Newbie Questions regarding beginner setup.

C

chichagof

Hey Everybody!

So glad I found this forum, as it seems you guys are very helpful.

I just recently decided to start making short films again in the hope of building up to a feature length project and I have no idea where to proceed from here.

I've been doing research on cameras, and honestly, I get a bit lost. Computers are generally my second language, but cameras, lenses, microphones, steadicam type rigs are all foreign to me.

my main question is, what's a good beginner setup when working with a sub-$1000 budget. This is mostly for a camera, and a lens. I just need to start shooting.

I've seen many debates on the 60d, 7d, 5d, GH2, t2i and I feel like my best options are the 60d and the GH2.

The only thing is the GH2 requires an adapter for a lot of the lenses i've seen suggested, which adds quite a nice pricetag to my original number.

What would you guys suggest?

Also, sorry for asking whit I'd assume to be a common question, but it seems search functions on fourms haven't evolved with the times, and I was left with posts completely unrelated to my questions!
 
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It is painfully obvious from my handle that I have a distinct bias, but your project will only look as good as it sounds, because "Sound is half of the experience."

You can easily spend ten$ of thousand$ on production and audio post equipment and software. Of course, most low/no/mini/micro budget indie types cannot afford this. This means that you need to make serious compromises. What sucks about compromises is that you need to increase your skill level (and expend more time; time = $$$, correct?) to compensate for your lack of budget.

The beginnings of a prosumer sound kit will set you back around $500.


Here are a couple of recent threads regarding audio that may interest you:

http://www.indietalk.com/showthread.php?t=46198

http://www.indietalk.com/showthread.php?t=44668
 
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Alcove Audio said:
The beginnings of a prosumer sound kit will set you back around $500.
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Really ? That's the lowest possible ?

For under 1000$, you have to consider the cheapest thing in every department. And for sound, that would be Rode VM + H1 + DIY BOOM POLE (and you'll have to learn to swing all of it).

For the camera, the cheapest around must be the T2i. Any lens will do for now, even the stock one.

You'll need a tripod with a fluid head.

And the rest on light stuff, SD card and batteries.
 
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Before the gear, you need a script with a story that entertains for your first film.

+1 with Alcove Audio recommending good audio with a good camera. The camera's built in mic is only good for amateur home videos.

And, you need editing software and hardware to edit what you shoot.

There is script writing software and budgeting and scheduling software as well to get organized.

You should also work with an experienced filmmaker and invest in filmmaking courses.
 
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He's not buying gear to make a feature.

He just wants to feel around with some decent gear and hopefully get a short or two out there.

Investing in filmmaking courses ? Really, you serious ?
 
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You could also volunteer as a PA on someone else's set (doesn't have to be professional, you can just look for a project that interests you). You won't make any money but you won't spend any either, and it's a great way to get a LOT of experience in a very condensed amount of time. Not only will you get your hands dirty by doing some actual set work, but you will be able to observe how the director, DP etc works to get things done (or doesn't work and things don't get done--either way you're gonna learn something).
 
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The most you can accomplish without classes, books, and crew experience is how to make a home video. You need to learn with classes and on hands experience. You can get interactive self study classes on DVD with classes such as the Action/Cut Filmmaking series and How To Make A Movie An Interactive Film School. They will give you the very basics to get started.
 
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TheArtist said:
He's not buying gear to make a feature.

He just wants to feel around with some decent gear and hopefully get a short or two out there.

Investing in filmmaking courses ? Really, you serious ?
Click to expand...

Thanks everybody for your input. I am planning on taking some filmmaking courses. I've worked as PA before, and my buddy has just recently finished his own feature film.

Honestly, right now I just want to start shooting. I'm a firm believer in learning on your own, but I also know how valuable group settings can add to your experience. Right now I just want a:
camera (i've decided on the GH2)
a cheap but capable wide angles lense (i'm assuming i'll need an adapter, so any tips would be helpful)
A cheap shotgun mic (Azden SMX-10 for starters)
a tripod, and a basic steadicam setup for tracking shots.

I've got an insanely powerful PC rig for editing, and the needed software.

but please understand, much like TheArtist stated, I want to get a feel for the camera, find my visual style, and make some shorts.

So really what I need are suggestions on a fairly low budget beginner setup.

Again, thanks for everyone's input, and I hope to hear more from you guys!
 
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chichagof said:
A cheap shotgun mic (Azden SMX-10 for starters)
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I would recommend avoid Azden. Their consumer products are poorly made and not repairable. Nady is not much better. I know it's (relatively) quite a bit more expensive, but you will get superior results with the Rode VideoMic. The Rode VM will also be useful later on when you decide to upgrade to a low impedance (XLR) audio system.
 
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Someone really should one day work out what good "Starter" kits would be, at different cost levels. Sure, not necissarily the best way to approach it if you have any experience (From what I've read. I"m in the "New and inexperienced pile) but for someone right out of the box who wants to try and do things "right" from the start...it could be helpful. Weird that no one's done it before, as far as I have found.
 
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Alcove Audio said:
I would recommend avoid Azden. Their consumer products are poorly made and not repairable. Nady is not much better. I know it's (relatively) quite a bit more expensive, but you will get superior results with the Rode VideoMic. The Rode VM will also be useful later on when you decide to upgrade to a low impedance (XLR) audio system.
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I was actually just researching the at835b, at a used price of 130, would that be a decent option, or ould you suggest the Rode to begin with.

