Lucas & Spielberg on the future of film

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/steven-spielberg-predicts-implosion-film-567604

Steven Spielberg on Wednesday predicted an "implosion" in the film industry is inevitable, whereby a half dozen or so $250 million movies flop at the box office and alter the industry forever. What comes next -- or even before then -- will be price variances at movie theaters, where "you're gonna have to pay $25 for the next Iron Man, you're probably only going to have to pay $7 to see Lincoln." He also said that Lincoln came "this close" to being an HBO movie instead of a theatrical release.

I find it amusing that they're complaining about the state of the industry when they're two of the major players who are responsible for the state of the industry.
 
I do see the irony in this, but on the other hand, I do see where they are coming from. With the industry making bigger and bigger films, there is going to come a point where people lose interest. The same thing happened in the music industry in the post-thriller big budget video and marketing world.

I don't really like the sound of it, as a fan of (well made) big budget films, but at the same time, I like the idea of it making more room for smaller, more intimate independent films.

If this were to happen, there will be good and bad to it. I just hope if it does, it's after the new Star Wars.
 
I agree, but I think it's a pretty safe prediction - everything goes in cycles, and right now we're clearly on the upside of the big-budget blockbuster trend. I think we're seeing the very first signs of the peak approaching - things like the latest spiderman retread or the talks of ever-more obscure comic book characters getting films. Look at the top 10 box office for the past 5-6 years and it's mostly franchises that have either already run their natural course or are pretty close, without much visible on the horizon to replace them. Another Star Trek and Avengers maybe, and then things will turn, although I suppose Star Wars could stretch it a year or two since there seems to be a good deal of pent-up demand from fans who were unhappy with the prequels. There will still certainly be some blockbuster hits, but cut the take in half for 5 of the top ten from the past few years and it would be a disaster for the current industry model.

I found the comment about variable pricing at the box office interesting, and I think it would be great for the industry if it came about because it would create a lot of room for less expensive productions to compete with the big ones. I'm just not sure it would happen for much the same reason - it's not in the studio's interests to open themselves up to competition, and they hold most of the cards in negotiations with theaters in terms of what they'll allow.
 
Do you anticipate the cost of marketing the films to decrease as well?

That's a good point. I guess even if there were varying ticket prices to allow room for smaller films they would still need to spend big on marketing to compete?

I do sometimes wonder if the actual cost of marketing needs to be so high or if its simply hyper inflated because it's 'a movie'.
 
The film market has been roughly the same since the 20's. Studios produce a bunch of movies for revenue and awards every year, for an affordable ticket price, at roughly the same box office run. Why in the world would it change after nearly a century?
 
When single actors are getting paid $50 million dollar salaries, is marketing really the biggest expense?
 
I guess it depends - I don't think the marketing of big budget films would decrease. But I also don't think the marketing budgets of cheaper films would have to be as big to compete, because the lower ticket prices would be an incentive for some people to take a chance on two or three films they aren't as familiar with rather than buying one ticket to the blockbuster. It's the same reason unknown indies can make money on VOD but won't ever make it to theaters. Of course it could also mean people just go to fewer films on the whole because they just want to see the big films and save their money for those. It's hard to predict until someone tries it, and of course there's the bigger issue of finite individual time vs. many and growing entertainment choices.

When single actors are getting paid $50 million dollar salaries, is marketing really the biggest expense?

Who's getting a $50 million salary? Certainly some actors make that much or more on the backend if a film is successful, but I don't think anyone's getting that up front as a paycheck. Whereas $30-40 million in up-front marketing costs is pretty common for big-budget films, even if they flop. Look at "After Earth" - $135 million production budget, $100 million marketing budget, who knows how much Will Smith made but I'm guessing it was far less than the marketing budget. Even with some success in foreign sales they haven't even covered the marketing budget yet after a few weeks in release.
 
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When single actors are getting paid $50 million dollar salaries, is marketing really the biggest expense?

Well from what I've read the marketing budgets for blockbuster movies are equal, if not more then the total production costs. so if a move is made for $150 million they are spending equally as much on advertising. My point was simply is this the reality of the cost associated with global marketing or is it simply more because its a movie.

I agree that some actors wages are just mind blowing but then on the flip side, if that actors name can make you 3 times their salary at the box office is it such a bad deal?

but like I said, if the 'bubble' did burst then how would it affect wages of not just actors but across all areas. Would they still demand their $50mil? would the studio's pay it?
 
Market forces will dominate as they always do. People will pay for what they think is value and people will get paid what the market can sustain. The movie industry will adapt as it always has and life will go on. This is just Y2K, Mayan Calendar, MPAA-style fear-mongering at it's finest.
 
