Need help buying first filmmaking camera

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dgwow123

As this is my first post here I'd like to welcome myself to you guys!

I am a mechanical engineer fresh out of McGill University (Canada) who always loved film but never really made the effort to learn on my own. I've been wanting to pick up filmmaking as a hobby and would like to know what the best camera/lenses to start out with.

What I am looking for:

-The best image for the price (<$1000, not including lenses)
-The ability to create a "cinema" like image (not overly shadowed, shallow DOF, wide aperture)
-Good for all genres of filmmaking (action, romance, epic landscapes, etc)
-A good degree of future-proofing (I can use it to make some serious stuff eventually)

Some other things I am looking to clarify:

-I don't mind hacking the firmware if that helps. I read about Magic Lantern as well as shooting RAW, and how the image quality is much better, maybe you guys could clarify if it's really worth it, because the views were confusing. Some people were saying to shoot RAW for cameras with slower write speed like the t2i whereas some were saying it wasn't worth it for anything less than the canon 7D because of the lower max resolution. I would be interested in shooting RAW if the camera was good at it.

-Is image stabilization necessary for all camera lenses when taking video? I have read conflicting comments, some say you only need it when handheld shooting while others and that it messes up when you keep it on with the tripod, while others say it helps in both cases.

I don't mind choosing between a camcorder or DSLR, as long as they satisfy the criteria above.

I seem to be leaning towards the Canon t2i because of its value for money (apparently same sensor as 7D) which will let me buy some good lenses (looking at sigma 17-70mm f2.8-4, canon 50mm 1.4/1.8). The one problem with the t2i seems to be its low write speed (20mb/s). However, I want to make sure there aren't cameras out there with better picture without breaking the bank. Other cameras that also look interesting are of course the 7D and the Panasonic GH3, Blackmagic Pocket Cinema.

Thanks for sharing! :)
 
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P-bucket compresses the crap out of those, so you'll have to trust me; they are much more detailed & artifact free

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brunerww said:
No - the GH2 was hacked to increase its bitrate from its maximum "high" bit rate (HBR) mode of 1080/30p at 24mbps to ~50 to ~200mbps. Without the hack, the GH2 was a good camera, but not great, due to compression artifacts and low light macroblocking.

The GH3, on the other hand, records at 50mbps IPB and 72mbps ALL-I straight out of the box. There wasn't really a lot of demand for hacking the camera because it already resolves images very well and has very little artifacting.

I doubt that the 1080p 200mbps/4K 100mbps GH4 will be hacked either :)

Cheers,

Bill

P.S. - I'm not a hacking kind of guy - so, instead of hacking my GH2, I just bought a GH3.

P.P.S. - just saw that you are leaning towards the GH2. It's a great camera, and I still have one as my C cam, but be advised that, at some point in the future, you may wish that you had 1080/60p, a headphone jack, a weathersealed body and a standard 3.5mm mic input jack. I know did.
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60p is really nice to watch. I saw some videos on youtube of the GH4 and was wowed by the quality of the fast moving scenes. Specificially these two videos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isLmaGVkPlo, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LATgBI4gkmk.

I'm still evaluating cameras and might even up my budget if it's worth purchasing something like the GH4 (my brother wants to chip in if I get something really good).
 
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dgwow123 said:
I'm still evaluating cameras and might even up my budget if it's worth purchasing something like the GH4 (my brother wants to chip in if I get something really good)...
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If you can afford it, I think that's the right decision.

I was able to buy a used GH4 body for $1499.95 this morning at B&H. If you keep your eyes open, you can pick one up used from B&H, Amazon Warehouse Deals, the Adorama Used Store or eBay and save some money.

Good luck!

Bill
 
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brunerww said:
If you can afford it, I think that's the right decision.

I was able to buy a used GH4 body for $1499.95 this morning at B&H. If you keep your eyes open, you can pick one up used from B&H, Amazon Warehouse Deals, the Adorama Used Store or eBay and save some money.

Good luck!

Bill
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That's a nice deal, congrats Bruner! Unfortunately I live in Canada where they sell the cameras for a bit more used (it seems). I changed my mind to the GH3 for the higher fps and low light capability, DR, and some other stuff. I've contacted someone regarding a used camera at 900$ CAD. I think that I'm making the right choice but I just wanted to get your feedback :) Thanks again everyone for the advice!
 
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dgwow123 said:
That's a nice deal, congrats Bruner! Unfortunately I live in Canada where they sell the cameras for a bit more used (it seems). I changed my mind to the GH3 for the higher fps and low light capability, DR, and some other stuff. I've contacted someone regarding a used camera at 900$ CAD. I think that I'm making the right choice but I just wanted to get your feedback :) Thanks again everyone for the advice!
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Good decision. The GH3 is a great camera, and, out of the box, better than the GH2.

But instead of buying used, I recommend a brand new GH3 from Amazon Canada for $1074.27 CAD with free shipping for the sake of the warranty. A single repair is likely to cost you more than the $174.27 you would save by buying the $900 used camera.

Best of luck!

Bill
 
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dgwow123 said:
I've been wanting to pick up filmmaking as a hobby and would like to know what the best camera/lenses to start out with.
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To be honest, nothing you've said in this thread indicates that you are interested in filmmaking. Photography/Cinematography certainly but filmmaking, not so much! Of course, I've got absolutely nothing against you wanting to be a hobbyist cinematographer, as long as you realise that's what you're doing and don't confuse being a cinematographer with making films.

