No-budget filmmaking: When is it commercial?

[tothosefew]

My friend and I are writing, producing and editing our very first short film as a learning exercise to gain experience in all things film. We don't expect to make any money at, and we possess/borrowed most things that we'll need; 2 DSLRs, 2 tripods, slider, mic with dead cat, fig-rig, light stands, Premiere Pro and After Effects. It's not technically a student film although my partner is still in university.

We're a little nervous about attempting to film on public property without a permit. We only have one scene based in a park, so we asked the city and they said, "If you are filming for commercial purposes and are filming on City of Toronto streets, sidewalks, Park, you require a permit from our office." Permits require insurance, and insurance costs $$$ which we have none of.

What constitutes a "commercial filming purpose"? If we don't expect to make any money, but could possibly be submitting our film to festivals, is that a "commercial purpose"?

Any incite would be appreciated!!!

 

[directorik]

My friend and I are writing, producing and editing our very first short film as a learning exercise to gain experience in all things film. We don't expect to make any money at, and we possess/borrowed most things that we'll need; 2 DSLRs, 2 tripods, slider, mic with dead cat, fig-rig, light stands, Premiere Pro and After Effects. It's not technically a student film although my partner is still in university.

We're a little nervous about attempting to film on public property without a permit. We only have one scene based in a park, so we asked the city and they said, "If you are filming for commercial purposes and are filming on City of Toronto streets, sidewalks, Park, you require a permit from our office." Permits require insurance, and insurance costs $$$ which we have none of.

What constitutes a "commercial filming purpose"? If we don't expect to make any money, but could possibly be submitting our film to festivals, is that a "commercial purpose"?

Any incite would be appreciated!!!

In general "commercial" means you are filming this for the market - to
sell, to make a profit. Since you are not making this for commercial
purposes tell them. Go to the office where you get a permit and when
they ask "Are you filming for commercial purposes" you say, "No." Then
they will tell you what their requirements are.

 

[Alcove Audio]

Your project will only look as good as it sounds, because
"Sound is half of the experience"

If your film looks terrible but has great sound, people might just think it's your aesthetic.
If your film looks great and has bad sound, people will think you're an amateur.
Sound is the first indicator to the industry that you know what you're doing.


No matter what else you do, GET THE SOUND RIGHT!!!​

 

[kw0956]

Festivals are not considered commercial purposes, as films do not make revenue from premiering at a festival. Also - likely you will have a small cast and crew - and wont be super intrusive. They will most likely tell you that you can film without a permit.

 

[stef]

There's a bizarre can of worms that has opened up with many new licensing agreements that are related to the concept of "commercial".

Copyright used to be basically all or nothing... either it was with permission, it was Fair Use, or it was a violation. Today, copyright is often wrapped up in things like Creative Commons-Non Commercial, which raises questions like the OP.

When I release images to CC-NC, I explicitly tell the subject that using the images to market themselves is not considered commercial in the terms of this agreement (so they can use it to advertise themselves), but I spell it out that they may not enter it into contests with any kind of valuable prize. So, if I take bikini pics of someone, she cannot sell it to a magazine or enter it in a contest to win anything worth money, but she can put it on her comp cards or headshots or whatever.

Many festivals do have cash or valuable prizes.

Some people even consider putting it on your reel to get work is "commercial", but I call that editorial. It's like a resume.

 

[tothosefew]

Thanks for the responses everyone!

From asking around, it seems like the smartest thing is to use a small crew and minimal equipment when filming in a public space for non-commercial purposes. A photographer friend of mine got approached once because he was using his commercial looking equipment on a non-commercial shoot. If I keep it minimal, I think we could probably just tell anyone who asks that it's for a student film. My friend is still in school for film studies so we'd have a student card to back us up.

Thanks again guys! If you disagree with what I'm planning to do, let me know why it's a bad idea.

 

[directorik]

Thanks again guys! If you disagree with what I'm planning to do, let me know why it's a bad idea.

Not a bad idea at all.

Know the laws in your city. Here in Los Angeles where there is a LOT of
low budget, "guerilla" filmmaking police only show up and ask about permits
if there is a complaint. And even then the filmmaker is just asked to pack
up and go. So filmmaker need to be polite. It can't hurt to notify any nearby
businesses and keep any passersby informed.