I don't think it's fear mongering, just a sober recognition that industries and markets change on a regular basis. The writing is on the wall... overall ticket sales have been declining for years. Box office has only managed to keep growing due to the higher ticket prices, especially because of the growth in 3D movies. But there's a limit to how long that can continue - the audience will continue dwindling while there's a limit to what most people are willing to spend on a ticket. The interest in 3D may die off - it's already begun in the television market, ESPN just announced they're dropping their 3D channel due to lack of interest, and it no longer commands a premium on television sets.

Once we hit that tipping point people will start casting about in an effort to find new ways to keep doing what they do. That doesn't mean the industry will collapse, but it'll likely go through a period of turmoil while it finds a new way forward.
 
Their prediction though is that prices will have to rise. I think this is an outdated mode of thinking. Declining ticket sales are due to two factors:

1) Home theatre systems being cheap and of high quality.

2) Piracy.

The only reason to go to the cinema anymore for the majority of the public is for the "experience". And what do you get for that money? Lots of noisy, sweaty, people crowded into uncomfortable seating and viewing a tiny screen. Cinema's (here at least) charge extra for their premium theatres with larger screens and better sound and better seating. But you still get the noisy, sweaty people.

When you're paying up to $22 a ticket, or even up to $36 for a premium cinema, where's the value? Why not stay at home and watch it with friends and family for a fraction of the cost?

What cinemas need to do is provide a better experience that is worth the price of admission. Charging more for the same will just drive more people away from the cinemas, not entice them in. And with the advent of 4k and even 8k TV screens, it won't be long before the cinema experience will provide even less reason to spend that money.
 
Cinema needs to re-focus on the 'experience'. Where are the good ol' days of William Castle gimmicks?

The one reason people go to the cinema is for the experience (unless you're talking about parents taking kids on the holidays for something to do!), and the experience has rapidly declined whilst tickets prices have rapidly climbed.
 
I find it amusing that they're complaining about the state of the industry when they're two of the major players who are responsible for the state of the industry.

I hear what you're saying, but I disagree with your conclusion. Spielberg has rarely been involved with a lot of the huge tentpole movies. Yes his budgets are large, but they're not the $250mil budgets that he's talking about.

Spielberg Budgets:
Lincoln: 65mil
War Horse 66mil
Adventures of Tintin: 130mil
Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull: 185mil (yeah ok, this one was big)
Munich: 70mil

Lucas Budgets:
Starwars 1-3: 110 to 115mil each
Red Tails: 58mil

I've seen a large trend towards tentpole movies, and their success is also hard to deny.

On another forum, I saw a link to the Disney Katzenberg memo from 1991:

http://gointothestory.blcklst.com/2012/01/the-katzenberg-memo-part-1.html

It's an interesting read if you want to dig deeper and just work out if you think there is a cyclical nature to the film industry.

I've mentioned Soderbergh's speech, "State of Cinema" was also very interesting and rather up to date. He provides a two sided talk about how the industry is moving towards tentpole movies and why the studios aren't that interested in the smaller 20mil projects anymore.

If this were to happen I wonder how it would affect the pay scale across the board?

I guess the market would have to react. It's already happening with vfx companies. Less and less are able to keep all their business in LA and have to open offices in other countries/regions, especially in areas that have incentives (tax and so on) to remain competitive. The market will simply adjust to what it needs to remain competitive.

Do you anticipate the cost of marketing the films to decrease as well?

Yes and no. It's getting to the point where, as I understand it, it's costing $60mil minimum to market a movie. So long as they keep turning a long term profit, I don't see the trend stopping anytime soon.

Where I see a yes to the answer will be those who don't have access to lots of funds but still want to achieve the same result through putting in the man hours. The downside to this argument is: If it's possible, why haven't we seen it repetitively done already? There have been a few examples of grass root promotions working, but from my memory, most of that was in conjunction with an advertising budget that turned them into semi-blockbusters (like Blair Witch Project).

I guess even if there were varying ticket prices to allow room for smaller films they would still need to spend big on marketing to compete?

I personally really like this idea. The problem: Studios have no incentive to allow it to happen. It can be a boon for the cinemas though as they make a lot of their profits from the concession stands, though a lot of their expenses are covered by their cut of the ticket prices. I think a variable ticketing system would allow independent cinema become competitive. I personally don't like to risk the current large ticket price on a movie that I likely won't like, but I'm willing to pay less to take a punt on something that looks interesting. For me, any excuse to buy popcorn and that frozen drink!

When single actors are getting paid $50 million dollar salaries, is marketing really the biggest expense?
I'm curious, who's getting paid $50mil per movie these days?

I agree that some actors wages are just mind blowing but then on the flip side, if that actors name can make you 3 times their salary at the box office is it such a bad deal?

I believe the answer is: Yes it is.
 
