Newbie with questions.

[Sam K]

Hey guys, I've recently picked up an interest in making films and editing them.
First a lil background:
I'm sixteen I live in France, and I don't have tons of money to go spending stuff on.
I've got an amateurish camcorder that I can use

. It's nothing great but it'll have to do.
I was set when my dad talked to me about Adobe After Effects, so I downloaded a trial, and will reinstall windows 7 when my trial is up and get the trial again etc.
So anyways here is a few of my questions: Is my camcorder that Bad really or could I like do stuff with it?
The biggest problem I see is that there is no Mic Input. So what are my options, knowing that I must keep this camera for a while and I'll only have enough money to get a new one by next summer if I get a job.
I'll be mostly filming close-ish to my house so is it possible for me to plug the mic into my laptop and save what I get off to the computer while I'm filming?.
What other low cost alternatives have I got?
I've been looking at a low price microphone that seamed ok but I'd like to know your guys opinion
http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/B-1.aspx

Thanks
Sam.

 

[grungedimi]

Hi Sam.

First of all, I'm not an "accomplished" filmmaker or anything, but that doesn't mean I can't help of course.

The rule of thumb is: Work with what you have. It's not because you don't have a RED cam that you can't have fun in the meantime. More importantly, you can still learn mostly everything: composition, lighting to some extent (even if it's f.e. natural lights only), editing, screenwriting, pacing, ... Okay, you will have limitations: lower quality images (especially in low-light situations), a depth of field that is waaaaay to wide (everything is in focus), etc. These are things you can learn later on with other equipment, but in the meantime you can still train train train with what you have. Your training will not be inferior if you start out with a handycam instead of something expensive.

Now, before I try answering your question considering audio recording, I have a question for you: What mic do you already have?

Anyway, yes, it's possible to record audio by putting a mic directly in your laptop. BUT I would not recommend it for the following reasons:
- A laptop's mic preamp (which amplifies the signal incoming through your mic) sounds pretty crappy. You will hear hums, hisses, other unwanted noise.
- Moreover, it's a relatively weak preamp, your signal will probably not be boosted enough (not enough "gain") to get acceptable volume levels, especially when you need to record f.e. dialogue while the actors are standing at some distance from your mic.
- A condensor mic could be used to get more gain, but of course you can't plug them into your computer, as they have XLR jacks (look it up in google to see what they look like) and need 48V phantom power.
- Even if you have a great mic, you should be aware of one of the prime laws of audio recording: "Your sound will only be as good as the weakest link in your signal chain." This could be debated somewhat... maybe... but what I'm trying to say is that even with a good mic the bad preamp will mess up your sound.
- When recording audio separately from your camera, you will have to sync it to video later on (in your editing program of choice).

I would consider just using the mic that's in the camera for now. It's far from ideal, but I think it's better than directly connecting a mic to a computer. Later on, you could buy something like a Zoom h4n (separate recording device) and a shotgun mic (f.e. Rode NTG-2) attached to a boom pole, if money allows it.

But the most important advice I can give you, is not to worry too much about image quality and such in the beginning. Don't let that keep you from training and having fun in the meantime. You know, in the end, I believe it's the quality of the filmmaker that really matters, not the quality of the equipment. Even though it helps .

Hope this was in some way helpful to you.

Dimitry

Note to others (*nudge nudge* Alcove *nudge nudge*): Please feel free to correct me if I said something completely wrong about the audio or if you disagree.

 

[Sam K]

Wow thanks a lot for the quick reply. It somehow makes sense. And yeah I agree that it's like with anything, the sneakers don't make the basketball player, just I'd rather wear some proper Nikes than flip-flops to play ball.
So if you advise me to not get a mic for now, within the 100euro sort of range( at +/- 20euros) what do you suggest I get equipment wise. Books, lights, anything etc.
I'd like any help.
And for now you don't have to be an accomplished filmmaker to seem like a genius to me

 

[grungedimi]

And yeah I agree that it's like with anything, the sneakers don't make the basketball player, just I'd rather wear some proper Nikes than flip-flops to play ball.

