NTG-2 and what recorder?

F

fromdecember

I am slowly building my gear and my budget is limited, meaning very low. I am coming from a Canon 50d (magic lantern hack), Zoom H1 with a 'cheap' EM-320E shotgun microphone (http://cheesycam.com/em-320e-shotgun-microphone/ in case you never heard of it) to a Blackmagic Cinema Camera, NTG-2, and I have no idea what field recorder to get.

I've heard cons with the Tascam DR-40 and Zoom h4n with the NTG-2, and those being low volume I believe(?).

What are the cheapest, yet decent, field recorders to use with the NTG-2? I'm not looking for the actual best quality because I am a hobbyist and it's mostly for short films, documentary stuff, etc.

Thanks for any input!
 
Sort by date Sort by votes
fromdecember said:
I've heard cons with the Tascam DR-40 and Zoom h4n with the NTG-2, and those being low volume I believe(?).
Click to expand...

Not exactly. The NTG-2 does not have as hot an output level as some other shotguns in its price range. In addition, the pre-amps in those recorders do not offer as much clean gain (sometimes not as much gain, period) as one would hope. Put them together, and you have a mic that meeds more gain in the pre-amp and a pre-amp that gets noisy when recording levels are metering right.

You might look a little higher at something like the Fostex FR2-LE or the Tascam HD-P2.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
As AcousticAl notes, those recorders - while most common - are incredibad.

If you want the best, you might do:
NTG-3 into SD MM-1 into Sony PCM-D10 line in

To do decent, you might run that NTG-2 into something like, say, this.

Don't forget - you'll want a hyper for indoors, and good mic suspension for both (like an INV7)
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Sage Pictures said:
As AcousticAl notes, those recorders - while most common - are incredibad.
Click to expand...

Not exactly what I intended, though I am not a fan of Zoom recorders at all. The DR-40 is a useful tool, as are many other handheld recorders, but with limitations. If you understand the limitations and can work within or around them, you can get good results.

Sheerly on form factor, I don't like using a handheld as a primary recorder, but if it's what you have to work with then you need to figure out how to make up for its shortcomings, the biggest one being the pre-amp. The best thing to do is to add an external mixer or pre-amp. The Sound Devices MixPre-D is a high-quality, compact mixer. For less, the MM-1 offers a reliable Sound Devices pre-amp.

Sage Pictures said:
To do decent, you might run that NTG-2 into something like, say, this.
Click to expand...

Well, that doesn't really solve the problem. The DR-100mkII has essentially the same pre-amps as the DR-40.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
AcousticAl said:
Not exactly what I intended, though I am not a fan of Zoom recorders at all. The DR-40 is a useful tool, as are many other handheld recorders, but with limitations. If you understand the limitations and can work within or around them, you can get good results.

Sheerly on form factor, I don't like using a handheld as a primary recorder, but if it's what you have to work with then you need to figure out how to make up for its shortcomings, the biggest one being the pre-amp. The best thing to do is to add an external mixer or pre-amp. The Sound Devices MixPre-D is a high-quality, compact mixer. For less, the MM-1 offers a reliable Sound Devices pre-amp.
Click to expand...

Al - I agree.

Huge fan of working within the limitations of tech at hand (as opposed to the money hose)

& wrath is more so intended for the ubiquitous h4n (shiver while typing)

AcousticAl said:
Well, that doesn't really solve the problem. The DR-100mkII has essentially the same pre-amps as the DR-40.
Click to expand...

They do perform differently - with the 100m2 you have significantly lower noise floor/higher gain/more headroom
& you've the option of future expansion with a 'holy grail' digital output preamp
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
fromdecember said:
I am slowly building my gear and my budget is limited, meaning very low. I am coming from a Canon 50d (magic lantern hack), Zoom H1 with a 'cheap' EM-320E shotgun microphone (http://cheesycam.com/em-320e-shotgun-microphone/ in case you never heard of it) to a Blackmagic Cinema Camera, NTG-2, and I have no idea what field recorder to get.

I've heard cons with the Tascam DR-40 and Zoom h4n with the NTG-2, and those being low volume I believe(?).

What are the cheapest, yet decent, field recorders to use with the NTG-2? I'm not looking for the actual best quality because I am a hobbyist and it's mostly for short films, documentary stuff, etc.

Thanks for any input!
Click to expand...

