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making a film for an oversaturated genre...

A

Absolution_Films

Firstly....

I love horror films especially slashers. Nightmare on Elm Street, Friday 13th, Halloween, Black Christmas.... you name it ive seen it.

I would love to make a slasher film, but the one point that always puts me off is that the sub genre is sooo over saturated.

Is it ok to try and make a formulatic film... lets face it the formula is successful!
I think there are two ways to look at it... you can either produce a slasher film for example that fits the mould perfectly and is just good!
Or you can try and break the mould ala Cabin in the Woods.

What are your thoughts on this? This chat isnt restricted to Slasher/Horror films i was just using that as an example as its close to my heart :D
 
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Absolution_Films said:
break the mould ala Cabin in the Woods.
Click to expand...

How did this film break any moulds, in your opinion? I heard a lot of people with similar sentiments before I saw it, but I didn't see anything ground-breaking about it.

lets face it the formula is successful!
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Most of the time... not so. Much of the success comes from marketing or re-selling that same tired idea, over & over. It doesn't matter how awesome your film is, if noone ever gets to hear about it.

Just imo.
 
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Absolution_Films said:
Firstly....

I love horror films especially slashers. Nightmare on Elm Street, Friday 13th, Halloween, Black Christmas.... you name it ive seen it.

I would love to make a slasher film, but the one point that always puts me off is that the sub genre is sooo over saturated.

Is it ok to try and make a formulatic film... lets face it the formula is successful!
I think there are two ways to look at it... you can either produce a slasher film for example that fits the mould perfectly and is just good!
Or you can try and break the mould ala Cabin in the Woods.

What are your thoughts on this? This chat isnt restricted to Slasher/Horror films i was just using that as an example as its close to my heart :D
Click to expand...


I've been thinking of writing a slasher too.....but i have no idea who the villian should be cause everything seems taken already.
 
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Zensteve said:
How did this film break any moulds, in your opinion? I heard a lot of people with similar sentiments before I saw it, but I didn't see anything ground-breaking about it.
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Really? I'm not a massive genre fan, but I've never seen or heard of a movie with a particularly similar concept. In terms of scares, yeah, I don't think it broke the mould per se, but talking conceptually then I'd say it did.
 
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Hi Steve,

Thanks for our input, i appreciate it! and i certainly have no definitive answer! haha

With regards to The Cabin in The Woods, I just meant it took a different angle on the Slasher Genre but kept similar elements to allow it to stand apart from the rest.

I guess my main question is why do some slasher films stand above the rest? Create Icons and become cult hits when they basically all follow the same formula?

Is it the main villian and how they are portrayed? is it the amount of gore?

It really intrigues me....

Southside... I know your pain haha
 
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Absolution_Films said:
Hi Steve,

Thanks for our input, i appreciate it! and i certainly have no definitive answer! haha

With regards to The Cabin in The Woods, I just meant it took a different angle on the Slasher Genre but kept similar elements to allow it to stand apart from the rest.

I guess my main question is why do some slasher films stand above the rest? Create Icons and become cult hits when they basically all follow the same formula?

Is it the main villian and how they are portrayed? is it the amount of gore?

It really intrigues me....

Southside... I know your pain haha
Click to expand...

It's not the gore. But now you got me thinking about this...I'm gonna have to seriously think about this now:lol:
 
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I would love to make a slasher film, but the one point that always puts me off is that the sub genre is sooo over saturated.
Click to expand...

Taking it away for a second, films in general are over saturated. I understand there are about 2000 films made per year. While that may not sound like a lot, that's 40 per week. About an average of 5 to 6 per day. It's not just the genre, it's movies in general. Take a look at the release schedule for the week:

December 19
The Guilt Trip
Monsters, Inc. (3D)
Amour
Zero Dark Thirty

December 21
Cirque Du Soleil: Worlds Away
Jack Reacher
The Impossible
Not Fade Away
On the Road

December 25
Django Unchained
Les Miserables
Parental Guidance
West of Memphis
Silver Linings Playbook

December 28
Promised Land

And that's just the movies that got theatrical distribution. As you know, most movies don't get a theatrical release of any size.

The benefit that you have is there are more ways to promote a horror movie than any other movie type. Even if you don't go for theatrical distribution, there are a lot of blog sites that probably love horror movies more than you. With the fact that the industry is so saturated, when you're in development, you really need to think about marketing. Once again when you're in Pre Production, again when you're in production and again when you're in post production. That way when you're in sales mode, you've done a lot of marketing so far, hopefully you've built up a demand/following for your movie.

I say do it. Just do it well.

Is it ok to try and make a formulatic film... lets face it the formula is successful!
Click to expand...

Horror movies don't need to be as formulatic as other genre's, but be careful straying too far off the beaten track. It's important to be different, fresh and original, but not so different that people won't recognize your work. It's a genre where shocking your audience in a fresh and original way can pay off.
 
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A DP I am collaborating with wants to direct his first feature next year. He wants it to be a slasher film and hear are both our takes of how maybe is the best way to approach it.

