Music Budget?

M

MaximusXXX

Figuring out the budget before-hand, I considered that at least 50% should be devoted to the sound since that is a big part of the story.

The budget I have planned out right now is in the range of $1,000 however all the funding is not yet secured although a loan could be taken if direct payment was needed.


What is a fair music budget for a film hovering around 2k total cost?


UPDATE
I have a friend helping with storyboard for free.
I have a friend helping with directing, for free, he also has substantial camera experience.
Casting fees will be next to nothing unless I decide to pay some gorgeous models for their time.

Right now the budget is $500 for a two week rental of one camera. I may opt to rent two cameras however for $850.

I can dedicate up to $1,000 JUST on the sound.
 
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For a feature? If not, how long?

Looking for a composer to score it or use existing tracks like your other thread?


50% of a budget is a LOT for sound. Don't kill me sound guys, I agree that 50% of the experience is sound, but the visual 50% costs incredibly more than than the audio 50%. Consider set design, actors, lightning, camera equipment, camera crew, makeup and that's just scratching the surface of production, not even getting into post.

But yeah, hard to gauge at all without knowing length and plans for it.
 
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if the film can help elevate a composers' reel, some will do it for a cut rate, some will work for credit.

Since you're in Toronto, why not shoot me an email? maybe I can help.

Best luck.
~Russell
 
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PaulGriffith said:
50% of a budget is a LOT for sound. Don't kill me sound guys, I agree that 50% of the experience is sound, but the visual 50% costs incredibly more than than the audio 50%.
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If it were "John Carter" and it's $300 million budget I would agree with you, but we're talking about a $1k indie project. Assuming that it's a short and that all of the gear is in place, paying the DP and the PSM/boom-op a $250 stipend each for a few days shooting is not outrageous. Making another assumption that Maximus will be doing the visual and audio editing himself a $100 stipend to a composer looking to add to his/her reel would be fair. That leaves $400 for feeding the cast and crew and other misc. expenses.
 
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Was looking at a movie on tv this weekend and lo and behold, the film had the buy out music I used in my last feature. Confirms what I said about the increasingly high use of buy out royalty free music.
 
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Music is, of course, always negotiable. I've done stuff for free, for a pizza, for a case of beer, for cash, etc. There will (and should) come a point where I only do a cheap/free project for a VERY good reason, but there are plenty of composers whose career is where mine is. On my feet, but not yet running. Never hurts to ask (maybe Russell will get the job done for you! Another fine IndieTalk collaboration!) and if you do well by your music guys (slide them cash when you can, are polite, etc, etc), they'll do well by you.

As Maurice mentioned, lots of people are using royalty free music. Hell, one of my favorite films (Night of the Living Dead) was done with library music. However, here's a couple good reasons not to:
1) working with a composer you'll learn to work with a composer. You film guys and us music guys don't speak the same language, exactly. We need to learn yours and you need to learn a bit of ours. Communication is important and the only way you can really learn how to do it is to do it. Maybe this doesn't seem that important now, but if 10 years from now you're ready to hire Danny Elfman, it WILL be important, yanno?
2) as you are learning and developing your skills, you give a chance for someone else to do the same. John Williams will eventually retire. Who will the next generation be? Music school graduates? Most of them, probably. Self-taught indie guys? Possibly a few. And if you're trying to be one of those few yourself, why not help someone else the same experience that you're trying to get? We're all in this together!
3) flexibility. Say you get a cue back and want the tenor sax replaced by a banjo (why not?). Working with a library, it's probably not going to happen (though some have composers on staff to keep this sort of flexibility). Working with a composer, there's a chance. Not a guarantee (not everyone plays banjo, or has a good banjo sample library, etc), but a possibility.

I could go on and on, but you get my point. Lots of people willing to work cheap/free, and lots of good reasons to do so!
 
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I tried to make a movie for about 1000 bucks a few years ago (remember the Sony VX2000?) but the sound was so freakin awful I abandoned it. It ain't the picture that renders a movie unwatchable, ironically it's the sound. Not clear on the details but hire a sound person who knows what they're doing. Plus Bring he sound guy scouting, ask them if they foresee any issues. Their input is as important as the DP and they may have valuable thoughts on issues that will screw you on the day. As for music- start looking now for composers and bands that are looking for a break. Get everything in writing.
 
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i'm slowly building my own "rig" for doing simple film via DSLR... one area I don't want to skimp is on live sound recording.

If you have a friend with a boom/sock/field-recorder set up, feed him well. It may seem inconsequential but in the end good sounding dialogue recording is critical.

edit: ziggy is bang-on. If you're getting music - whether bands, written to your picture, or otherwise, have and/or understand what contracts and limitations are being placed. Smart bands and composers will have contracts ready - the ones not prepared will sign yours. I'd guess the majority of composers will not sell music if the payout is low - they'll license it.
 
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Maurice said:
Was looking at a movie on tv this weekend and lo and behold, the film had the buy out music I used in my last feature. Confirms what I said about the increasingly high use of buy out royalty free music.
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It is true that when you use royalty-free music from a library there is always the chance that it will have been used in other films, like the experience you just had. That may or may not be a problem in some cases. Sometimes having something that sounds familiar in your film can actually be almost reassuring, and a positive thing. Other times it could be "oh no not that song again!"
The advantage of using music from libraries is that it is quick and cost effective. A sensible way of approaching the music side of things is sometimes to use a composer for critical bits, and use music from a royalty free music library for other parts of the film.
 
