Non-Union Crew Rates

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dlfisher42

Hi,

I'm just looking for some reliable resources on non-union crew rates for Louisiana or Michigan. I realize Michigan is a UNION STATE, not a right to work state, but I would still think there might be some good information out there.

Thanks,
dlfisher42
 
I could give you Texas rates. Honestly I doubt they'd be that much different in Michigan.

You might try looking at Michigan and Louisiana craigslist pages.
 
Hi Paul,

That would be very helpful though having the information in Texas. I am sure it is quite similar as well.

Thanks.
David
 
I'm in Detroit, and rates can vary widely. I've been paid $300 a day to be a sound recordist, even though sound isn't something I've had a lot of training or experience with. I've also worked as a DP for $50 a day, or even for free or deferred (ie non-existent) pay if I think the project is worth doing. It all depends on what sort of project you have and how willing you are to use enthusiastic but relatively inexperienced people. Lately I've been producing my own projects with crews mainly comprised of unpaid students and people working for credit/experience. It's amazing how many talented people you can find around here who are happy to help out.

If you end up coming to the Detroit area I know quite a few people and could help you put together a non-union crew.
 
Hi SinEater, thanks for the post. We will be shooting over near the Grand Rapids area is the present plan anyway, as there are some free locations we can access there and the story is pretty location neutral. We were really hoping to get into the incentive program, but at the moment, the changes implemented in that regard make that opportunity look pretty grim, which is why Louisiana may well come into play. We are pushing $USD 1.3 million, so that is a lot of money to leave on the table if we can't get qualified in Michigan.

David
 
Even under the proposed cuts, there's still $17+ million left in play this year for the tax incentives. I wouldn't completely count Michigan out yet. As for crewing in the Grand Rapids area, I've worked with some great people from those parts.

As for rates, given your budget, they'd probably be a bit higher than what I mentioned before. It's harder to find people to work for peanuts when there's a budget of ~$1 Million. I'd say $300/day plus per diem would be a good start for the lower positions, with an experienced DP and Audio Recordist going for closer to $1000/day each. These are complete ball-park figures that should be double checked elsewhere, as I generally can't afford to pay close to that on my projects.
 
If you were to pay $30/hr to department heads, $20/hr to
assistants $15 to just about everyone else and $10 to PA's
that should give you a good base to cobble together a budget.

$300 for a 12 hour day is $21/hr
 
I know the IATSE rates, plus o.t. 21.99, 19.86 and 17.74, but that is above $1.5 mill and as much as I hope I can work with IATSE (good folks actually), it's the P&H which kills me and their view on O.T. But even at a 12 hour day, at Tier 1 rates, a Key is $306, but that is before the P&H, which is $70, making that $376, but again, that is full on union.

I simply can't imagine non-union approaching those amounts, but I also realize I could be horribly wrong too.

$1.3 mill with everything, festival budgets, p.r., etc, just isn't that much at the end of the day, so we have to try and save where ever we can, realizing of course, we can't edge on quality, on yes, it's a balancing act.

I do appreciate the input so far and am listening closely.

David
 
I have made movies for $500,000 paying those rates. You're right; it's
a balancing act and you have to save where ever you can. Trimming the
crew rates is all too often where producers trim.

Here in Los Angeles (which I know is very different than in Louisiana or
Michigan) the non union rates end up being very close to IA rates. The
producer saves in the P&W area. I have discovered that I can shoot fewer
days with an experienced crew than using a less experienced one. I have
also found that as long as what I call my "top five" are very experienced
(and highly paid) we gan get good quality with dedicated, lower paid crew
who have less experience. The trade off is more shooting days.

If you can't afford $20/hr then you should pay your top tier $15/hr.
($210/day). If you can't afford that then you can pay $12/$10/$8.
In some places those rates might attract plenty of experienced people.
 
SinEater said:
I'm in Detroit, and rates can vary widely. I've been paid $300 a day to be a sound recordist, even though sound isn't something I've had a lot of training or experience with. I've also worked as a DP for $50 a day, or even for free or deferred (ie non-existent) pay if I think the project is worth doing. It all depends on what sort of project you have and how willing you are to use enthusiastic but relatively inexperienced people. Lately I've been producing my own projects with crews mainly comprised of unpaid students and people working for credit/experience. It's amazing how many talented people you can find around here who are happy to help out.

If you end up coming to the Detroit area I know quite a few people and could help you put together a non-union crew.
Click to expand...

I have a friend that shot in Detroit (a native Detroiter) who got most of his help for free or very little pay. We're currently prepping a feature for the Detroit area and we have budgeted at least $75 a day for everyone (and of course higher for the key players), all the way down to PA's, so we're hoping to find some awesome help, although we hear the help is awesome no matter the pay. We hope having at least a decent day rate, and coming from California, I'd kill for a $100/day job.

