Opinions please! GH2 (hacked), or GH3 for double the cost?

G

gibbo

G'Day gents/ladies!

I know there are heaps of threads like this already, but this is more a "your opinion" thread. I'm seriously torn between a GH2 and a GH3 and need some opinions:

GH3:
$1300 body only. As I live in AUS I will have to buy and import (otherwise it will be around $2000 I believe), so there will be no local warranty as I believe Panasonic do not offer international warranty. (focus peaking maybe available later)

GH2:
I found one for around $700 2nd hand, with the standard zoom kit lens (14-40 i think), with another 3 years local warranty from a big retailer in AUS. (no focus peaking?)

Currently use a Canon 600D/T3i, not much investment in lenses (nifty 50, tamron 17-50mm 2.8) as I was never sure which system I wanted to settle on so I just went with Canon to learn. I feel now that I'm more knowledgeable and done research, MFT is the way for me! Especially with the BM Pocket Cam coming out, and "hopefully" the Metabones speedbooster adapter.

Also, from what I've read the GH2's sensor is slightly larger than the GH3 and it is slightly better in low light, and the hack improves more on low light capabilities. (important). However, the GH3 MIGHT get peaking in a future firmware update, but from what I understand the GH2 can never have it? (also important)

I don't know if its just me, or because the camera is newish, but I haven't been able to find any really cinematic footage from the GH3. Most of it has been too "digital" and "video like". Again, maybe because it's new? This is probably the best footage I've seen from it:

vimeo.com/55710058

And I also have not been able to find any footage of the uncompressed HDMI out on the GH3.

I have stumbled across some pretty darn good cinematic footage out of the GH2 though:

Musgo feat film trailer:
vimeo.com/33025136

The first 5 minutes of Musgo:
www.vimeo.com/45596420

And, Upstream Color:
www.vimeo.com/57342043

And an uncompressed HDMI out:
www.vimeo.com/26510222

Even these random GH2 filmconvert tests look much better then everthing I've seen from a GH3:
www.vimeo.com/53620471

www.vimeo.com/50428641

www.vimeo.com/53816632

So, what would you do?

A hacked local GH2 with 3 years warranty and kit lens for $700-$750.

or

A GH3, imported with no warranty, body only for $1300-$1400. (hack could be a while, not that it really needs it?)
 
Sort by date Sort by votes
GH3 has just come out, but i feel it has more potential than the GH2, but then again, you should really be thinking that investment should be more in the Lenses than the camera itself, whats wrong with the canon that you couldnt invest in an L lens for it? to get that crystal clear image.

what do you know that you will get from the GH2 that you cant already get from the 600D?

have you weighed out the pros and cons? can you afford the lenses for the GH2? if your moving up from the 600d then why are you considering the kit lens for the GH2? why not a better lens?

iv seen absolutely beautiful footage from the 600D/7D/550D with really good lenses, for me the lenses make the real difference not the camera.

just something to think about..

i mean my step up from the 600D would be the canon c100, or a sony fs700...
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
The GH2 has a very high bitrate.

You can try all day, you won't get the same image quality with a Rebel.

That doesn't mean you can get nice footage from a Rebel.

Go with a GH2.

I'll do that as soon as I get the opportunity to update the whole workflow.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Hi gibbo -

My first video DSLR was a 500D. In my view, you're making the right decision.

I moved on the GH2 for the video viewfinder, video autofocus and unlimited clip length (in addition to the image quality potential provided by the high bit rate hacks). I also hated carrying around a heavy and bulky reflex mirror mechanism that I didn't use most of the time.

I moved on the GH3 for the headphone jack, 1080/60p, stable high bit rates out of the box, splashproof metal body, 19 steps of manual audio level control (as opposed to the GH2's 4), multiple codecs (this is a big deal), increased number of custom/function buttons, dual control wheels, the list goes on.

If I were you, I would get the GH3. It is an absolute joy to shoot video (and stills) with. You can get one for AUD$1388 with a 3 year warranty ($1303 if you use Australian Bank Payment).

Regarding the "cinematic look" - a lot of it has to do with the grade.

Here is a "cinematic" grade of the GH3 on the streets of Bangkok with a Pixel Film Studios' Profilm conversion: http://vimeo.com/62291338

Contrast that with this piece shot on the streets of Phnom Penh at 72mbps (much more "video" like): http://vimeo.com/62228169

And, in case you haven't seen them, here are a couple of examples of the GH3 with Filmconvert:
"Clash" - http://vimeo.com/59543338

"GH3 in New York Graded" (16 seconds): http://vimeo.com/53074370

Over time, you will see many more "cinematic" narratives shot with the GH3. The GH2 has been out for over two years and, as far as I know, "Upstream Color" is the first movie shot on the camera that I can actually go to see in the cinema :)

Cheers,

Bill
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
8salacious9 said:
GH3 has just come out, but i feel it has more potential than the GH2, but then again, you should really be thinking that investment should be more in the Lenses than the camera itself, whats wrong with the canon that you couldnt invest in an L lens for it? to get that crystal clear image.
Click to expand...

