lighting Lighting in these shots?

[Youssef]

Hello everyone,

In the first two shorts in my life, I just grabbed a camera and starting shooting. (had a script, camera angles, actors prepared somewhat) but had no idea how to go about managing lighting. I have a few general questions below, you may of course choose to answer just a few of them. And then, I have some shots from NCIS: LA that I'd like to ask if you can determine what kind of equipment was used to light them and how.

1) How do I define the "line" separating what needs to be fixed by lighting or by color correction / another trick in post. Meaning, I started shooting, and the image just doesn't like I want it to. How do I know whether this will be a job for lighting equipment from here or there, or a color correction trick in post...etc?

2) Can you refer me to very basic tutorials about lighting? I keep hearing terms and names of different equipment and feel pretty ignorant. lol.

3) I'm on a very tight budget specially for lighting and was wondering if there is any equipment, any basic stuff we should always have on board. Meaning, not specific lights for this shot or that shot but lighting equipment that will always be needed and are a must to have, regardless of the budget.

On to the NCIS:LA screengrabs:


Image (A) The one below is supposed to be shot when the two characters were burried underground. The "supposedly" only right source is that match lighted there. But it definitely isn't the only source, right? A lot of questions pop in my mind here. I'm telling the viewer, via the shot, that the match is the only light source. How can I light up the scene otherwise and still convince them that this light is only coming from that match?

Image (B) The one below is an outdoor shot that looks like it was shot maybe in mid day or noon. I guess they're sticking to shooting in the shadowy places to avoid overexposure, that's the term, right? lol

Image C This one has a similar question too to it. Are the lights we see indeed the only light sources? If not, is it possible to determine what's used and how it was used?

Image D The one below is indoors and again holds the same question as above. But additionally, what if they found that the light coming from that window is too much?

(Image E & F)The last and final one is outdoors, no shadows, direct noon sunlight though the shot is still very cool:
(two screen grabs, same shot just one long and one close up). How do they avoid "overexposure" in these situations?

http://s4.postimage.org/inm0lhbwb/image.png (forum would not let me post 6 images)

Input is hugely appreciated!

 

[wheatgrinder]

Im not seeing any images, cept one inside the link..

 

[knightly]

1) How do I define the "line" separating what needs to be fixed by lighting or by color correction / another trick in post. Meaning, I started shooting, and the image just doesn't like I want it to. How do I know whether this will be a job for lighting equipment from here or there, or a color correction trick in post...etc?

The goal of lighting is to provide exposure and a basic "look" from which to work. Your primary light (key) should be the one that is used to set the exposure, then the rest of the lights set the tone/mood.

2) Can you refer me to very basic tutorials about lighting? I keep hearing terms and names of different equipment and feel pretty ignorant. lol.

http://www.indietalk.com/showthread.php?t=9597

3) I'm on a very tight budget specially for lighting and was wondering if there is any equipment, any basic stuff we should always have on board. Meaning, not specific lights for this shot or that shot but lighting equipment that will always be needed and are a must to have, regardless of the budget.

Power
-extension cords
-splitters
-line tester
-3 to 2 plug converters (for dealing with grounded equipment and old wiring in locations)
-Bulb Socket to outlet converters
Light
-clamp lights
-stands
-build the kit and work your way up
Light Control
-flags (large black cards for stopping light)
-reflectors (large white/silver/gold cards for redirecting light)

Image (A) The one below is supposed to be shot when the two characters were burried underground. The "supposedly" only right source is that match lighted there. But it definitely isn't the only source, right? A lot of questions pop in my mind here. I'm telling the viewer, via the shot, that the match is the only light source. How can I light up the scene otherwise and still convince them that this light is only coming from that match?
image

warm up the light with some orange gels to imply a dimmer/warmer light rather than the bluish cast the current light has - other than that, it seems good to me... perhaps a little flicker to it with a dimmer.

Image (B) The one below is an outdoor shot that looks like it was shot maybe in mid day or noon. I guess they're sticking to shooting in the shadowy places to avoid overexposure, that's the term, right? lol
image

Sunlight with a LARGE bounce to fill in the actors and bring them up within the acceptable levels forced upon the shooter by the background exposure... it may be being supplemented by a couple of 5K lights as well. Note the actors are staged in the shade as well... this allows the DP to bring the light up to the background and define the contrast within the image rather than being a slave to the ambient lighting.