Quite simply put the Dr-40 and ntg-2 suck together. I have both. ...but I've added an ART usb dual pre amp into the mix which is fantastic and cheap and runs on a 9v battery I've had great success
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
The issue with sound is that it is only as good as the person in charge of the sound (which also applies to every other discipline on the set).

Your personal situation will make a big difference in picking the right gear.

If you are shooting all by yourself get a Rode VideoMic or VideoMic Pro (VMP). Get the kit with the boom-pole, wind protection, extension cable, etc.

If you will have audio help of some sort (to at least swing the boom) I would recommend the Tascam DR-40, get a minimum of three battery packs, and choose between the Rode NTG-1 and the Audio Technica AT875. Get the full package - boom-pole, shock-mount, softie, etc. Find someone with an interest in sound to learn it and run it for you after you've got it all figured out.

The optimum, of course, is to not buy audio gear but retain someone who already knows the job.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Alcove Audio said:
The issue with sound is that it is only as good as the person in charge of the sound (which also applies to every other discipline on the set)
Click to expand...

Yes; on a given film, someone who knows how to use the gear (and brings higher quality gear of their own) is worth their weight in gold.

If you're to buy to learn, the NTG-2 is not exactly expensive at ~$230 on Ebay. Its a quality mic, and if you're going to spend money on equipment - make it count (buy once, cry once). Same goes for a 100mkII - why settle when its so inexpensive?

For that same reason, if you need gear for a professional feature film, I would settle for no less than the NTG-3 > SD MM-1 > PCM D10 combo (lowest price for that calibre). [and pair it w/ an AT4053b or MKH50] Spending on sound equipment is not quite like video - the very best around is not stratospherically priced, yet, every additional ounce of quality gathered on set is critical for the jujitsu required in post to take dialog up to the refined level. Spending on sound in advance is exponentially valuable in post.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Sage Pictures said:
... if you need gear for a professional feature film, I would settle for no less than the NTG-3 > SD MM-1 > PCM D10 combo ...
Click to expand...

Actually, that combo would be pretty much useless for most professional films, but that's another thread!

fromdecember said:
I've heard cons with the Tascam DR-40 and Zoom h4n with the NTG-2, and those being low volume I believe(?).
Click to expand...

Yes, there are cons with the H4N and the DR40 but there will always be cons with any of the pro-sumer level handheld recorders, which you won't alleviate unless you drop the cash and move into the professional range of recorders. Of the two you have mentioned, I would favour the Tascam.

As for the mic, personally I would avoid the NTG-2, unless you have a very specific reason/scenario for why you can't provide phantom power, and I can't think of such a scenario off the top of my head! The most applicable equipment advice for your situation I've seen in this thread so far is from Alcove.

D
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
AudioPostExpert said:
Actually, that combo would be pretty much useless for most professional films, but that's another thread!
Click to expand...
Actually, no. This is indietalk.com; the focus is on getting quality with out turning on the money hose. You could buy a 722/744t, but that is not such helpful advice for those trying to get audiophile feature quality on a budget.

AudioPostExpert said:
Yes, there are cons with the H4N and the DR40

As for the mic, personally I would avoid the NTG-2, unless you have a very specific reason/scenario for why you can't provide phantom power
Click to expand...
The cons are that they are terrible.

As the first post seems to point out, he already has an NTG-2 - and that was a damn good choice.

To the OP: You'll want to phantom power the Ntg-2. As anyone who is familiar with this equipment knows, the internal battery increases the noise floor of this particular mic.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Sage Pictures said:
Actually, no.

To the OP: You'll want to phantom power the Ntg-2. As anyone who is familiar with this equipment knows, the internal battery increases the noise floor of this particular mic.
Click to expand...

I find this a little strange....i solely use the internal battery on my NTG-2 to save power on my ART Pre having to supply Phantom power and it makes zero difference to the noise floor :)
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
SlaughterhouseFilms said:
I find this a little strange....i solely use the internal battery on my NTG-2 to save power on my ART Pre having to supply Phantom power and it makes zero difference to the noise floor :)
Click to expand...

Consider - if you've a piece in the signal chain that introduces a significant floor, other noise floor increases are obscured (give the NTG-2 a spin on SD, you'll be impressed - & not just by noise floor)
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Sage Pictures said:
Actually, no. This is indietalk.com; the focus is on getting quality with out turning on the money hose. You could buy a 722/744t, but that is not such helpful advice for those trying to get audiophile feature quality on a budget.
Click to expand...

