Newb looking for advice: cameras, editing, and PCs

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SimonBeckford

I'm looking to get into filming, not sure where I'll go with it but especially looking at travel/adventure filming...more documentary style and mostly outdoors. I have decent experience taking stills with a canon dslr and a little experience editing with lightworks (because it was free).

I'm looking at getting a Canon 70D, as it's in my price range and seems solid for both photo and video. Also getting some pretty basic audio stuff. I'm wondering about lenses, the kit lenses seem decent but not sure what size I'll want for filming and the f/stop might be questionable for shooting in low light. My price range is 1.5-2k for camera/audio and all accessories/tripod etc.

I'm also getting a PC for editing (and some gaming). Can anyone point me towards the specs I should be considering for editing? Also, kinda lost on editing software...is lightworks good enough or should I go for something better?

I know I'm diving in over my head a bit, and I want a system that will give me room to expand. I've got some other ideas but trying to keep this short-ish so ask away if you want more info!

Thanks for any advice :)

- Simon
 
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$1.5k-$2k for everything.

Also, after some discussion with other folks it might be worth noting that I'm a huge fan of Alistair Humphreys (showreel here https://vimeo.com/122487245). I'm also aware that shooting video on a DSLR especially in an uncontrolled fast paced environment can be a pain.

In the long run I will probably pick up a dedicated camcorder as well...however I want to have a DSLR for stills. I could get both a lower quality DSLR and a camcorder now...but then I'd probably want two better cameras down the line.

Thanks for the feedback!
 
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For right now your best bet is a Rode VideoMic Pro ($200 to $300 depending upon accessories package). It has a forgiving polar pattern, is well built (for the price), and can be boomed when the opportunities arise.

You can go cheaper with the original RVM ($150 to $250) or really cheap out with the VMG (VideoMic GO).


From left to right - VM GO, VM Pro, original RVM.


21137d1295664886-rode-videomic-pro-vidmics-2.jpg



You may also want to consider some good headphones like the Sony MDR-7506.


Your project will only look as good as it sounds, because
"Sound is half of the experience"

If your film looks terrible but has great sound, people might just think it's your aesthetic.
If your film looks great and has bad sound, people will think you're an amateur.
Sound is the first indicator to the industry that you know what you're doing.


No matter what else you do, GET THE SOUND RIGHT!!!​
 
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LOL, I believe I spent your whole budget on a videocard in my computer ;)

Do you like Lightworks?
Use it :)
Check out what specs you need for it to run really smooth.
Also make sure your OS is not on the same physical drive as your footage and projects.
Ideally you have a seperate drive for preview files and such.
Having a SSD for the OS will make it run more smoothly, but might be out of budget.
 
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Awesome advice...thanks! Yeah, for sound I was looking at a Rode VM GO with a fluffy wind thing...and expecting I'll upgrade to a Rode NTG2 once I can afford it. Also a Zoom H1 for ambient sound and a lav mic (probably a crappy one at first) for voice. I really appreciate sound in films, and you're totally right that it's AT LEAST half the experience.

Also, my computer budget is separate and I'm also going to be using it for some gaming...I looked up the Lightworks recommendations and will compare those to the suggestions my gamer friends have given me.

Again, thanks for the responses! Huge help :)
 
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SimonBeckford said:
I really appreciate sound in films, and you're totally right that it's AT LEAST half the experience.
Click to expand...

I think that you had better step back a minute. You say that you "really appreciate sound in films" and that I am correct that sound is "AT LEAST half the experience." Then you decide to buy a couple of toys (RVM GO, Zoom H1). If sound is HALF of the experience shouldn't you be spending half of your budget on sound? Unrealistic, I know, but at least invest in quality, which is why I recommended the VMP. It will last you a long time (I'm already hearing negative stories about the RVM GO) and has applications as you upgrade.
 
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BTW, an NTG-2 is probably the wrong mic when you upgrade, which is why I recommended the VMP; it should last quite a while, probably even until you can afford to retain a competent production sound person.
 
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Well...I'm really liking the Rode NTG2, probably with the Zoom H4. My thought was to go with the camera first because I need it for stills as well, scrape by with low end audio while I learn my way around the camera, then spring for good (and more expensive) audio first chance I get. As it is the $500+ (ball park, see links below) for the audio I want would mean a much lower end camera. I strongly considered the Rode VMP but it didn't seem worth it since I plan on upgrading any way.

Yeah...might not be the best call though...will have to think about it more.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/400806-REG/Rode_NTG_2_Battery_or_Phantom.html
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/392861-REG/Rode_DEAD_CAT_Dead_Cat_Wind_Muff.html
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1116977-REG/zoom_zh4nsp_h4nsp_handy_recorder.html
 
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Hmm, 9V batteries are less awesome for me because they can't be recharged (as far as I know).

Any suggestions on a mic that runs of something I can recharge? Or lasts longer? Or something?

9V isn't a total deal breaker...I'm just really not a fan :)
 
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SimonBeckford said:
Oh, why not the NTG2?
Click to expand...