Not going to invest in L lens as I dont want to stay with Canon in the long run. Plus, an L lens wont make the 600D, or any canon DSLR have a crystal clear image (the 5DMkIII would be the best wth its new codecs)

what do you know that you will get from the GH2 that you cant already get from the 600D?
Click to expand...

Much higher bitrate/resolution, more lens adapting options, smaller form factor, less moire/aliasing, usable viewfinding in video mode (good for handheld) just to name a few. Really with is had peaking :(

have you weighed out the pros and cons? can you afford the lenses for the GH2? if your moving up from the 600d then why are you considering the kit lens for the GH2? why not a better lens?
Click to expand...

Sorry, definitely getting better lenses, the Kit lens is just what's coming with the camera second hand.


iv seen absolutely beautiful footage from the 600D/7D/550D with really good lenses, for me the lenses make the real difference not the camera.

just something to think about..
Click to expand...

Did you watch the above clips I posted from the GH3/GH2? Trumps any canon DSLR footage in terms of resolution. (You have have to download original files to appreciate)

i mean my step up from the 600D would be the canon c100, or a sony fs700...
Click to expand...

Also a step up in price! This is just a hobby for now, not maing any money from it yet. I want to stay with the DSLR form factor and have a beastly video/still camera combined.

My mind is made up on either the gh2/gh3. I MIGHT keep my canon for stills, depending on whether I need to sell it or not.

TheArtist said:
The GH2 has a very high bitrate.

You can try all day, you won't get the same image quality with a Rebel.

That doesn't mean you can get nice footage from a Rebel.

Go with a GH2.

I'll do that as soon as I get the opportunity to update the whole workflow.
Click to expand...

brunerww said:
Hi gibbo -

My first video DSLR was a 500D. In my view, you're making the right decision.

I moved on the GH2 for the video viewfinder, video autofocus and unlimited clip length (in addition to the image quality potential provided by the high bit rate hacks). I also hated carrying around a heavy and bulky reflex mirror mechanism that I didn't use most of the time.

I moved on the GH3 for the headphone jack, 1080/60p, stable high bit rates out of the box, splashproof metal body, 19 steps of manual audio level control (as opposed to the GH2's 4), multiple codecs (this is a big deal), increased number of custom/function buttons, dual control wheels, the list goes on.

If I were you, I would get the GH3. It is an absolute joy to shoot video (and stills) with. You can get one for AUD$1388 with a 3 year warranty ($1303 if you use Australian Bank Payment).

Regarding the "cinematic look" - a lot of it has to do with the grade.

Here is a "cinematic" grade of the GH3 on the streets of Bangkok with a Pixel Film Studios' Profilm conversion: http://vimeo.com/62291338

Contrast that with this piece shot on the streets of Phnom Penh at 72mbps (much more "video" like): http://vimeo.com/62228169

And, in case you haven't seen them, here are a couple of examples of the GH3 with Filmconvert:
"Clash" - http://vimeo.com/59543338

"GH3 in New York Graded" (16 seconds): http://vimeo.com/53074370

Over time, you will see many more "cinematic" narratives shot with the GH3. The GH2 has been out for over two years and, as far as I know, "Upstream Color" is the first movie shot on the camera that I can actually go to see in the cinema :)

Cheers,

Bill
Click to expand...

thanks for the response, short on time now, i will respond later on after work/uni

THanks!
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
THanks for the reply!

brunerww said:
Hi gibbo -

My first video DSLR was a 500D. In my view, you're making the right decision.

I moved on the GH2 for the video viewfinder, video autofocus and unlimited clip length (in addition to the image quality potential provided by the high bit rate hacks). I also hated carrying around a heavy and bulky reflex mirror mechanism that I didn't use most of the time.

I moved on the GH3 for the headphone jack, 1080/60p, stable high bit rates out of the box, splashproof metal body, 19 steps of manual audio level control (as opposed to the GH2's 4), multiple codecs (this is a big deal), increased number of custom/function buttons, dual control wheels, the list goes on.
Click to expand...

Does the headphone jack offer audio monitoring? That would be great...

If I were you, I would get the GH3. It is an absolute joy to shoot video (and stills) with. You can get one for AUD$1388 with a 3 year warranty ($1303 if you use Australian Bank Payment).

Regarding the "cinematic look" - a lot of it has to do with the grade.

Here is a "cinematic" grade of the GH3 on the streets of Bangkok with a Pixel Film Studios' Profilm conversion: http://vimeo.com/62291338
Click to expand...