Yeah, I know the feeling all too well. But even the Nikes will give you the same message: Just do it. That is, learning with what you've got.

So if you advise me to not get a mic for now, within the 100euro sort of range( at +/- 20euros) what do you suggest I get equipment wise. Books, lights, anything etc.
I'd like any help.

First of all, you may want to wait for what the others have to say about this. Some may just have a point of view that's totally different from mine.

If you can find books in the library or some good stuff on the internet: read them all! They cost nothing and you can only learn from them. Watching tons of movies doesn't hurt either, paying special attention to "how they did things". Camera movements & angles, the way the plot is structured and paced, transitions between shots, the way they made use of sound, etc.

In terms of audio equipment, it's gonna be hard to give you some recommendations, given your price range and especially the fact that your cam doesn't have a mic input. That means you only have the two options I've mentioned before: use the in-cam mic or try directly connecting a mic to your computer (but I personally wouldn't buy a mic solely for this purpose). A separate audio recorder is always possible, no matter what camera you have of course, but it's a little above your price range.

There are pretty good microphones in that price range, but they are certainly not made for the purpose of field audio recording for movies. Remember: If you're going to record dialogues for your movies, you WILL need a shotgun microphone. They're intended to only pick up sound from where you're pointing the mic at, which is basically what you want in most cases. Ambient sound and/or sound fx can always be recorded later, ultimately to be mixed together in your editing software / sequencer.
So don't just buy for example a Shure SM57 just because you've heard they offer great quality for their price. They do, but they're for other purposes and will not work well for field recording.

I'd say that maybe you could save up, and wait a while till you have enough to buy something a little more expensive? You don't HAVE to spend your money. Even though video and audio equipment has become a lot cheaper, when compared to not so long ago, it's still going to cost you more than 100euro to get you everything you'd like. But as I said, I do know the feeling.

I'm actually pretty curious what others would answer to your questions.

And for now you don't have to be an accomplished filmmaker to seem like a genius to me

You're exaggerating juuuust a little bit here.

I still have a lot to learn too (especially about filmmaking, as I actually have more experience with music right now), and the things I do know now, I've mostly learned through research (books, internet, movies, music, audiophile sound designers) and doing (and quite often sucking terribly).

Research and doing you can do too.

Cheerio
Dimitry

 

[Sam K]

Thanks Again. And the 100euro price range that I have, is pretty much because I want what I ask for Christmas to be in this price range. I could push it and ask for more like I have done previous years and like I'm sure my little brother will do, but my parents are trying to save money for us to go on holiday to the states. And next year my brother is going to art school and the year after I might go to film school, so you know I don't wanna be greedy and ask for tons of stuff( or a very expensive thing).

So yeah it's basically what can I get within the 100euro price range for Christmas within the huge and vast Filmmaking topic?
(And if anyone else want's to answer my previous question, I need all the opinions I can get)

 

[NickClapper]

Hey Sam!

Your camera is more than fine to shoot films on. I haven't read what grundgedimi has said but I'll throw in my deux cents.

Not having a mic input shouldn't deter you. Sure the audio will be kind of jucky when you use the in camera noise, but it's fine for YouTube. Almost every video you watch on there has in camera audio so nobody expects more.

Not having a mic input isn't a big deal either, because once you are using a mic you'll want to be recording the sound using an external device rather than a camera input. You'll have to wait for Alcove to explain it to you, but suffice it to say that that won't be your biggest problem.

Just go out there and do it, don't follow my example, but get going!

 

[IndieBudget]

If you really want to save money you can get all your software free w/ Ubuntu Linux. You can get cinelerra and openshot for video editing. easy enough to partition a hard drive and install. Lots of tutorials on Youtube.

A cheap mic plugged into a Zoom H1 is good enough for starters. CAD CM217 is a cheap mic that can work in a pinch. You can get one for $60

To get good results with your camera, you will need plenty of light. Soft light is best. Shoot outside or get some paper light globes for inside shots.

ENJOY !
Create !

 

[Alcove Audio]

For a really fast catch-up on production sound you can read my blog here:

http://www.myspace.com/alcoveaudio/blog

Being Thanksgiving I can't give you a detailed response (20+ people coming over in about two hours) but will get around to it soon.

