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lighting

so im shooting a short film in two weeks and have a question about lighting a fork in the road where 2 characters are gonna be at the entrances as there is alot of dialogue there and its needs to be lit to see the ppl but at the same time dimly lit any ideas???
 
Why does it need to be dimly lit?

There are more questions you need to ask also. What time of day is it? What mood are you trying to set? What is your budget like? How wide are the shots going to be. All of this is going to effect how we can help you light this scene.
 
well doesnt need to be too dimly lit just enough so that u can barely see the figures standing at the entrances at the fork in the road as the main character will be standing in front of them talking to someone and the shot is gon be a series of wide and close up shots as the characters are talking and the mood needs to be ominous or like a thriller as this shot at night and my budget is next to nothing as i have currently lost my job
 
i have none i was thinking bout going to best buy and buying some lights with stands and using them but know nuthing of filters and i accidentally left my filmmaking book in ohio when i left
 
Here is what I would try to do not really knowing the location or your budget.

I would try to find a fork in the road with a street light hopefully in the light is between the fork but one on the left or the right would work. Then put your two actors by the fork in front of the light and your thrid character facing the light. These would be your wider shots. Now go to Menards or Home Depot and buy your self a 500 watt work light. Now for your tighter shots back light your two actors with the work light giving them just a rim or edge. Then use the same light for your main character's Key light.

You might even be able to fake a street light if you can get that work light high enough. Like 15 feet in the air high.

There is way more to it but not seeing your location or anything else. This may be your best bet. You can even run the light off a cheap generator.

Good luck.
 
thank you ill check that latter this week as im headin to the locarion on wed to check it out more and take some pics of the characters there s o i can get a better idea of whhat i need ill keep u posted homie
 
Stick a main key light on both of your actors and the center of the fork. Then depending on the angle of the shot, stick a rim light behind them. You'll need to move your key light around when you do reverses. Actually, you'll probably either switch lights (if they are different) or use your rim light as your key, and your key as your rim when you reverse.

Also, put two lights off camera down each road, lighting the background of each in some way. Spraying the BG in some way. You can use color if you want, but not necessary.

You'll have to move your lights around depending on what angles you want, but be very aware of matching the light when you move.

Also...think about power. Where are you going to get it from? If you need to use a genie, that's a whole other beast.

Good luck.
 
Funny M1chae1, I thought that is what I said.

Anyway, AvsB, I did want to stress that there is far more to it then just what I wrote. But from the sounds of it, it sounds like you have a very small budget and not a lot of experience so I would use that as a jumping off point. If you want to post pictures of the location I can tell you exactly how I would light it and with what.
 
Funny M1chae1, I thought that is what I said.

Anyway, AvsB, I did want to stress that there is far more to it then just what I wrote. But from the sounds of it, it sounds like you have a very small budget and not a lot of experience so I would use that as a jumping off point. If you want to post pictures of the location I can tell you exactly how I would light it and with what.

For the characters, yes, similar...but you failed to mention how to light the BG and extending fork roads. :) Which is what I think the OP sounded like he wanted to know also.

Here is a quick sketch (done horribly on a stationary roller-ball mouse) that illustrates a possible lighting setup. If it's too bright, you can iris down or tweak the lighting. This is an example for a two shot. On CU you'll want to face the key more at the person you're shooting. And you'll want to shift the BG fill so the BG pops...

Of course...my example is more of a night (dusk) shoot example...if it's the daytime, you may be able to ignore this entirely. lol.

NOT TO SCALE
 
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Yeah I know I didn't mention how to light the background because I wouldn't necessarily light it. I wouldn't start him out by lighting any kind of background for a couple reasons.

1. If he has no equipment I doubt that he is going to be able to get his hands on anything that can throw light far enough to light a background.

2. Lighting a background take more control and experience to make it lit but not a focal point. If you light it to hot or to harsh or not harsh enough then it just looks like a random light was set up.