Because shotgun mics have a very narrow (lobar) polar pattern. As previously mentioned, the VMP is more forgiving with its supercardioid polar pattern. Unless you will have a dedicated boom-op I would stick with a supercardioid or hypercardioid since you are going to be camera mounted.

tumblr_ldh7pwSbDq1qcat6m.png


I very seriously recommend that you invest in "The Location Sound Bible" by Ric Viers; a good look at the basics of production sound.
 
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That book looks great! Would it still be relevant even though I'll mostly be shooting outdoors?

Also, regarding mics...my impression was that the whole point of shotgun mics is that they only record what's right in front of them...and that this is good when shooting outdoors especially in more dramatic situations with lots of ambient sound. My impression was that ideally you would use a shotgun mic along with a second mic for ambient sound if you wanted that as well. But as the post says I'm a total newb, so all this advice is awesome!
 
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SimonBeckford said:
That book looks great! Would it still be relevant even though I'll mostly be shooting outdoors?
Click to expand...

As it is a book about production sound, and films are shot outdoors, yes, it will talk about shooting outdoors.

SimonBeckford said:
Also, regarding mics...my impression was that the whole point of shotgun mics is that they only record what's right in front of them...and that this is good when shooting outdoors especially in more dramatic situations with lots of ambient sound. My impression was that ideally you would use a shotgun mic along with a second mic for ambient sound if you wanted that as well. But as the post says I'm a total newb, so all this advice is awesome!
Click to expand...

Yes, the directionality of a shotgun mic is highly desired outdoors. However, a shotgun mic doesn't magically eliminate unwanted background sound. A shotgun mic requires precise aiming, and that cannot be accomplished on top of a camera unless you are only doing full-on face shots.

Ideally the shotgun mic is above and in front of the subject, aimed at the notch at the base of the throat. The further away a shotgun mic is the more precise the aim needs to be. Professional boom-ops are constantly changing the aim from actor to actor, doing it silently, while avoiding making shadows and trying not to trip over cables, bang into light stands, etc., etc., etc.

Unless you are doing documentary work you do not capture ambience on the set. For narrative work (at least at the mid and big budget levels) everything except dialog is added during audio post, and, depending upon the type of film, anywhere from 10% to 50% of the dialog is not what was originally recorded with the visuals in the final edit.

Even in documentary work they don't record ambience during interviews, they record it while shooting B-roll and sometimes even separately from the camera crew. Indeed, the challenge for documentarians is the same as indie filmmakers, getting clean intelligible dialog in difficult locations. The documentarian has an few advantages, however; it doesn't matter if the mic is seen, and the subject is quite often very stationary.

Read the book. It's a place to start.
 
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SimonBeckford said:
I really appreciate sound in films, and you're totally right that it's AT LEAST half the experience. ... My thought was to go with the camera first because I need it for stills as well, scrape by with low end audio while I learn my way around the camera, then spring for good (and more expensive) audio first chance I get. As it is the $500+ (ball park, see links below) for the audio I want would mean a much lower end camera.
Click to expand...

Hmmm. The first thing you perhaps need to understand is that digital technology has revolutionised the camera world; high resolution images, all sorts of "magical" functions which once had to be accomplished manually or couldn't be achieved at all and at a price dictated by relatively cheap computer chip technology. Microphones on the other hand are analogue devices, they have of course improved over the decades but they're still essentially the same dumb devices, based on nearly century old technology. Mics don't even have manual zoom or focus, let alone a host of automatic functions. If you want to focus or zoom a mic you have two choices; move the mic or move the subject you're recording! This is the main reason why, a lot of the time, you're not going to get good sound with the mic fixed to your camera, even with a top of the range pro mic, let alone a consumer grade mic! As Alcove suggested, get yourself a decent set of headphones to monitor your sound. How easy would it be to manually focus a camera without a viewfinder or a screen to monitor the image?

If you just want to practice with your camera for now, no problem; use the mic built into your camera and when you're ready to think about sound, use the money you'll have saved from not spending it on consumer toys now, add a bit extra and buy yourself something half decent. Remember what I said above though and what Alcove mentioned, ultimately you're going to need someone to do the sound for you, if you want reasonably decent results. BTW, the same philosophy goes for wind-shields, they don't actually shield the mic from wind, they just reduce wind noise "somewhat", depending on how the mic is positioned relative to the wind.

G
 
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Welcome to the first episode of "So you've got $2,000 for a camera setup!" Let's begin. So you want a Canon 70D. Cheapest scenario I can find: pick up the EOS 70D EF-S 18-55mm IS STM Lens Kit Refurbished directly from Canon for $830. A Zoom H4N will run you $200. You can get the previous generation Rode Videomic Pro for $215. That's $1,445 not including taxes and shipping. If you mine eBay you can probably knock off up to $50 each on the audio equipment. All the fixins will get you to $2,000.

I'm not saying this is ideal, but it's doable. I'm in a similar situation and I chose to go in a much different (cheaper) direction which I can outline later if you'd like.
 
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murmer said:
Merely because it seems to be standard for new independent filmmakers.
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True, but most "new independent filmmakers" approach filmmaking as if sound were about 5% of the experience, unlike the OP who said that sound is "AT LEAST half the experience".

According to the OP, the ultimate minimum audio setup would be: A 4 channel recorder, a wired lav, a shotgun/short shotgun mic and a stereo mic. Which would rule out the H4n!

G
 
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