I think you should totally get rid of the normal formula and come up with a new type of story completely. Most slashers don't really have a lot plot, and it's one slashing after another, till a whole group is killed off. But if you give it a really smart plot like Seven or even with a lot of twists and turns, like The Dark Knight, I think you could re-invent the genre. Plus a lot of slashers aren't as serious as they should be. The gore is just there as a gimmick, but if you give it real depth, and make the darkness stand out, people will be repulsed by what they see, than rather be titilated by it. A lot of slashers are too exploitative, because they don't develop their material, and give it enough depth.

Now that's my take. The DP friend has a different view. He says the more you develop it, the more exploitative it becomes. You should show it all as a fantasy horror adventure, because then there is less exploitation and it's rather just fun. I disagree. I mean a lot of people might think that Emmanuelle is more exploitative, than Last Tango in Paris for example, and Emmanuelle is the less deep, more fun movie.

But he says to make it more fun and less serious, and he says to also stick with the formula cause it works. Why change something that works. Those are our assessments and hope they help.
 
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harmonica44 said:
...slashers don't really have a lot plot, and it's one slashing after another, till a whole group is killed off...
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Yep, that's what a "slasher movie" is. 'Seven' and 'The Dark Knight' aren't slasher films. You can't make a slasher film like those, because there is already a formula for a slashers. If you mess with that formula too much, you no longer have a slasher... you have a thriller, like "Seven", for example.

Of course, you can play with the formula, you can add things, take things out, twist it around, but at the end of the day, if you want to make a slasher you need to follow the "rules". That will mean you wont have (or need, to be precise) too much of a plot and you'll have one brutal, gory murder after another, til the whole group is killed off. However, if your story leads you away from slasher, towards thriller, go with it.

I've had a go at writing slasher screenplays. Coming up with a villain was the the best bit! The villain is what drives the story. What's their story? Why are they killing people? I decided to go as mad as possible (that's acceptable in slasher movies)... my killer is wrapped head to toe in dirty, bloody bandages. He has no skin. He was actually disposed of at birth, having been mistaken for an afterbirth. He's back now, searching for his long lost family, killing anybody that gets in his way!!!

Just go for it. As far as the genre being over-saturated... who cares?! I don't. If you make a good slasher, I'll watch it. So will numerous other people. Horror fans are pretty ravenous. Just give us something of interest!


And just as an aside, I wouldn't call 'Cabin in the Woods' a slasher either. I don't know what genre it is, it isn't really a horror movie... That's what I think made it so ground-breaking. The implication that every horror movie ever made is actually another chapter of this story was just brilliant. Excellent movie.
 
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guys, guys, please, please don't say slasher doesn't have a plot.

Alien was a slasher movie. So was Jurassic Park. There are no "rules" about slasher not having a plot.
 
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Just make sure you have a good hook too.

If you have a great movie without a hook, you'll regret it. Make a great movie WITH a hook and you may see a decent pay day at the end.

Good luck!
 
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In fact, you could have a naked antagonist with a hook!
Not a "I Know What You Did Last Summer" hook.
I mean a plain ol' fish hook stuck in his frank&beans. A trebble hook.
THAT's what makes him so ill-tempered.
And he kills anyone that insists on "helping."


Absolution -
Where on Earth are you going to show this formula slasher with a twisted hook?
I mean, after you plan it, shoot it, edit it, and pay for it WHERE are you onna show it?


http://horror.about.com/od/horrormoviesubgenres/a/slashers.htm
http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2011/04/08/the_rules_of_slasher_movie_body_counts.html
http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2011/04/08/the_rules_of_slasher_movie_body_counts.html
 
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Well if the slasher formula must be followed in order for it to count a slasher, do we have to make the progagonists kind of dumb characters? I find the victims and heroines in a slasher movie are just not smart characters and perhaps as a nice change, maybe it would be wise to make them smart as a whip?
 
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If the victims were smart, they wouldn't fall for the most stupid of situations they find themselves in. "Oh look, there's that haunted house where everyone who enters get slaughtered, lets go up there for our date."
 
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Genres in and of themselves are borne out of common characteristics, and indeed perhaps even 'formulas' within films.

To make a slasher without it being a slasher, would be to make a romantic comedy without it being a romantic comedy.

As well, whole careers are made on making good genre films - why would you assume that your film is the film that stops slasher fans going to see slasher films? You could say that the romantic comedy genre is over-saturated, or that the thriller genre is over-saturated. Perception of 'over-saturation' does not mean one cannot make a good film, and the fact that there are other films in the same genre does not mean that your film will be bad.

In my view, write and make your film - the genre in which it sits is not the biggest determiner of its success.
 
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Sweetie said:
If the victims were smart, they wouldn't fall for the most stupid of situations they find themselves in. "Oh look, there's that haunted house where everyone who enters get slaughtered, lets go up there for our date."
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Well you would have write so that it works. None of the teens want to leave their houses cause they know their is killer on the loose, killing teens. So the killer decides he has to go to the teen's houses and kill them there. Since the teens and parents watching them, are smart, he would have to cut the phone lines, and jam their cell phone signals. Couldn't something like that work?
 
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