Actually yes!!! I can only assume you have little/no experience of the audio working practices on professional films. It is standard professional practise, even for micro budget films, to use both lavs and a boom mic when filming on location. For a standard 2 actor scene that's 3 channels of audio which rules out both the MM1 and the D10. It's also standard professional practise to TC lock the camera and recorder, which rules out the D10 for a second time! And if all that weren't enough, you're not going to get audiophile quality on a D10 and NTG3 without perfect circumstances and even then probably not. Regardless though, the OP was not asking about professional (any budget professional) films or audiophile quality.

SlaughterhouseFilms said:
I find this a little strange....i solely use the internal battery on my NTG-2 to save power on my ART Pre having to supply Phantom power and it makes zero difference to the noise floor :)
Click to expand...

You mean it makes zero difference to the noise floor that you've noticed with your monitoring equipment. This statement is considerably different from saying it makes zero difference period! What's more, that difference changes as the internal batteries discharge. If you have the option, I would always phantom power a NTG2.

G
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
AudioPostExpert said:
Actually yes!!! I can only assume you have little/no experience of the audio working practices on professional films. It is standard professional practise, even for micro budget films, to use both lavs and a boom mic when filming on location. For a standard 2 actor scene that's 3 channels of audio which rules out both the MM1 and the D10. It's also standard professional practise to TC lock the camera and recorder, which rules out the D10 for a second time! And if all that weren't enough, you're not going to get audiophile quality on a D10 and NTG3 without perfect circumstances and even then probably not. Regardless though, the OP was not asking about professional (any budget professional) films or audiophile quality.
Click to expand...

I can see where you are coming from here. The term professional is at work, which is the classic minefield, and admittedly a sloppy use. No, you won't get timecode, or back up lav tracks. And another to add to the list - bringing a daisy chain of audio bits to set is a added worry, because of the added non XLR connection between preamp and recorder, and more batteries and settings to confound. Will it blow away any other equally priced recorder in sound quality? Absolutely.

The audiophile quality is very much dependent on the D10 line in & MM-1 combo bit. The line-in is exceptional, and the SD is, well, SD. The NTG-3 is a shameless refined copy of the decades old standard, the 416. Old school? Yes; and there are new shotgun designs that improve on it. But at the price - the tried and true sound, more familiar than any other in the film world (spare 641), it can't be beat. The bulletproof build, rf & humidity resistance is unmatched.

Now; for the professional, modern shotgun set: Schoeps CMIT 5U > 702T (2x COS 11D or Countryman B3 to second track)
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Sage Pictures said:
Will it blow away any other equally priced recorder in sound quality? Absolutely.
Click to expand...

Very possibly but of course the term "audiophile feature quality" indicates the very finest audio quality, regardless of price. Due to the logistics/practicalities of location filming it's extremely rarely possible to achieve "audiophile feature quality" even with the very finest equipment/personnel. In practise, "audiophile feature quality" is a combination of the finest production sound equipment, the finest production sound personnel plus the finest audio post equipment and personnel (and even then most commercial features rely on a surprisingly high percentage of ADR). Every one of these elements is beyond the reach of the vast majority of IT members (and of lo/no budget indie filmmakers in general). While it's extremely important for lo/no budget indie filmmakers to record the best quality production sound they can manage, it's not realistic to talk about "audiophile feature quality" and, by definition, "audiophile feature quality on a budget" is an oxymoron.

Sage Pictures said:
Now; for the professional, modern shotgun set: Schoeps CMIT 5U > 702T (2x COS 11D or Countryman B3 to second track)
Click to expand...

Recording both lavs to the same track would mean either mixing the output of the lav on the actor not speaking with the actor who is speaking and therefore adding the noise captured by the non-speaking actor's lav to the mix or it would require some deft (and potentially hazardous) muting on the part of the PSM, which depending on the delivery of the lines and number of actors may not be practical. Most commonly in audio post I would receive a boom mic track and then each lav on a separate track (or a separate channel within a polywav). Of course, this implies the use of at least a 744T and a 302, rather than a 702T and an MM-1 would not be sufficient in either case.

G
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
The audio guys' advice above is probably worth more than mine, but I used the DR-40mkii paired with the NTG-2 for my short and got some great sound. Look for deals on eBay and Amazon-- where I bought all of my equipment (except for a painter's pole from home depot that I used as a boom with an adapter from eBay).
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top