Image C This one has a similar question too to it. Are the lights we see indeed the only light sources? If not, is it possible to determine what's used and how it was used?
image

This shot is at night and the lights in the pool are being used to light the trees in the background to give the background some definition, these are probably being supplemented by a light off frame right (which you can see illuminating the top right of the lamp post). A couple of can lights in the bushes provide more orange streaks balancing the image with is quite heavy frame right while the left would otherwise be very blue.

The foreground light is motivated by the standing lamp frame right... but if you notice her face, it's lit from much farther away from the camera than that "practical" light would provide. So there's probably a light off frame right providing exposure for the subject's camera right side.

The left foreground is dark and movement will make it take shape more than the still image does.

Image D The one below is indoors and again holds the same question as above. But additionally, what if they found that the light coming from that window is too much?
image

The hairlight/rimlight (back frame right of the subjects) separates them from the background and seems to be from the sunlight (although many interior sets are faked to have more control over outside light - so that would be a large light upper right that is brighter than the key light. The key is camera left (possibly being bounced of the set walls for a broader light) illuminating the camera left side of the actors' faces. There will also be a fill light frame right providing illumination bringing the camera right side of the faces up to an exposure that matches the "Look" you're going for.

The background is then lit either by bounce form the light coming in from the windows, or from a light off one of the sides of the frame to bring the walls into exposure.

(Image E & F)The last and final one is outdoors, no shadows, direct noon sunlight though the shot is still very cool:
(two screen grabs, same shot just one long and one close up). How do they avoid "overexposure" in these situations?
image[/IMG]

sun is back left of camera (very high) providing a rim light on the actors, in this shot, the ground may be providing the fill from underneath... but could possibly be a 1K (or large reflector) or so blasting up at them filling in the shade portions of their bodies.

[URL="http://s4.postimage.org/inm0lhbwb/image.png"]http://s4.postimage.org/inm0lhbwb/image.png

This also has the sun high frame left as a rim light, but the faces are lit using a large gold reflector (look at the necks and ask yourself if that is a natural lighting effect - step outside on a sunny day if you're unsure).


Hopefully, this helps. Look at the images and find the brightest part of the subject, then figure out where the light is for that - and determine where the shadow then would be for it... then provide a way that that shadow is filled in with light... light travels in a cone away from a light source.

 

[Youssef]

Damn, awesome reply, Knightly. Although there are some terms and expressions I'm not entirely familiar with yet, Let me quote and and comment.

Your primary light (key) should be the one that is used to set the exposure, then the rest of the lights set the tone/mood.

So does the key have to be artificial? Or it can be something like the sun for example? (outdoors) In one of the shots, the sun was used as the "hairlight" as you referred to it, but this isn't a rule of thumb, right? I mean, sun can be used as key or hairlight, can it also be used as fill light? Another question, does the key light need to be directly facing the character?

I had one other question regarding lighting setup when on location. Say, during location inspection, I have that shot on the beach in the morning that I want to shoot. How do I start? I mean, I get the actor to stand there infront of me with no lighting except the sun's. Then what? I see were the shade is falling and grab a fill light. Then? Hope you get what I mean by this. What do I look for, before setting any lighting up and how do I base the decisions upon.

http://www.indietalk.com/showthread.php?t=9597

Thanks for this, although not precisely what I was looking for since there are many terms, expressions and lighting gear that I'm not familair with hence couldn't follow through but I did pull up some basic lighting articles from Google that cover these topics and am studying them now.

warm up the light with some orange gels to imply a dimmer/warmer light rather than the bluish cast the current light has - other than that, it seems good to me... perhaps a little flicker to it with a dimmer.

Yeah well, question is, why did they choose that "bluish cast" in your opinion?

Sunlight with a LARGE bounce to fill in the actors and bring them up within the acceptable levels forced upon the shooter by the background exposure... it may be being supplemented by a couple of 5K lights as well. Note the actors are staged in the shade as well... this allows the DP to bring the light up to the background and define the contrast within the image rather than being a slave to the ambient lighting.

This part is pretty clear I believe. By "bounce" you mean "reflector"? Also from the articles I went through, 5K lights = daylight balance, this matches sunlight right?

This shot is at night and the lights in the pool are being used to light the trees in the background to give the background some definition, these are probably being supplemented by a light off frame right (which you can see illuminating the top right of the lamp post). A couple of can lights in the bushes provide more orange streaks balancing the image with is quite heavy frame right while the left would otherwise be very blue.

The foreground light is motivated by the standing lamp frame right... but if you notice her face, it's lit from much farther away from the camera than that "practical" light would provide. So there's probably a light off frame right providing exposure for the subject's camera right side.