3. Lighting only the fork and the two actors and then letting the background fall off into darkness is far more interesting of a shot then lighting as much as you can because rules say you have to. The scene to mean sounds like having these two mystery people talking about which road to take is the focal point of the scene, making the dark background a good place to let the audience imagination run wild a little bit. (Of course this third reason is just my opinion)

Nice sketch you did. However you never want to have the background fill on either side of the camera pointing the same direction of the camera. All that is going to do is make the shot very flat and uninteresting. You can have both lights on one side of the other but again in order to make the wide shots work your lights are going to have to throw a considerable distance, which I am not sure he can afford. Also the key light is way to close to the camera it needs to be further left in so it doesn't look again flat. Which if you moved it left then both your background lights would need to be on the far left as well. Rim light looks fine maybe a tad more left. Now if it is night then you are going to have to gel your background slightly blue. Maybe so it reads at 4200 or so. giving it a nice moon light and you are going to have you get your lights quite higher.

Now M1chea1 do you see how complicated this is getting. Where if he would just use the one light and work with that he can use it more to his advantage and get more interesting shots. Maybe I would use a car's (If it is in the scene) headlights as another rim light but that is another trick altogether.

Just my feelings on the situation. Good luck.
 
My sketch is just a general idea of placement, please do not take distance to the camera or actor into consideration. Nor take the placement of my BG fill lights too strictly. My sketch is a general starting point, naturally there is going to be a lot of tweaking and fine tuning once the lights are in place.

I completely disagree with you. It's not more interesting to see the roads spill off immediately into night (unless of course that's an experienced choice). That's more boring to me. Instead, having a few lights placed a little down each road hitting key elements (tree, building, sign, etc) just enough to pop it out of the BG...it's not going to look flat at all. What's going to look flat is your actors lit, and darkness in the BG. The fills aren't going to be next to the camera...sorry about the scale of the picture...I would place the fills down each road a bit (maybe 20-30 yrds).

Getting two extra lights (simple clamp on or work light) isn't expensive at all...they are super cheap. I'm not talking about getting an Arri pepper here...

And Brooksy, I don't think it's complicated at all--it's 3 or 4 lights, that's it. You don't need two BG fills, you can just make the two shot favoring one side more, and use only one...I was just illustrating a two shot that showed both 'options' in the fork, and illuminating both roads at key locations down about 30 yrds or so...

Giving your key a slight blue gel will work nicely to simulate moon light...but it's not necessary.

Of course, I'm not a lighting designer, nor did I go to school for it...I'm mostly an actor. But I've helped on the lighting on several films that have seen distribution.
 
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M1chae1-

I understand where you are going with what you are trying to do and I appreciate it and I'm sure AvsB does as well. Unfortunately you are simplifying the process far to much. It's not a question of how many lights it is, it is complicated because you have to know how to control the lights and lighting in general. To get the background to "pop" out more on any kind of a wide two shot, you are going to have to get bigger lights. Much bigger. The drop off of a clamp or work light is only going to be about 10 to 15 feet making it very difficult to keep the lights out of the shot and get the desired background effect. What keeps a shot from looking flat is helping to have contrast: giving an actor an edge, moving the key to a side not in front of the person, and yes lighting the background if you can do it. From what I have heard AvsB it is not going to be possible to light the background. There may be information I haven't heard but this is my assessment from what I have heard.

Now this is just the way I would light it. It is a personal preference and AvsB can light the scene anyway he wants. But my opinion is coming from experience. This is what I do for a living. This is how I pay my bills. I have been on numerous shoots that are nationally distributed as well. I have been learning lighting from gaffers with 25+ years experience. But again just my opinion on this situation.

I won't post again because I don't want to get into an argument. I enjoy this site for what it is for and I hope AvsB has gotten some good information from both of us. Good luck and let us know how it works out.
 
I have no desire to argue with you Brooksy. I wasn't trying come come across abrasive or challenging...I was simply clarifying my sketch and where I was coming from. I'm hoping to learn from these boards as well...

I'm sure you have more experience than me...I don't doubt that.

You say a clamp or worklight won't do for the BG? Well, I disagree. I'm not talking about spraying the entire background...I'm talking about adding a little layering, that's all. You don't need an HMI for that. Even making a simple sign pop in the BG would do wonders for depth.