You have basically two choices as far as filmmaking equipment is concerned, either: 1. Become just as keen and knowledgeable about audio and audio equipment as you are about photography and cameras, or 2. Concentrate on the cinematography side of filmmaking and find someone with whom to collaborate who is as keen/knowledgeable about the audio side of filmmaking as you are about the photography side.

I am of course assuming that ultimately you are aiming to create films which are as good as your available time allows, rather than ultimately aiming to create poor films with nice looking cinematography.

G
 
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AudioPostExpert said:
To be honest, nothing you've said in this thread indicates that you are interested in filmmaking. Photography/Cinematography certainly but filmmaking, not so much! Of course, I've got absolutely nothing against you wanting to be a hobbyist cinematographer, as long as you realise that's what you're doing and don't confuse being a cinematographer with making films.

You have basically two choices as far as filmmaking equipment is concerned, either: 1. Become just as keen and knowledgeable about audio and audio equipment as you are about photography and cameras, or 2. Concentrate on the cinematography side of filmmaking and find someone with whom to collaborate who is as keen/knowledgeable about the audio side of filmmaking as you are about the photography side.

I am of course assuming that ultimately you are aiming to create films which are as good as your available time allows, rather than ultimately aiming to create poor films with nice looking cinematography.

G
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Hi AudioPostExpert,

Thanks for the reply. I'm starting out from scratch so I decided to focus on one thing at a time. Of course I know there's lots of other equipment that I have to purchase as well, I want to learn about cameras and lenses first but I'm also planning on investing in sound (zoom external recorder, rode video mic), a glidecam and other equipment.

I'll make a separate thread if I have any questions for other equipment besides cameras. Next up for discussion will be lenses though.
 
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dgwow123 said:
I'm starting out from scratch so I decided to focus on one thing at a time. Of course I know there's lots of other equipment that I have to purchase as well, I want to learn about cameras and lenses first ...
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Filmmaking covers a large number of crafts and each of those crafts encompass a considerable body of knowledge and skill. Trying to focus on one thing at a time can only result in you either making poor films in which one of the crafts is reasonably well executed or will result in you never getting around to actually making a film.

Of all the decisions involved in making a film, the choice of which camera to use is a relatively insignificant one! The fact that you seem to want to start/focus on this relatively insignificant decision indicates that you are interested in cinematography rather than in filmmaking itself. Of course though, it's your hobby and entirely up to you what it is that you actually end up making.

G
 
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AudioPostExpert said:
Filmmaking covers a large number of crafts and each of those crafts encompass a considerable body of knowledge and skill. Trying to focus on one thing at a time can only result in you either making poor films in which one of the crafts is reasonably well executed or will result in you never getting around to actually making a film.

Of all the decisions involved in making a film, the choice of which camera to use is a relatively insignificant one! The fact that you seem to want to start/focus on this relatively insignificant decision indicates that you are interested in cinematography rather than in filmmaking itself. Of course though, it's your hobby and entirely up to you what it is that you actually end up making.

G
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Yep, the quality of my first attempts will probaby suck while I wait to learn about better equipment, but I'm taking this slow, I'm not going to make any major projects until I have all the equipment necessary and familiarity with them.
 
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Obviously Audiopostexpert is right, but I'm not sure I agree with having that kind of attitude as a beginner. As a newbie you're always gonna make crappy films and that's not a bad thing. That's how you learn, from making mistakes. If getting a camera and learning about cinematography means you actually go out there and makes films then do it! I was like you in that I started off focusing on cinematography and didn't have any equipment or knowledge about sound. So I started off making silent films or at least films driven by music and voice over.

It's better to be out there making films(even if their not very good) than to be sat there procrastinating and worrying that you're sound knowledge isn't up to scratch yet so you don't wanna make a film with bad sound. There's some guy on this forum, I think his name is Harmonica who is in exactly that dilemma. Worries so much about mastering the different aspects of filmmaking and he's yet to make a single film despite having over 4000 posts....

Just do what you need to do and take it step by step if you have to. Just work around your short comings like maybe doing films with no dialogue at first if you wanna focus on cinematography.
 
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Gimme advice

Hi guys,

i'd like to ask your advices!
I am making films one year ago, i've learned everything by myself, and i work with gopros. Mostly i make films about adventure trips and sports. Usually the gopros are enough for that, but i want to improve my quality, with a DSLR or MILC camera. I prefer the DSLR because i love to make photos too, and for example in the Dolomites its highly recommended, to shoot some too... :)
However i have to carry all my equipment, so its not the same how much weight i have... These are my criterias, i would like a machine for fullHD (60FPS) video recording, for photos, and i don't need a sherpa, to bring with me! I know there is no machine for all of my wishes, but i trust your experience, which is more than my... :D
If somebody interested in my films, i can send a link, i think its not proper to put it here...

Thanks,

mixlevi
 
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mixlevi said:
Thank you for your help guys!
And what do you think about the new gh4? its a bit expensive, but if its worth it, i'll think about to collect the money for that...
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If you can afford it, for adventure and sports video, the GH4's 1080/96fps slow motion alone would make it worth the money.

It is also all-metal and more robust than the plastic G6.

I have one and recommend it highly.
 
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