While that looks very nice, it still doesn't have the same filmic feel of GH2 footage. Dunno if it's just me...

Contrast that with this piece shot on the streets of Phnom Penh at 72mbps (much more "video" like): http://vimeo.com/62228169
Click to expand...

It's almost unbelievable how good the quality is! But again, it almost looks too clinical or something...

And, in case you haven't seen them, here are a couple of examples of the GH3 with Filmconvert:
"Clash" - http://vimeo.com/59543338
Click to expand...

Ahh, yeah I've seen that short film, nice story I liked it a lot! Although it looks clincal/too clean or something... some of the shots look quiet "video" as well

"GH3 in New York Graded" (16 seconds): http://vimeo.com/53074370
Click to expand...

AGain, nice and sharp, but very clinical.

They all seem to be great clips, maybe it's just me, or maybe the filmconvert ones dont seem right becaues there are no GH3 profiles yet? (I've read) or maybe something else.

In me eyes, none of those clips look like, say for example, the Mungo (first 5 mins) clip I posted, that looks delicious!

Over time, you will see many more "cinematic" narratives shot with the GH3. The GH2 has been out for over two years and, as far as I know, "Upstream Color" is the first movie shot on the camera that I can actually go to see in the cinema :)

Cheers,

Bill
Click to expand...

Diamond Flash was another one shot on GH2, unhacked, so standard bitrate of 25mbps (or is that 24?)

https://vimeo.com/33546292

Musgo, Diamond Flash and Upstream Color are the only films I'm aware of that shot on a GH2... there would be a bunch more indie/low budget ones for sure...
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
brunerww said:
Mandorla is another indie film shot on the GH2: http://vimeo.com/40844162

Thanks for the link to Diamond Flash - I hadn't seen that one.

As for "sharp" vs "filmic" - you can always add grain - but it's tough to recover detail that isn't there :)

Cheers,

Bill
Click to expand...

No worries, Bill.

And that Mandorla looks great!

Here's the trailer for one shot on the GH3, a doco:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y82SM45idS4

And the accompaying article:

http://filmmakermagazine.com/61709-shooting-angels-with-the-panasonic-gh3-in-mexico/

GH3 would be great for Doco work...
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Still torn between the two.

Low light is important to me, crop factor no so much, but still taken into consideration.

I mention those two because apparently the "real" crop factor of the GH2 is 1.8x and the GH3 is 2x, sensor slightly larger on the GH2 - better in low light?
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Hi gibbo - my GH3 is decisively better than my GH2 in low light.

I didn't shoot this, but it matches my experience:

http://vimeo.com/54325211

The GH2's White Balance problem can be fixed by adjustments in camera, but the noise in low light can't.

As for the crop, the best discussion I've seen on it is over at personal-view - but I think it's against the rules here to link to other boards.

Bottom line: it depends on the aspect ratio. At 16:9, it's close enough to 2x for both cameras not to make a difference.

If you can afford it, I still recommend the GH3 (AUD$1434.27 on eBay Australia as of this post).

Cheers,

Bill

P.S. gratuitous side by side pic ;)

P1010678.JPG
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
brunerww said:
Hi gibbo - my GH3 is decisively better than my GH2 in low light.

I didn't shoot this, but it matches my experience:

http://vimeo.com/54325211

The GH2's White Balance problem can be fixed by adjustments in camera, but the noise in low light can't.

As for the crop, the best discussion I've seen on it is over at personal-view - but I think it's against the rules here to link to other boards.

Bottom line: it depends on the aspect ratio. At 16:9, it's close enough to 2x for both cameras not to make a difference.

If you can afford it, I still recommend the GH3 (AUD$1434.27 on eBay Australia as of this post).

Cheers,

Bill

P.S. gratuitous side by side pic ;)

P1010678.JPG
Click to expand...

wow that video was exactly what I was looking for, what a difference!

Do you think the export/rendering/whatever had an effect too? Because not only is the GH2 noisier at the same ISO, the compression and macroblocking is much higher as well.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
gibbo said:
Do you think the export/rendering/whatever had an effect too? Because not only is the GH2 noisier at the same ISO, the compression and macroblocking is much higher as well.
Click to expand...

It isn't the compression, it is the camera. The GH3 cleans up the GH2"s macroblocking, banding and white balance challenges and adds 1080/60p, the .mov codec, higher stock bit rates without a hack, a headphone jack, weather sealing and wi-fi - at the expense of the multi-aspect sensor and a little more moire.

At AUD$1434.20, the GH3 is well worth the money, in my view. I haven't picked the GH2 up for video since I got the GH3.