Modern Day Myth Prod. LLC said:
The most you can accomplish without classes, books, and crew experience is how to make a home video. You need to learn with classes and on hands experience. You can get interactive self study classes on DVD with classes such as the Action/Cut Filmmaking series and How To Make A Movie An Interactive Film School. They will give you the very basics to get started.
Click to expand...

with all due respect, I'm not a fan of people telling me what I can or cannot accomplish. I understand where you are coming from, and I don't want you to take that the wrong way. In high school, with no budget, no experience, no classes, and no script, I made a short that entertained my entire class. A short which I plan on turning into a feature film at some point. I understand that seems like nothing to be proud of, but I have a vision, and a very (very) basic knowledge of filmmaking, and to say that all I am capable of accomplishing is nothing more than a home movie is insulting to say the very least.

Obviously I have no idea how everything works, that comes with time, and experience. As with any art form, though, you need a medium to get started. with film, it's a camera, just as with art, it's materials.

I will state again, I need help picking a setup that, while not professional, will allow for future work to be done. I want to get my hands dirty, and read books along the way.

ShadoeFox said:
Someone really should one day work out what good "Starter" kits would be, at different cost levels. Sure, not necissarily the best way to approach it if you have any experience (From what I've read. I"m in the "New and inexperienced pile) but for someone right out of the box who wants to try and do things "right" from the start...it could be helpful. Weird that no one's done it before, as far as I have found.
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I agree. Every DIY forum I've ever been on has had such a thread, from beginner/budget to professional/unlimited funds. who knows, someone may be working on one as we type!
 
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Stu (writer of Rebel without a crew) has a blog with a very limited starter kit (as a cinematographer, he didn't mention sound).

http://astore.amazon.com/prolost-20?_encoding=UTF8&node=26

About the steadicam... There is nothing "basic" about it. It's the most complicated rig to put to good use and will require countless hours of practice (and pain) before getting anywhere near good. But, once you get it, it can replace most of the other stuff you'd usually need, shoulder rig, sliders, cranes, dollys and what not.

The GH2 is an excellent choice (I suppose you're planning to hack it). How much are you paying for it ?

I don't know what you mean by wide angle, but if we mean the same thing, there are no cheap wide angle lens, especially on the GH2 which has a crop factor of 2.

And I don't agree with Modern either. You can go VERY far without ever setting foot in an overpriced filmschool. Obviously, that doesn't exclude reading a few books and learning on the Internet.
 
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Actually, what I'd love to see... and if and when I get more knowledge I might do... is several "Starter" packs for different income levels. The "under 1000" crowd vs. the "I've got five grand ready to go" crowd. Sure, the five grand is the better kit (Probobly) but you could learn and do alot (From what I've read) with a good, well thought out 1000 dollar kit I think. Again, I'm inexperienced, but I have been researching for some time. Sounds my weakest area.
 
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TheArtist said:
Stu (writer of Rebel without a crew) has a blog with a very limited starter kit (as a cinematographer, he didn't mention sound).

http://astore.amazon.com/prolost-20?_encoding=UTF8&node=26

About the steadicam... There is nothing "basic" about it. It's the most complicated rig to put to good use and will require countless hours of practice (and pain) before getting anywhere near good. But, once you get it, it can replace most of the other stuff you'd usually need, shoulder rig, sliders, cranes, dollys and what not.

The GH2 is an excellent choice (I suppose you're planning to hack it). How much are you paying for it ?

I don't know what you mean by wide angle, but if we mean the same thing, there are no cheap wide angle lens, especially on the GH2 which has a crop factor of 2.

And I don't agree with Modern either. You can go VERY far without ever setting foot in an overpriced filmschool. Obviously, that doesn't exclude reading a few books and learning on the Internet.
Click to expand...

I actually meant something similar to steadicam, like a glidecam or something similar to achieve a similar effect.

And thats probably not the right term for the lense, but a decent lense that allows for effective wide screen allowing for a more cinematic look (im hoping to achieve the "classic" film look eventually) but lenses are something i need help choosing. And yes, it will be hacked.

And yeah, oren peli is now a bonafide multi-millionaire without ever having made a short film, so that's that.

Can you explain to me, or link me to something that will explain how a crop factor of 2 will affect my needs for widescreen HD footage?
 
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You said wide-angle, not widescreen. That's two very different things.

Widescreen is a format of projection, like Cinescope (2.35:1). No matter the lens you used, you can get that, by cropping the top and bottom of the footage.

Wide-angle, well I don't think I need to explain. It's just the opposite of a large zoom. The crop factor part is a little bit complicated to be explained by me You'd be look it up on google and understand it by yourself. It's fairly easy to grasp.

For the "achieving the film look" part, there are many things that will play an equal role like composition, lighting and post-production.

What I said about the steadicam wasn't directed at a specific model but at the technique. So whatever you get, glidecam, steadicam merlin or some indian rip-off, what I said is till valid.
 
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This is what u need:

20120607PickYourPackage.png
;)



PS, you might also start considering WHERE ur going to show ur film products once u've completed them - THEN - figure out what the standards are that they require and assemble your gear and marketing approach from there.
 
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chichagof said:
I was actually just researching the at835b, at a used price of 130, would that be a decent option, or ould you suggest the Rode to begin with.
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The issue with mics that use a battery to power their internal phantom power circuitry (the AT835, AT897, Rode NTG-2) is low volume output levels.

Although the AT835b has long since been discontinued it is a passable mic. Just be sure that you have an ironclad return guarantee and have it checked out by someone who knows what they are doing if you are not 100% sure it is in top working condition.
 
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