Newbie question about cameras

S

SplinterX

Hello

Here´s the deal:

I´m very new to this thing and have never done anything. I´m looking to do a short film, but right now i can´t spend more than 400-500$ on a camera.

My question is:

Is it possible to make a short film with a 400-500$ camera without it ended up screaming "amateurish"? I know that with 500$ i won´t be able to make an amazing looking film, but is it possible to achieve a decent result with it? I don´t wanna end up making something that looks like crap.

Sony PJ 5 PR

Sony HDR-CX115

Samsung HMX-H300

Sony HDR-CX200

Any of these cameras would do a decent work?
 
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I dunno.

I think the RodeVideoMic comes with a hot/cold shoe mount, so it should slide into the one atop any camera with one.

hot-shoe-mount-263439.jpg



Just make sure the camera you're looking at has BOTH the hot/cold shoe mount - AND - the mic jack.
 
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rayw said:
I dunno.

I think the RodeVideoMic comes with a hot/cold shoe mount, so it should slide into the one atop any camera with one.

hot-shoe-mount-263439.jpg



Just make sure the camera you're looking at has BOTH the hot/cold shoe mount - AND - the mic jack.
Click to expand...

Nice

And in your opinion, a canon 1100d would be a better option than those 3 i talked about ?
 
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Well... you still haven't answered any of the fundamental questions I posed in my first post.

rayw said:
It's kinda difficult to figure what's a "practical camera" for using largely in Portugal, I'm guessing.
I just googled all of the cameras listed, only one or two had any of the normal search results I'm accustomed to seeing, so I'm guessing these are products offered locally/regionally that are not necessarily offered globally/U.S..
Correct?

What I'm getting at is that if you can buy literally ANY camera from ANYWHERE on the world then it doesn't matter and for the money you're looking to spend there are likely better options.
However, if you're limited to PAL or SECAM compatible products (maybe it doesn't matter, IDK) or something you want to buy at a physical store in Portugal then we can just deal with that search constraint and go from there with the provided list...

We could benefit from better understanding your usage, film product display, and purchasing limitations, assuming you actually are in Portugal most of the time.
Click to expand...

1. Are you in Portugal, and will that be where you'll primarily be trying to show your work? (There are coding and frame rate issues involved.)
2. Do you work with PAL or SECAM standards?
3. Are you picking cameras based upon what's available from a bricks&sticks store or off the internet?
4. Does your computer have the hard drive and RAM capabilities to handle only 720p, or can it handle 1080? I saw in a recent thread you were looking to buy another computer. What did you get?

Once you/we have established these four basic things then we can start realistically considering what camera is "best", "most utilitarian", or "least limiting."
 
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1. Are you in Portugal, and will that be where you'll primarily be trying to show your work? (There are coding and frame rate issues involved.)

Yeah, Portugal

Do you work with PAL or SECAM standards?

PAL

Are you picking cameras based upon what's available from a bricks&sticks store or off the internet?

I will probably buy from ebay UK, or from a store in Portugal

Does your computer have the hard drive and RAM capabilities to handle only 720p, or can it handle 1080? I saw in a recent thread you were looking to buy another computer. What did you get?

I haven´t bought the new computer yet. Right now i have a Presario CQ60. 3 GB RAM and 250 gb hard drive.
 
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Fantastic.
Thank you.

To go (nearly) full-spectrum camera shopping I went to B&H PhotoVideo where they have a wonderful screening process.

Began with PAL only cameras.
Then picked your price range: $250 - $500. (Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know you'll be paying in euros.)
Then the biggest d@mn CMOS chips they had in that price range: 1/4"
(Everything else is gravy after these limiting factors.)
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/searc..._PRICE_2|0&N=4294548092+4288580242+4205057912

Compare their tech specs (four at a time limit):
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/con...;;753502-REG;674845-REG;753474-REG;753540-REG
That Sony HDR-CX110E HD looks like the laggard here.

Next four...
Ah, heck. The next four are just cosmetic color differences.
Pick the last two instead and then first Sony for reference.
Hmm... can't compare with the Sony PAL/HDR-CX250.
Rats.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/con...18&items=;;;;674845-REG;760064-REG;759633-REG

The Sony HDR-CX160 HD has that mini-pin mic jack you'll need.
The only one out of this search.

No official Sony PAL/HDR-CX250 specs page.
So, I went looking elsewhere
http://www.jessops.com/online.store/products/84090/show.html
I'm looking to see if it has a mic jack.
And it does, as well as the "accessory shoe" for attaching the external microphone (which defeats the purpose of an external mic, BTW), and it has manual focus, but not manual exposure (aperture and frame rate) which will hurt you when you want to control your depth of field.

Back to the Sony HDR-CX160.
http://reviews.cnet.com/digital-cam...60/4507-6500_7-34468882.html?tag=mncol;subnav
See, it's there under "Connector Type" as "1 x Microphone."


Okay.
That just takes care of camcorders.
Searching for DSLRs isn't so easy.
There's no NTSC/PAL filter because 99% of "classic cameras" are bought to take pictures, not make videos, which is honestly a throw-in for them.

However, surely by now you understand the search process to continue doing your own homework.


Just like in woodworking: measure twice, cut once.
Do a lot of homework NOW, and not kick yourself later.
 
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I don't KNOW, but I imagine that would be a common sense consideration any sensible Portuguese store owner would have.
To only stock PAL camcorders.
Hopefully the most common video products they sell would be PAL, and NTSC would be a specialty item, whereas here in the States it's the other way around.

Another consideration, even when buying from UK ebay is to PAY ATTENTION! for the same thing.
The seller should be able to answer the direct question "Is this camera PAL standard?"