Cheers,

Bill
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Thanks Bill! I was not aware of the G6, read about it after you mentioned it in another thread... might be worth keeping an eye out for. I assume a hack will be developed for it also.

brunerww said:
It isn't the compression, it is the camera. The GH3 cleans up the GH2"s macroblocking, banding and white balance challenges and adds 1080/60p, the .mov codec, higher stock bit rates without a hack, a headphone jack, weather sealing and wi-fi - at the expense of the multi-aspect sensor and a little more moire.
Click to expand...

Would be nice if Panasonic added Focus peaking in a firmware update too.

At AUD$1434.20, the GH3 is well worth the money, in my view. I haven't picked the GH2 up for video since I got the GH3.

Cheers,

Bill
Click to expand...

It's very tempting. Very very tempting. I just still feel there's something missing with the picture (someone else also mentioned this in another post on these forums, so at least I know now I'm not crazy!)

I know the GH3 is suppose to have uncompressed out recording via the HDMI, but I haven't been able to find anything more about this other than "it's in the specs", have you stumbled across any links or videos Bill?
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
gibbo said:
Would be nice if Panasonic added Focus peaking in a firmware update too.
Click to expand...
Would really like that, but from what I've read, probably not happening (http://www.43rumors.com/panasonic-interview-at-dpreview/)

Although there are a few rumors flying around, and there was a quote from a panasonic rep saying they wanted to do what they could for the customers demanding it - can't find the source, and I'm unsure how reliable it was. And iirc, it sounded like they weren't planning it for the GH3 :(

It's very tempting. Very very tempting. I just still feel there's something missing with the picture (someone else also mentioned this in another post on these forums, so at least I know now I'm not crazy!)
Click to expand...
From a very un-expert POV, I think the 'look' is more to do with your grading and colour correction. And so, with the right post-production work, the GH3 would be more ideal, as it provides a cleaner/better image to work with? The GH2 might look better straight out of the camera (pretty subjective, and I don't think I can really make a call on which is better), but a lot of it comes down to post work.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0 Downvote
gibbo said:
Thanks Bill! I was not aware of the G6, read about it after you mentioned it in another thread... might be worth keeping an eye out for. I assume a hack will be developed for it also.
Click to expand...

Something to be aware of - the camera has to be released (June) - and then Panasonic has to release a firmware update before the great Panasonic hacker, Vitally, can gain access to the camera. If Panasonic doesn't release an update, the camera cannot be hacked.

And then Vitally has to have the time and resources to devote to the hack.

Personally, I wouldn't put off a purchase decision waiting for something that is dependent on so many variables.


gibbo said:
Would be nice if Panasonic added Focus peaking in a firmware update too.
Click to expand...

As c&c says, Panasonic spokespeople have said this is not likely to happen. Yes, peaking would be nice, but I use expanded focus with manual lenses and it works fine.


gibbo said:
It's very tempting. Very very tempting. I just still feel there's something missing with the picture (someone else also mentioned this in another post on these forums, so at least I know now I'm not crazy!)
Click to expand...

I agree with c&c - it's all in the grade. I also agree that starting with cleaner footage is better. Have you seen this? RAW from the Blackmagic cameras isn't much better after Vimeo compression. It doesn't get any more "filmic" than this, in my view :)

http://vimeo.com/63792871

gibbo said:
I know the GH3 is suppose to have uncompressed out recording via the HDMI, but I haven't been able to find anything more about this other than "it's in the specs", have you stumbled across any links or videos Bill?
Click to expand...

Here is Atomos CEO Jeromy Young wandering around the show floor at Photokina 2012 with a Ninja 2, connecting it to all the new cameras to check for compatibility and clean HDMI out. The GH3 is at 1:19:

http://vimeo.com/49862540

There have not been a lot of GH3 videos recorded externally because the camera's internal codecs and bit rates are so good. Most people can't see the difference between the GH3's 8 bit 4:2:0 .MOV at 50mbps and the Ninja 2's 10 bit 4:2:2 ProRes at 220mbps - so they don't spend the money.

The GH3, at AUD$1401 straight out of the box (the price has gone down since my last post), doesn't need a $1000 external recorder to produce stunningly sharp and easily gradeable images :)

Cheers,

Bill
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
ajedproduction said:
Sorry to hijack this thread, I just wanted to ask, do you guys think this was filmed with a GH2/or GH3 or was it filmed with something even better? It's clearly not a canon dslr, it seems to have that lovely dynamic range the Panasonic's have and strong colours.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7n6TDXgpNlo

Any ideas? Yeah I've tried messaging the creator.
Click to expand...

To me, it looks "Canon soft" - but it doesn't matter, the guy does good work with what looks like very few resources (and he doesn't post production notes, behind the scenes photos/clips or long equipment lists).

I get the sense he doesn't really care about that stuff and just wants to make movies! More power to him :)
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Canon really? Damn I thought it looked too good for a canon dslr. To be fair though he's an actor from Twilight and the star of 21 and over, so I'm sure he's got his connections and lots of resources :P
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top