that when you really got down to it, there's only five or six ideas out there. If that's true, all you can hope to do is an original variation on that idea. Which is also difficult these days, but unlike a completely original idea, is not impossible.
Click to expand...
 
Of course there's such a thing as an original idea. Language didn't always exist. Just because it's not that easy to think of one or know it when you see it doesn't mean it's not there. This kind of thinking is perpetuated by people who don't really think for themselves and just parrot others for the effect of the words.

I mean, for example, who came up with a character like the Christmas Critters before? Not many I bet. I think, possibly but not definitely, that ironic twists are at a higher level now than they could be before.
 
Last edited:
Every new writer gets frustrated and thinks there is almost no
originality left for them. But there is. And if you are the writer
who finds it, you will be the one people are talking about in
the future.

Read Campbell. A must read for every writer. I make a point of
reading it once a year.

He didn't invent the hero's journey, his research showed that
humans have been telling that story in various forms since we
could communicate.

As an indie filmmaker trying to be discovered you need to know
story structure and use it to create something new and interesting.
I don't know that digging deep into our libraries to adapt
a novel is the answer for a new filmmaker.


Just for fun: give us an example of an original idea - a virgin
idea from back in the day.
 
...the principles of building a house are the same whether you are building a regular home or if you are Frank Lloyd Wright. YOU have to be Frank Lloyd Wright :D

Of course there are different ways and ideas for stories. Maybe "Hero Journey's" is accurate, but how many different "journeys" can you come up with? There's:

The Terminator, Run, Lola, Run, Mad Max, ANY cop who saves the day.

Then there is the "boy meets girl" storyline. With that you get Chick Flicks or Boys Don't Cry. (I know that was non-fiction, but you get the idea).

If you are looking for originality: Being John Malkovich, Pi, ANYTHING by David Lynch.

The thing you have to remember is that since you are independent, you can pretty much do anything since you don't have anyone telling you it won't work. Maybe it won't work. But Primer did.

It has to make sense in the context of your idea and story. Try something, try anything :)

-- spinner :cool:
 
directorik said:
Just for fun: give us an example of an original idea - a virgin
idea from back in the day.
Click to expand...

I saw one last night:

Hitchcock's "Rebecca"
You have a widower who was/is obsessed with his dead wife, marries new wife who takes on dead wifey's characteristics or at least her clothes. He has some kind of breakdown/breakthrough, everyone lives happily ever after. (of course, this is the chick flick school, though)

How about "All About Eve"
The veteran female gets a intern/secretary/whatever, who manages to steal the veterans job because she is younger, prettier and just as ruthless.

The cool thing about watching old films is that you get to see the first time a premise or idea is used...

-- spinner :cool:
 
Yes. One thing I read somewhere that helped inspire was to consider opposites of archetypes or paradigms. Like, when we think of a Detective we often think of a man in his 30s wearing a suit. So think the opposite-- an older woman detective in a dress-- Angela Lansbury in "Murder She Wrote"; or a young girl detective wearing a dress-- Nancy Drew. Play with permutation, unexpected character types and qualities.
 
I'd still say those films (or at least All About Eve) deal with basic storylines that were used before. I mean, that wasn't the first story to be told about a veteran of some profession having their position threatened by an up-and-comer.

But it was a brilliantly done (flawlessly so, I might even say) variation on that idea.

And that's a good point as well Joe999.

Like I said, I think the potential for clever variations are still very much there.

And because we're talking about film, it's also possible for that variation to come from a performance rather than the story itself.

If that makes sense.
 
That plot is quite common and not virgin to du Maurier's 1938
novel. Both Nabuco's "A Sucessora" (1934) and Bronte's
"Jane Eyre" (1847) share many themes and ideas with "Rebecca"
including the young second wife taking on, or being forced to take on,
characteristics of the previous wife. There were so many similarities
with the Nabuco novel that du Maurier came under some criticism.

And a younger person stealing a job or position from an older one
is hardly virgin to 1950's "All About Eve."

In both cases the execution of the idea was interesting, but the
"idea" wasn't new. Writers looking for new/virgin ideas may get
as frustrated as MelonDome.

Joe - you point out an excellent way to make ideas unique - a
gender or costume change sometimes does it. I'm a voracious
reader, all writers should be. It's a great way to learn how themes,
ideas and cliches can be turned to create something that seems new.
 
directorik said:
That plot is quite common and not virgin to du Maurier's 1938
novel. Both Nabuco's "A Sucessora" (1934) and Bronte's
"Jane Eyre" (1847) share many themes and ideas with "Rebecca"
including the young second wife taking on, or being forced to take on,
characteristics of the previous wife. There were so many similarities
with the Nabuco novel that du Maurier came under some criticism.
Click to expand...