One thing, you mentioned rimming an actor to keep things from looking flat...isn't that so the actor doesn't 'blend' with the background? Or is it also a technique used to create depth as well?

I'm sure my schematic could be a million times better in terms of distance and angles...but it was such a rough, I'm sorry. I would absolutely love to see what an experienced designer would do for a setup here--I'm learning myself also.

Thanks.
 
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i thank the both of yall for ur input as this is my first production im overwhelmed by the response and an grateful and everybody else too i really am awed by a community of filmmakers that striver to help each other instead of hinder ill keep u updated on the progress
 
Night Lighting: Part 1

so im shooting a short film in two weeks and have a question about lighting a fork in the road where 2 characters are gonna be at the entrances as there is alot of dialogue there and its needs to be lit to see the ppl but at the same time dimly lit any ideas???

To get the background to "pop" out more on any kind of a wide two shot, you are going to have to get bigger lights. Much bigger. The drop off of a clamp or work light is only going to be about 10 to 15 feet making it very difficult to keep the lights out of the shot and get the desired background effect. What keeps a shot from looking flat is helping to have contrast: giving an actor an edge, moving the key to a side not in front of the person, and yes lighting the background if you can do it.

Given the light sensitivity of cameras these days a little light can go a long way. So you don’t need terribly large instruments, you just need the right instruments, a way to power them, and know how to use them. If, as Broosky suggests, you always strive to create contrast, it is possible (as you can see by the production still below) to light large night exteriors with nothing more than what can be powered by a modified Honda 6500 Watt generator.

HD_PP_DemoWS.jpg

Wide Shot of Night exterior scene lit with a pkg. consisting of PFC 2.5 & 1.2 HMI Pars, PFC 800w Joker HMI, Kino Flo Flat Head 80, 2 ParaBeam 400s, and a ParaBeam 200 powered by a modified Honda EU6500is.

From the description of your production, it sounds like that you definitely need a portable generator to power lights. Given the wide variety of portable generators and motion picture lights available, in order to maximize the number of lights you can run on the generator it is important to use the right kind of generator and the right kind of lights. Especially, given that the increasing use of personal computers and microprocessor-controlled recording equipment in HD production has created an unprecedented demand for clean, reliable power on set at a time when the trend in lighting is toward light sources that can generate harmonic noise and dirty power. If one uses the right equipment, it is possible to create clean stable set power that is capable of reliably operating larger lights (HMIs up to 6kw or Quartz lights up to 5kw), or more smaller lights (7500 Watts total), off of portable gas generators.

HD_PP_Demo_Transformer-Distro.jpg

PFC 2.5 & 1.2 HMI Pars, PFC 800w Joker HMI, Kino Flo Flat Head 80, 2 ParaBeam 400s, and a ParaBeam 200 powered by a modified Honda EU6500is through a 60A Full Power Transformer/Distro

In the interest of full disclosure, I should say at the outset that in addition to being a gaffer, I also own and operate a rental house that rents and sells a lot of the equipment I will recommend in this post. If it sounds like I’m hyping certain product lines it is not because we rent and sell them exclusively. We are dealers and rental agents for all the major brands. The equipment I am about to recommend, I recommend as a professional Gaffer of a lot of historical documentaries for PBS’ American Experience and The History Channel (see my “credit-entials” on Imbd). I recommend this equipment because I think it offers greater production capability for the dollar than anything else out there at this time.

My recommendations are also based upon extensive research I have done on the use of portable gas generators in motion picture production. For this research, I ran a series of tests in order to analyze the interaction of conventional AVR generators (a Honda EX5500 with Crystal Governor), as well as inverter generators (a Honda EU6500is), with the prevalent light sources available today.