That's the thing, there really is no limit to what you can pay on a non-union, independent production, but always remember not to insult anyone willing to help for little or free. At the same time, you want to make sure your prime movers (any indy set is going to be rife with friends and helpers and people not directly involved with film work) are well taken care of if your DP is lighting 75 set ups a day, you want to make sure he's getting paid at least a little more than the guy plugging in his stingers.

But hey, not all producers feel that way, they'll take whatever they can from you for as little as you're willing to give it up for, but always remember these type of producers don't tend to have a dedicated crew of loyal workers ready to make them the best movie possible.
 
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directorik said:
I have made movies for $500,000 paying those rates. You're right; it's
a balancing act and you have to save where ever you can. Trimming the
crew rates is all too often where producers trim.

Here in Los Angeles (which I know is very different than in Louisiana or
Michigan) the non union rates end up being very close to IA rates. The
producer saves in the P&W area. I have discovered that I can shoot fewer
days with an experienced crew than using a less experienced one. I have
also found that as long as what I call my "top five" are very experienced
(and highly paid) we gan get good quality with dedicated, lower paid crew
who have less experience. The trade off is more shooting days.

If you can't afford $20/hr then you should pay your top tier $15/hr.
($210/day). If you can't afford that then you can pay $12/$10/$8.
In some places those rates might attract plenty of experienced people.
Click to expand...

I'm out of California at the moment, but before leaving, people were accepting jobs at even lower rates than that, just because of the drought of work. But you're right, all too often I find myself on a set with great actors, director, writers, all working well to make something great, but some crappy camera guy getting paid $35 and a cheese sandwich keeps screwing up because he doesn't know the camera. Or something just as trivial, that could have been avoided if they would've spent $250/day on a decent camera guy (and even that's low end in LA) they could have saved shooting time that ultimately cost them more than $200.

Knowing which of these people are worth it, and which of these people are just talking right out of the seat of their pants, well, I suppose that's where the talent in hiring comes in.
 
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Well, we have decided to prepare our budget using the IATSE below $1.5 Mill contract, so we are hoping we can still get good people at 75% of normal Tier 1 rates, plus the full benefits agreement. We'll see. Thanks for the feedback.

David
 
directorik said:
If you were to pay $30/hr to department heads, $20/hr to
assistants $15 to just about everyone else and $10 to PA's
that should give you a good base to cobble together a budget.

$300 for a 12 hour day is $21/hr
Click to expand...

Would a DP and sound recordist count as "department heads"? For some reason, I had thought I'd be able to get away with paying a decent DP and sound recordist $300/day, each. Is it adviseable to budget more for those two positions?

Also, even if we're talking about a small production, the sound recordist is probably going to want at least one dedicated assistant, no? And a DP should probably need at least a gaffer and a grip? Or, if it's a small production, would my DP typically be pulling double-duty as gaffer, in which case I would only need to get a grip? All of this (for both audio and cinematography) is assuming I've got a couple PAs, as well.
 
Each production is different. Each area of the country is different.

For my projects, in my area your crew and rate of pay may not fly. In
your area those rates may be exactly right. For my productions I no
longer double up on positions. It's a matter of money/time. Crews
can get more done if each position is covered by one person. Getting
more done usually ends up with more set ups in a day and less stress
for the crew members.

It does cost more to have a larger crew, but for me it's worth it. In
you case having a "standard" crew might not be doable so you hire
who can afford.
 
Thanks. As a minimum, what would you call a "standard" crew (with no doubling-up of positions).

Also, there's a possibility I might want to shoot this in your neck of the woods. If that ends up being the case, are you saying that DP and sound recordist should each get something more like $400/day? Or more?
 
Cracker Funk said:
Thanks. As a minimum, what would you call a "standard" crew (with no doubling-up of positions).
Click to expand...
The absolute minimum I would consider working with on the lowest of low
budgets:
DP/operator
1st AC
1st AD
script supervisor
gaffer
dolly grip/key grip
grip/electric
grip/electric
makeup/costumer
set dresser/props
mixer
boom op
craft services/caterer

Cracker Funk said:
Also, there's a possibility I might want to shoot this in your neck of the woods. If that ends up being the case, are you saying that DP and sound recordist should each get something more like $400/day? Or more?
Click to expand...
With their own equipment, that's a fair - if low - rate here in the
L.A. area. Of course for a weekend shoot or three/four days you
could find experienced people for half that. But for a six day or
longer, that's what you should expect to pay.
 
It all depends on your budget. In Los Angeles you can get crew for $100 - $150 a day. The less you pay the greater the likelihood that some crew people will defect a day or two before your shoot (because they find higher paying gigs). So it's a double edged sword when you pay less.
 
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