I am unfamiliar with the Nabuco story, however...

Bronte's Jane Eyre, the way I remember it, is about a man who was attempting to hide a first wife. Moreover, the wife was mad and locked away in a part of the house. He was at the time devoted to a living woman, who he preferred to forget and get away from.

Whereas Rebecca was about a man who's obsession with a dead spouse, causing him to compare the new wife to the deceased. His obsession, unlike the Bronte story, compelled him to keep all of the dead wife's belongings the way they were when she was alive, making him incapable of leaving the ghost of his first wife.

Not really the same...though both are gothic novels. And they may be common now, but the point still stands, that you get to see...okay, maybe not the first time, but at least the earlier(st) expressions of a particular premise.

....how's that for a headbanger! :D

-- spinner :cool:
 
Last edited:
It's tough to keep up the hope that you've got something to offer sometimes.

I mean, when I read a really good passage out of...say...a Hunter S. Thompson book...I almost always wonder how in the hell I could ever hope to write something with the kind of force he wrote with.

And of course, the sentiment applies to films as well.

I guess you just keep your head up, as the cliche goes, believe in yourself and believe in the idea and remain stubborn as hell in getting it out there or die trying.

That's all you can do.
 
Yea I agree. Its amazing how you can pick up a random book and read extraordinary things, and ask yourself, "why couldnt I think of that?". But when you finally sit down to write something, all the things that come to my head are things I have already read or seen. ><
 
I'm curious, MelonDome. You said there is almost no originality
left anymore. When was there originality?

What, from the past, do you consider a new, virgin idea?
 
What's worse is when you write something you're pretty sure you haven't seen before only to see it or read it shortly therafter. There has to be a collective unconscious because I know my muse listens to it all the time.
 
Directorik, here are some films I consider virgin ideas that have never been used before.

Jurassik Park
The Sixth Sense
The Village
Matrix

Please correct me if im wrong, but these films are not cliches of any other prior pieces of work. That is why I get so frustrated. Because I believe that if you want to really stand out, you need to make something that hasn't been done before.
 
Hmm

Jurassic Park isn't that original, there were a slew of "dinosaurs terrify humans" in the 1970s, mainly noted for the work of Ray Harryhausen... but also some really bad ones with cardboard fins stuck on lizards. If you IMDB the actor "Doug McClure" you'll find 90% of them, because he seemed to be the lead actor in most.

The Sixth Sense and The Village are concepts I recognise from 1950's Sci-Fi short stories, can't think of examples off the top of my head. Actually a lot of those guys ended up writing Twilight Zone episodes, I can almost guarantee that they'll be episodes which covered both those central concepts... they're not that original.

The Matrix, again covered extensively as an idea in 1950's Sci-Fi writing... and more recently in the cyber-punk books by William Gibson or Neal Stephenson... whose book Snow Crash predicted concepts like "Second Life"

Personally, I don't think originality is the key to creating good drama... and as you can see, originality is in the eye of the beholder... if you don't know where their influences were, things appear original.

Where originality comes in, is in how you tell the story... and ironically I wrote an article about exactly this just a few weeks ago

http://www.1000dollarfilm.com/2008/01/09/originality-doesnt-make-great-drama/
 
Just a thought about originality in film, there seems to be a new spectator sport amongst people posting on the IMDb to see how fast they can point out what film is being "copied" or "ripped off" by just about any new film being released.
The threads are almost always identical, deteriorating into mindless complaints that movies can't be original, greedy moviemakers just steal ideas, etc.
I've often felt like posting "this thread is just a rip off of the thread from the last movie" but why feed the fire? I doubt the people griping about "ripoff" movies time and again even get the irony of what they are doing.
Funny thing, for all their complaints, they still plunk down the $8 for a ticket!

That a film isn't 100% original is the one criticism that an aspiring director or writer really should just ignore.
Unless you shoot your movie upside down or something, pure originality is going to be pretty much impossible, just tell your terrific story your own terrific way and you will find your mission accomplished.

There's that old show biz adage of "always leave them wanting more" and if an idea was good enough in the first place to be retold then retell it.

Just because something was done once doesn't mean that the original writers, producers, directors, cast, and crew are going to come back and do it some more.

Write, shoot, edit, and sell, and damn the naysayers!

Worrying about originality is similar to getting bogged down about what's the best gadgetry for making movies, in the end it doesn't matter, a good job is a good job. There's enough things that will bog you down anyway, like writer's block, or getting actors together for a shoot than being concerned that some yoyo is going to scream "ripoff" about your film.

Just my 4 cents (trying to be original ;) )

Neil
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top