My tests came up with some rather startling results. They show that when your lighting package consists predominantly of non-linear light sources, like HMI and Fluorescent lights, it is essential to have Power Factor Correction circuitry in the ballasts and to operate them on an inverter generator. The combination of improved power factor and the nearly pure power waveform of the inverter generator creates clean stable set power that is capable of reliably operating larger, or more smaller lights, off of portable gas generators than has ever been possible before. I have compiled the results of my tests and it is available online at: http://www.screenlightandgrip.com/html/emailnewsletter_generators.html

Based upon my tests, I have come up with a package of lights that maximize the light output that can be had from a portable generator. The lights that make up this package capitalize upon the following technological advances in lighting and production technology by Mole Richardson, K5600, Power to Light, and Kino Flo:

1) More efficient and compact HMI, Quartz, and now Fluorescent Par Lights.
2) Brighter and more efficient "short arc" HMI bulb designs.
3) 120/240V Electronic small HMI and Kino ballasts with Power Factor Correction.

In order to maximize the number of these lights that can be run on a portable generator I have combined these lights with proprietary distribution technology I developed during my tests that enhances the production capability of the new Honda Inverter Generators. Since, I’m almost out of space here, I will give my recommendations for lights that will give you the maximum production value from portable gas generators in successive posts to come. I will also detail my reasons for my choices and use as an example an independent short (picture above) I lit that was shot on the Red camera. While the situation is not exactly the same the lighting principles are the same and demonstrate what you can do with nothing more than what can be powered on a modified Honda EU6500is generator.

Guy Holt, Gaffer, ScreenLight & Grip, Boston
 
Night Lighting: Part 2

so im shooting a short film in two weeks and have a question about lighting a fork in the road where 2 characters are gonna be at the entrances as there is alot of dialogue there and its needs to be lit to see the ppl but at the same time dimly lit any ideas???

Continued from above.

For Key sources to light your medium/close up, I don’t recommend incandescent lights because they are the least efficient of all the available light sources. Since eighty percent of the energy consumed by an incandescent light goes into the generation of heat, they generate less lumens per watt of any other light source and so are not the most efficient source to use on a portable generaotr. Add to that, the fact that the Full CTB gel required to create a moonlight effect from incandescent lights has a transmission factor around .3 (it takes a 1000 Watt incandescent source to generate 300 Watts of moonlight) make them the most impractical light source from an efficiency standpoint to create a moonlight effect. For this reason, I suggest you use the new Kino Flo Parabeam fluorescent par light where you would traditionally use an incandescent light as a Key source.

The Kino Flo Parabeam 400 fixture is similar to a 2,000 Watt incandescent softlight in both quality and intensity. But unlike a 2k softlight, they can operate both 5500K (daylight) & 3200K (quartz) lamps and use 1/10th the power of comparable incandescent soft lights. These features make the Kino Flo Parabeam fixtures, like all fluorescent lights, a more efficient light source to operate off of portable generators. I recommend the Kino Flo Parabeam fixtures, over other fluorescent lights, to replace incandescent soft lights because they are more suitable to serve as a key or backlight source than any other conventional fluorescent movie light fixture.

HD_PP_DemoCU.jpg

Two Shot Night exterior reverse cross keyed with Parabeam 400s

What distinguishes the Parabeam fixtures from other fluorescent lights is their throw, power efficiency, and the innovative accessories Kino Flo makes available for the fixtures. Accessories include barndoors, a gel frame, a diffusion panel, and Honeycomb Louvers. These features enhance the production capabilities of the Parabeam fixtures and make them suitable to serve as a key or backlight source where conventional fluorescent movie light fixtures are not.

Conventional fluorescent movie lights (Kino Flo’s included) have a very broad soft light output that is hard to control. The light also tends to drop off rapidly which means that to serve as key source, the units need to be positioned close to the subject they are lighting. These characteristics make them best suited to serve as key sources in documentary interview set ups where the keys are typically positioned close to the interview subject. In that capacity they generate a wonderful soft light that wraps around the interview subject without wilting them. But, given these characteristics, conventional fluorescent movie lights have only limited applications as fill sources in dramatic set lighting – that is until the development by Kino Flo of their ParaBeam fixtures.