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Ziggy said:
I tried to make a movie for about 1000 bucks a few years ago (remember the Sony VX2000?) but the sound was so freakin awful I abandoned it. It ain't the picture that renders a movie unwatchable, ironically it's the sound. Not clear on the details but hire a sound person who knows what they're doing. Plus Bring he sound guy scouting, ask them if they foresee any issues. Their input is as important as the DP and they may have valuable thoughts on issues that will screw you on the day. As for music- start looking now for composers and bands that are looking for a break. Get everything in writing.
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Yep having good audio is tremendously important. Getting it right when recording is critical, and then getting it right during post is also very important. Those of us who work with audio for a living will tell you it takes years of practice to get really good at this stuff, and you still always keep learning.
Skimp on the sound and your picture may be as good as useless in the market place.
 
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Try to look for talented composers and musicians that are at about the same level in their career that you are in yours. They will usually be willing to work with you for free or whatever you can afford to throw their way. It's also nice to help someone else out that is in about the same boat as you are, just in a different part of the ocean.

I know a few people excited to work making music for video that would probably be willing to work at whatever you can afford or would be willing to pay them. Email me at craiginzana@gmail.com if you'd be interested in contacting them.
 
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I'd have to agree with the look of the film can cost substantially more than the audio, even though the audio is just as important.

With audio, you may be able to find someone who will do your audio post for free, or at a price of a case of beer, hundred bucks etc. Usually audio editors have all the equipment they need. Composers as well can often compose for a cheap price, credit, case of beer etc. When it comes to the visuals, however, even if all the crew are workign for free you're still likely going to need to hire some lights, lenses, support gear, dollies, materials to build sets or alternatively buy set dressings for locations etc etc.
 
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jax_rox said:
With audio, you may be able to find someone who will do your audio post for free, or at a price of a case of beer, hundred bucks etc. Usually audio editors have all the equipment they need. Composers as well can often compose for a cheap price, credit, case of beer etc. .
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Yeah all you need is Garageband and a small pair of computer monitor speakers and anyone can do audio post like the pros. oh,, I know...sarcasm is in poor taste. I shall slap myself on the hand. Sorry, nothin' personal!

However, I wonder if many people round here realize how much work ( and experience) goes into doing audio post " really well"? Honestly, it takes just as many skills as getting good at camera operation, video and effects editing. Put some money aside for audio when making a film. You won't be sorry if you end up with stunning results.
Music also. How many really professional, cutting edge composers and musicians will work for peanuts? Generally only those who are starting out and learning the ropes. So even if you decide to use those people, at least try to offer them something for their services.

I know that Indie movies are generally done on apretty small budget, but if you want to be taken seriously and get exposure, all aspects need to be done properly- and that includes music, audio recording and audio post.
 
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rocksure said:
Yeah all you need is Garageband and a small pair of computer monitor speakers and anyone can do audio post like the pros. oh,, I know...sarcasm is in poor taste. I shall slap myself on the hand. Sorry, nothin' personal!

However, I wonder if many people round here realize how much work ( and experience) goes into doing audio post " really well"? Honestly, it takes just as many skills as getting good at camera operation, video and effects editing. Put some money aside for audio when making a film. You won't be sorry if you end up with stunning results.
Music also. How many really professional, cutting edge composers and musicians will work for peanuts? Generally only those who are starting out and learning the ropes. So even if you decide to use those people, at least try to offer them something for their services.

I know that Indie movies are generally done on apretty small budget, but if you want to be taken seriously and get exposure, all aspects need to be done properly- and that includes music, audio recording and audio post.
Click to expand...

I'm not saying any of that at all - In fact whilst professionally I'm a DP I started out doing audio work for commercial radio stations and started doing a little bit of post work before making the jump to the camera department. I understand what goes into it and that it can be a long process and a tough process. That said, my first short film that I did audio post on I did for free for the credit and the experience. It took me a long time but in the end it sounded great - and I already had Pro Tools and a set of decent monitors etc. I'm not saying that you should 'cheap out' on your music and audio but you're much more likely to find someone looking for that break - or as I was, in radio and looking for something 'different' who has their own gear (as I did), than you are to find a DP who owns his own RED Epic and will work for free. Sound is definitely important, but even $100k budget shorts don't spend 50% of their budget on audio, so with respect to keeping things in perspective - a lower budget production shouldn't either. I'd never suggest that someone shouldn't get something for their services, but that can always be a slab of pre-determined alcohol or a night of fun with the Producer's sister ;)
But seriously, just as there's not point having great footage if your audio is crap, there's also no point having great audio if your footage looks unusably bad. Whilst you might be able to get away with someone who hasn't been doing audio post for 20 years, you'll find it harder to get away with terrible lighting or missed focus marks etc.
 
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My whole point has been that the smaller your budget the more of your attention and budget must go towards audio - primarily because audio is the easiest thing to screw up from inattention and/or lack of knowledge.

Audiences never forgive poor audio.
 
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