BTW, that Behringer is the total wrong mic for your applications unless you are doing music or commercial/doc style VO, and even then there are better options.

 

[Sam K]

Hey Sam!

Your camera is more than fine to shoot films on.

Yeah I suppose it's my beginner lack of technique that makes it look not that great.

Not having a mic input shouldn't deter you. Sure the audio will be kind of jucky when you use the in camera noise, but it's fine for YouTube. Almost every video you watch on there has in camera audio so nobody expects more.

Not having a mic input isn't a big deal either, because once you are using a mic you'll want to be recording the sound using an external device rather than a camera input. You'll have to wait for Alcove to explain it to you, but suffice it to say that that won't be your biggest problem.

Just go out there and do it, don't follow my example, but get going!

Right now I'm like who the hell is Alcove. ANd yeah I've shot a quick 1min15 movie with my bros, but my older bro was tight on time, so we've got litterally no Coverage ( Not that I knew what coverage was last sunday when we shot it). I'll finish FX over the weekend and have it published. I'll show you a link. It's pretty awful, but I'm proud of it nonetheless. I mean I should huh.

If you really want to save money you can get all your software free w/ Ubuntu Linux. You can get cinelerra and openshot for video editing. easy enough to partition a hard drive and install. Lots of tutorials on Youtube.

A cheap mic plugged into a Zoom H1 is good enough for starters. CAD CM217 is a cheap mic that can work in a pinch. You can get one for $60

To get good results with your camera, you will need plenty of light. Soft light is best. Shoot outside or get some paper light globes for inside shots.

ENJOY !
Create !

Hmm Thanks Did you read me all the way through? Thanks for the lighting tips though.

For a really fast catch-up on production sound you can read my blog here:

http://www.myspace.com/alcoveaudio/blog

Being Thanksgiving I can't give you a detailed response (20+ people coming over in about two hours) but will get around to it soon.

BTW, that Behringer is the total wrong mic for your applications unless you are doing music or commercial/doc style VO, and even then there are better options.

Oh so you're Alcove. I'll be waiting for your detailed response . In the meantime Thanks for the link to your blog, great stuff there mate

 

[IndieBudget]

Hmm Thanks Did you read me all the way through? Thanks for the lighting tips though.

yes I read .. I did not address the laptop idea.... I do not think a laptop will get good sound. The H1 is $100. You can even use a digital voice recorder w/ an 1/8" input jack on a budget. might even get one off Craigslist or ebay cheap

 

[Sam K]

Oh my bad I thought zoom whatsit was a camera haha sorry.

 

[Alcove Audio]

Zoom does make a (cheap) camera.

 

[Alcove Audio]

The truth is the cheaper you go the poorer your sound will be. That can be mitigated - to a degree - by learning proper sound and booming techniques.

Pretty much any of the super low budget recorders combined with super low budget mics will capture sound better than the on-camera mic, but will not approach what I would consider good sound, especially if you do not put the time and effort into following the advice in my blog and learning gain-staging, mic/boom technique and capturing room tones and wilds.

Recording directly to your laptop, unless you get a decent audio interface, will be much worse than using an inexpensive audio recorder; the so-called mic preamp is not up to the task. There are passable USB mic pres in the under US$100 price range. Just keep in mind that laptops are not conducive to guerilla and run-and-gun shooting.

 

[PaulGriffith]

The first few things I shot were basically silent movies. I added sound effects in post, but I didn't have budget for grea lt audio or great actors so I just focused on the cinematography and then editing for a while.

It's hard to learn lots of stuff at once and do it right. I think I'd recommend working on your camera and lighting skills, saving money for the next thing in the mean time. In a few months or six months or whatever of saving, you might have enough to buy a proper recorder and mic, something that will last you for years while you upgrade other things instead of an "I need it now" disposable solution.

 

[Sam K]

^this makes a lot of sense, And I can always add music to make up for em being silent .i might ask for pro scores from videopilot for christmas to not have any problems with copyrights .otherwise are lights a good investment? what could i get light wise for the same 100bucks budjet?.