HD_PP_Demo_SetUp_Night.jpg

PFC 2.5 & 1.2 HMI Pars, PFC 800w Joker HMI, Kino Flo Flat Head 80, 2 ParaBeam 400s, and a ParaBeam 200 powered by a modified Honda EU6500is through a 60A Full Power Transformer/Distro

The ParaBeam fixtures have computer aided designed (CAD) parabolic reflectors that focus the light output where it is needed most for lighting dramatic scenes - at a medium distance – making it an ideal key source for HD Digital Cinema. If you compare the photometric tables of the Parabeam 400 and the Diva 400 (which uses the same four lamps), you will notice that at 16’ the Parabeam 400 puts out almost three times the light level (28FC) than the Diva 400 (10FC) even though they both use the same tubes. In fact a Parabeam 400 generates as much light at 16’ as the 4’ 8-Tube Kino Flathead 80 fixture, yet uses less than a quarter of the power (2 Amps verses 9.2 Amps.) While the seven amp difference is not a major consideration when using house power, it can make a difference when your power is limited (coming from a portable generator) because you can use four Parabeam 400s for the same power as a 4’ – 8 Bank Kino Flathead 80. Kino Flo Parabeam ballasts are one of the few Kino ballasts to include filters to reduce the return of harmonic currents into the power stream and improve their power factor. The Parabeam fixtures have power factor ratings of over .9 making them an especially suitable fluorescent light for use on small portable generators.

HD_PP_Demo_Transformer-Distro.jpg

A Distro System consisting of a 60A Full Power Transformer/Distro, 2-60A GPC (Bates) Splitters, 2-60A Woodhead Box distributes power from a modified Honda EU6500is. Even though the generator is 100' away to reduce noise, plug-in points remain conveniently close to set.

Not only are the Parabeam fixtures more efficient, but they are also easily controlled – an essential requirement in a Key source. Parabeam fixtures are controlled by interchanging Kino Flos’ innovative Honeycomb Louvers. Louvers are available in 90, 60 and 45 degrees. Swapping louvers provides beam control similar to that of swapping lenses on an HMI Par. These features enhance the production capabilities of the Parabeam fixtures and make them suitable to serve as a key or backlight source where conventional fluorescent movie light fixtures will spill all over the set. These features make the Parabeam fixtures the best candidate of all fluorescent lights to replace incandescent soft lights in their roll as dramatic key sources. And, the power you save by not using tungsten instruments for keys and backlights, enables you to power more lights on the generator than you could otherwise.

Kino Flo Parabeam fixtures are also a cost effective alternative to HMIs for the creation of moonlight because they can use 5500K tubes. And, they are even more efficient sources than HMIs. Compared to LED Fixtures, Kino Flo Parabeam fixtures offer greater versatility. Able to interchange different color temperature tubes, and vary beam spread with their interchangeable honeycomb louvers, the Parabeam fixture can do what it takes four different Lite Panel LED fixtures to accomplish – Spot and Flood in both 5500K and 3200K. Offering great light quality, output, beam control, and versatility, I think the Kino Flo ParaBeams makes an ideal key or back light source for indie productions.

Guy Holt, Gaffer, ScreenLight & Grip, Boston
 
Night Lighting: Part 3

so im shooting a short film in two weeks and have a question about lighting a fork in the road where 2 characters are gonna be at the entrances as there is alot of dialogue there and its needs to be lit to see the ppl but at the same time dimly lit any ideas???

Continued from above.

To “pop” the background as Brooksy suggests, you will need some HMIs to light the deep background and edge your actors with moonlight. I am recommending that you create moonlight for the deep background with HMIs, rather than a tungsten or fluorescent, because HMIs will cover a lot more area given their high output (lumens/watt). To light deep background on night exterior sets, I would recommend that you rent one of the dual wattage (2.5/4kw) HMI Pars. Not only will the Par configuration give you more output but it will also be more versatile. When you need a lot of light for fill on day exteriors you can lamp it with a 4k globe. When you don’t need the punch of a 4k Par, like on this night exterior, you can swap the 4kw globe for a 2.5kw globe giving you more power to run additional lights on your portable generator. The 15 Amps you save by burning the smaller 2500W globe will power quite a few more lights when you consider that a Kino Flo Parabeam 400 uses only 2 Amps. For example, it is possible to power a lighting package that consists of PFC 1200, & 800 HMI Pars, a couple of Kino Flo ParaBeam 400s, a couple of ParaBeam 200s, and a Flat Head 80, in addition to a PFC 2.5kw HMI Par off of our modified Honda EU6500is Generator. Given the light sensitivity of the HD cameras, this is just about all the light you need to light both the deep background and action area of your night exterior. The new Mole Richardson 2.5/4kw HMI Day-Lite Par is an especially compact 2.5/4k Par.