And again, with DSLRs posing as video cameras you might wanna ask some of IT's UK members if PAL and NTSC are even relevant issues.

At this moment I see board moderator Chilipie is available, as well as NickClapper and Phil UK; any of which could competently answer that.
I don't know much about DSLRs.

GL!
 
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rayw said:
I don't KNOW, but I imagine that would be a common sense consideration any sensible Portuguese store owner would have.
To only stock PAL camcorders.
Hopefully the most common video products they sell would be PAL, and NTSC would be a specialty item, whereas here in the States it's the other way around.

Another consideration, even when buying from UK ebay is to PAY ATTENTION! for the same thing.
The seller should be able to answer the direct question "Is this camera PAL standard?"

And again, with DSLRs posing as video cameras you might wanna ask some of IT's UK members if PAL and NTSC are even relevant issues.

At this moment I see board moderator Chilipie is available, as well as NickClapper and Phil UK; any of which could competently answer that.
I don't know much about DSLRs.

GL!
Click to expand...

Thank you. You´re a wise guy.

Would you choose the Canon E1100 over the camcorders i mentioned?
 
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I still have insufficient information to make that determination.

Ebay UK doesn't have one, anyway.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_trksid=p5197.m570.l1313&_nkw=Canon+E1100&_sacat=0

And I can't find any tech specs on it for some unknown reason.
Hmm... that ain't good.
It's been on the market for at least a year.
Even Canon doesn't have a spec sheet for it.
http://www.canon.co.uk/Search/index.aspx

Hmm... not good at all.


Found it:
http://www.canon.co.uk/For_Home/Product_Finder/Cameras/Digital_SLR/EOS_1100D/index.aspx?specs=1

WTH is a "DIGIC 4?"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIGIC#DIGIC_4
Hmm...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_EOS_1100D

No mention of a mic input on either the Canon or Wiki page.



Nah.
This looks more like a camera camera than a camera-that-can-be-also-used-as-a-video camera.

Final Answer: Nope. Not the Canon e1100.
 
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It'll handle the 720p fairly well.
But you'll get sick and tired of that before long and want to move up to 1080.

Get a camera with 1080 capability, shoot in 720p, edit it without computer-brain boggling delays, and upgrade both your computer and resolution at a later date.

If you buy a camera with 720p as a ceiling then that's what you're stuck with.
Your old POS computer has a short practical shelf life.
 
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Alright here is the thing about PAL and NTSC on a DSLR. I am in the uk and bought an american model of the Canon 550D, which is the T2i. You can change from NTSC to PAL and the otherway round. You can find it in the menu. If you intend to show your stuff on the internet like Vimeo or Youtube, it really doesnt matte what you shoot in. If you want to shoot for TV, check what you need!

The easy thing is this:
Canon 550D (Europe name for the camera, especially for europeean market)
Canon T2i (American name for the camera, intended for US use)
Canon Kiss X4 (Asia name for the camera. Intended for asia market)

Here is the deal: Because the 550D is the europe version, its much more expensive! I have the T2i and it does no more than the 550D and no less. Same with the X4.

I have no fricking clue about camcorders and all that cause the sensorsare way to small in my opinion, so i shoot with DSLR's or large chip camcorders only. What i can tell you is that the T2i/550D/Kiss X4 can shoot PAL or NTSC at 24,25, 50 and 24,30,60 frames. When shooting for the internet, don't worry about it at all! If i dont shoot for TV with my DSLR, i shoot NTSC, because of the 10 extra frames per second i get in 720p.

Phil

Phew, long post for 7am on an iphone. Excuse the typos
 
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SplinterX said:
Thank you very much.

One thing: Could a "lapel mic" be attached to a handycam and do a better job than the inbuilt mic?
Click to expand...

Reducing the distance between the microphone and the sound source is crucial in recording high quality audio. A £25 mic 6" away from somebody's mouth will sound better than one of these 10' away. Getting the mic off the camera and close to the person's mouth will get you better sound - buying a higher quality mic and putting it in the wrong place is an exercise in futility.
 
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chilipie said:
Reducing the distance between the microphone and the sound source is crucial in recording high quality audio. A £25 mic 6" away from somebody's mouth will sound better than one of these 10' away. Getting the mic off the camera and close to the person's mouth will get you better sound - buying a higher quality mic and putting it in the wrong place is an exercise in futility.
Click to expand...

The idea would be to attach a lapel mic to a camcorder
 
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SplinterX said:
The idea would be to attach a lapel mic to a camcorder
Click to expand...

I know, and what I'm saying is that a higher quality microphone isn't going to get you much better sound if it's still attached to the camera - you need to get the microphone off the camera and close to the actor's mouth.
 
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chilipie said:
...you need to get the microphone off the camera and close to the actor's mouth.
Click to expand...
SplinterX, to over-clarify the point:
- get the lapel mic "close to the actor's mouth"
- bridge from the mic to the camera's mic jack with an extension cord ("Low Impedance" is what I believe you'll be looking for. And as short as possible is better than long.)
- you will be recording audio on-camera using a mic that is gathering audio off-camera. (Simple enough? You're not recording using the on-board camera mic, in other words.)

- HOWEVER, all camera's of all makes and models and price ranges only record "fair" quality sound.
- WHEN your budget allows, buy an external recorder to record audio something close to "good".

A popular/preferred entry level external recorder is the Tascam DR100.



Keep in mind, poor audio quality is a MAJOR reason festival submissions are failed out of showing irregardless of the content's merit.
If it sounds like sh!t they ain't showing it.
Respect your audio perhaps more than camerawork. It's something that's real easy to dismiss as a "who cares?" when it shouldn't be.
 
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