I mentioned this in another thread here not too long ago - but the reality is that a sliding scale of movies means those with, say, lower budgets will get lower ticket prices.. But then, those with higher ticket prices will just end up pirated - so there's no incentive. At the same time, Actors, Producers and key players are not looking to down-size their pay-packet. If budgets shrink because of a lower ticket price, the people will lose out are those below-the-line crew who are already getting paid significantly less then their HOD, or not getting jobs at all..

In terms of the 'irony' of Spielberg criticising the studio system - the reality is that whilst he and his movies may be ingrained to the system, he himself is a Director, not a studio head - so he's not criticising himself at all as you seem to suggest.
 
I'm curious, who's getting paid $50mil per movie these days?

The most recent was Robert Downey Jr. who made $50 million off of Iron Man 3 and $50 million off of The Avengers before that. Most of that is from profit sharing but the average salary of the top tier actors is still around $20-30 million. That's a lot of money for a brand and takes a huge chunk out of a movie's profits.
 
The film market has been roughly the same since the 20's. Studios produce a bunch of movies for revenue and awards every year, for an affordable ticket price, at roughly the same box office run. Why in the world would it change after nearly a century?

...and of course there's the bigger issue of finite individual time vs. many and growing entertainment choices.

I suspect that those are the two main things at work. And, yeah, like somebody said, hey, these two guys are, like, nearly the two guys responsible for the blockbuster model. And now they're wisely disparaging it? Seems kind of sideways to me. Seems kind of like a sideways way for them to admit that the premium cable and internet providers are doing it, in some ways, better these days. But they don't want to quite admit it flat out, either.

And does the evidence really support their dire prediction? Maybe. But I doubt that it will be because there's going to be a watershed season in which half a dozen tent poles die at the box office and explode the current model. More likely, I'll bet, it will be far less dramatic; they'll simply not be able to compete with the "many and growing entertainment choices" which require far less overhead to produce and far less risk, while at the same time garnering lots of viewership and enthusiasm.

Anyway. I remember when way back in the olden days, 1995, when it was such a scandal that Waterworld's budget was reputed to be 100 million. I'm sure that's what it was supposed to be back then, and remember how ape-**** people, or at least the media went over that. Now I see that IMDb puts it at 175 million. And I think it was not long after that that people were saying that spectaculars would just not be able to be made anymore because of those rising costs. And yet, here we are, more than a decade and half later, and look at the amazing budgets and the amazing spectaculars still being made.

Look at "After Earth" - $135 million production budget, $100 million marketing budget, who knows how much Will Smith made but I'm guessing it was far less than the marketing budget. Even with some success in foreign sales they haven't even covered the marketing budget yet after a few weeks in release.

Seems like it could support what Lu-Berg are (is?) predicting. On the other hand, being a little more cynical, I might suggest that any of us could have given them a measured assessment of their pitch and not given it the green light --and saved them the money and the trouble. You want to spend 135 million (before the marketing costs, as you pointed out IDOM) on a vehicle for your son? Okay, that's nice. You want to go with that story? Hmmmmm. Hey, Will, why don't we find a better vehicle, huh? Does it prove Lu-Berg right? Or is it just one more example of not the best decision making on one project, which happens...like s*** happens.

Anyway, I'm guessing that going to movies at the cinema is doomed. I know there are a lot of vested interests in it now. But since when did that stop the pain of such change?

I think this is the clearest window into what's happening...now.

"...many and growing entertainment choices."

The other day I saw this thing at a local store.

LG 84" 4K TV

You could buy a cheaper car or put a down payment on a condo with that much money, etc. But of course the prices will come down, as they "always" do with such electronics. I don't have any proof, of course, but it just seems to me that Hollywood and other content deliverers will abandon the practice of bothering to release in theaters and will move to more direct delivery systems...particularly as broadband access becomes more ubiquitous.

Maybe it will take a while yet. But I'll also bet that it will be sooner than we might expect. Seems to me that that's the more apparent trend happening as we speak...er.
 
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I don't have any proof, of course, but it just seems to me that Hollywood and other content deliverers will abandon the practice of bothering to release in theaters and will move to more direct delivery systems...particularly as broadband access becomes more ubiquitous.

Maybe it will take a while yet. But I'll also bet that it will be sooner than we might expect. Seems to me that that's the more apparent trend happening as we speak...er.

You may be right in the long term, however the money that a movie makes on home video has a reasonable correlation with the performance at the box office. Some of the reason comes down to market, others I suspect comes down to general public perception. The general public typically sees more value in spending $x on a video that was successful than $x less a small discount on another movie they've never heard of.

I think we're stuck with the cinema distribution system for a long time.

Part of this reason comes down to pre-sales and selling prices in international markets and the sales windows beyond the first window. The cinema box office ticket sales often dictate the sell price in those other windows.

For the smaller, more independent movies, I'll agree with you. Direct to home entertainment/vod or having a smaller cinema distribution has it's benefits of being able to lower distribution costs, allowing lower production costs and letting film makers experiment more with more interesting and edgy story lines.
 
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