For versatility and high output in a small HMI fixture I would suggest the 800W Joker Bug Light. Its’ par configuration offers punchy directional lighting. Its bug configuration is ideal for soft banks and lantern lights. It can take a soft-tube for linear soft lighting. And, now an innovative Bugabeam Adaptor enables the 800W Joker Bug to be plugged into the back of a Source 4 Leko to create a controllable high intensity daylight balanced beam projector.

HD_PP_DemoWS.jpg

The window pattern on the lower right was created wih a Joker 800 plugged into the back of a Source 4 Leko with a window pattern.

The window pattern in the photo above is a good example of how a Joker 800 plugged into an ETC Source-4 Leko can offer independent filmmakers production values beyond their limited budgets. Another example is the effect of sunlight streaming through windows. In the past, to create the effect of sunlight streaming through windows has required a fairly significant lighting budget because it required large HMI Fresnels outside windows, powered by large diesel generators. A 800 plugged into an ETC Source-4 Leko can create a very similar effect. Used as a powerful daylight Gobo Projector from a corner of a room, a Joker 800 plugged into an ETC Source-4 Leko can throw a window pattern onto the set creating the effect of sunlight streaming through the windows.

The lamp used in the Joker 800 offers many advantages in this particular application, its "short" arc gap is punctual enough to be very well suited to the optical design of the ETC Source-4 Leko as a gobo projector. The 4 to 1 efficiency ratio of HMI versus Tungsten incandescent creates a gain in light output of two full stops. This huge increase in light level allows patterns to be visible even under the higher ambient light levels of day light scenes. Where it offers independent filmmakers big budget feature style production values on shoe string budgets, the Joker 800 is a must for any low budget location lighting package.

The 800W Joker Bug’s lantern adapter is another accessory that I think you will find especially useful for your night exterior. A Joker Bug Lantern armed out behind talent in a two shot with a 20’ boom arm will create the Reverse Key Lighting that is typically desired for night exteriors. In this approach, the one light does the job of two Keys and allows for rapid resetting for cross cutting singles because there are not light stands in the background of each single. With this kind of versatility, the 800W Joker Bug is an HMI light to have since your budget will allow you to have just a few.

To round out a HMI pkg. that you can run on a portable gas generator, I would suggest the Mole 1.2kw HMI Day-Lite Par. With a Power-2-Light Power Factor Corrected (PFC) 1200W electronic ballast, the Mole Day-Lite 1.2 HMI Par will draw only 11 Amps (verses the 19 Amps required by standard electronic ballasts.) The lower draw of the Power-2-Light PFC 1200W electronic ballast will be helpful on interior locations because it will enable you to power it off both 20A, as well as the more common 15A, wall circuit. Where you quite often don’t know the rating of the wall circuit that you are plugging into, the lower draw of the Power-2-Light PFC 1200W electronic ballast will ensure that it will work where a standard electronic ballast will not.

While a definite advantage when plugging into interior locations, the added efficiency of a PFC 1200 ballast will make a huge difference when powering a lighting package off of a portable generator. Again, when you consider that a Kino Flo Parabeam 400 draws only 2 amps, the 8 Amp difference between using a PFC 1200W electronic ballast and standard non-PFC 1200W electronic ballast, can mean the difference between running four additional Parabeam 400s on a portable generator or not – I think you would have to agree that is a major boost in production capability. More on the benefits of using Power Factor Corrected Small HMI & Kino Ballasts on portable generators in my next post.

Guy Holt, Gaffer, ScreenLight & Grip, Boston
 
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