The left foreground is dark and movement will make it take shape more than the still image does.

So let me try to break that down, see if I understand anything. You're saying that off frame right there are roughly two lights. One is blue that supplements the pool light. So by this, I understand that the bluish light on the bushes isn't just coming from the pool only. Left on-frame background and foreground have those orange lights that compensate for the blue light off frame right.

OK so the key light here is the orange off frame right light. What about the rear / fill lights? I can assume that the rear light would be the blue one coming from the pool maybe?

The hairlight/rimlight (back frame right of the subjects) separates them from the background and seems to be from the sunlight (although many interior sets are faked to have more control over outside light - so that would be a large light upper right that is brighter than the key light. The key is camera left (possibly being bounced of the set walls for a broader light) illuminating the camera left side of the actors' faces. There will also be a fill light frame right providing illumination bringing the camera right side of the faces up to an exposure that matches the "Look" you're going for.

Getting a bit confused with the "back frame right", "off frame left"...etc. Mind elaborating a little bit on all those directions? Other than I think I get the general idea.

sun is back left of camera (very high) providing a rim light on the actors, in this shot, the ground may be providing the fill from underneath... but could possibly be a 1K (or large reflector) or so blasting up at them filling in the shade portions of their bodies.

Well didn't quite get how the ground provided the fill light. You talked about rim and fill, what about the key? Also why does the fill have to come from underneath? Maybe because the sun is at the back of the camera, and thus there would be no other way of doing it to fix the shadows?

This also has the sun high frame left as a rim light, but the faces are lit using a large gold reflector (look at the necks and ask yourself if that is a natural lighting effect - step outside on a sunny day if you're unsure).

I did look at the neck, but isn't that the rim light coming from sun?

Thanks a lot for the incredible help. Had some other separate questions:

1) How is lighting setup in scenes when there is movement, running...etc? DP assistants definitely do not go running around during shooting to adjust lights after each step the actor takes, right?

2) With regards to rim light, wouldn't it be only applicable in close shots? I mean, with longer shots, were would you put rim light? It's supposed to light the back / hair of the character, so how would it be possible to put it without having it exposed to the camera?

Thanks!

 

[knightly]

In no particular order:

Terminology Questions
- On our sets, when discussing the image, we use frame (or camera) right and left as stage right and stage left would be in production... so that both sides of the equation know which direction we're talking about.

- Off frame is specifically just anything that is beyond the edges of the world defined by the camera. Front and Back are much like up and down stage (front closer to the camera and back farther).

- By Bounce, I do mean Reflector, but they don't always have to be shiny. We perceive color as light hits an object and is affected by the surface of the object. So if the sun hits the ground (which appears brown), the brown light is reflected back onto the actors from the direction of the plane of the ground (underneath).

Physics of Light/Photography:
- Think of light as a single atom which radiates energy (light) in a sphere. When you put this atom inside a container with one end open in a circular shape, the light that is allowed to pass resembles a cone. If you place a light so that it travels between two objects, the edges of the cone can hit both objects. In the case of the Pool, the blue light hitting the trees in the background could be turned so that the edge of the cone nearest the camera hits the back of the actor as well causing a rim light effect with only one light.

-The key light can be anything natural or artificial, it's generally an aesthetic choice for the Director/DP which direction that light comes from. Normally though, the audience wants to be able to see the subject's eyes as this is how we generally relate to other people. So, in cases where you are specifically keeping the front of the actor's faces dark - "catch lights" in the eyes (lights just bright enough to show in the camera without affecting exposure) will allow the audience to relate to the actor.

Breakdowns:
- Your breakdown of the pool scene seems spot on.
- I don't know about the bluish cast, you'd have to ask them.
- When attacking a shot (especially with natural light), I like to visit the location before the shoot, but at the same time it's scheduled to be used (bring your sound guy as well). Blocking out the scene will show you where you can put a camera (bring it and look through it)... where the sun light is (which you have little control over other than time of day) will define where the other lights/reflectors go, so exactly how you attacked it in your question above. Keep in mind, if the sun is in front of the camera at all, it can cause lens flares, so you should have someone "Flag" the lens to prevent the light from directly hitting the lens.
- your breakdown of the ground reflector is spot on as well... since we can't move the sun, we counter it using reflectors and lights.
- Wide shot rim lights are generally hidden behind objects in the background if used at all (see any 80's mystery/horror film).