Legal Issues with funding

[IthinkIlikeFilm]

(You can skip down to the questions if you want..lol) Ok, so I am reading a lot about grants, a lot about funding, non profit org status, a lot about pitching, budget proposals, treatments, blah blah....ok, while I can see how this is completely critical! I am unable to find anything about laws. I even went to the law school at my university and was told that "they don't know if they have anyone that specializes in legal issues for entertainment or film!" I suddenly realize that there isn't a film department at the university here at all! I have a friend who even went to film school and when I asked about budgeting and funding for a Independent documentary, he was baffled....I have picked up a couple of books...."Independent Feature Film Production",.....blah blah..etc.. all fruitless....they seem to put off the legal explanations for "See an attorney".. My questions are simple...


I am only needing around $5000 to do this

Question 1) What do I need to do, legally...to walk into an organization...have a meeting...give a proposal...and request money!

Question 2) What do I need to do legally in order to accept donations?
Surely, I just can't legally talk to a group of people, ask for large sums of money, and walk off.

Question 3) Will I need a non-profit org? or "fiscal sponsor"

Thanks! I was sooo happy to find these forums...and a knowledgeable community of people I can speak with...gasp

p.s. If this question has been asked in the past - Sorry, I did search the forums for "funding" and didn't find anything other than 21 posts that didn't really help with my particular issue..

-James

 

[indietalk]

 

[clive]

Entertainment law is complex and specialised and I wouldn't take any advice given on a forum about it, except this one: find a good entertainments lawyer to handle your legal work.

However, there is something else that's worth saying and that's that you're not going to be able to get "meetings" to pitch for $5,000 ... you get meetings when you're ready to pitch for $5M plus (and that's considered low budget)

So, what you're really talking about is a mixture of business and soft funding arrangements. (soft funding is the term used for any grants you can apply for which don't need repaying)

The grant applications are all straight-forward... grant applications provide a list of judging criteria, the trick is to make sure your application ticks all the right boxes, they'll have their own terms and conditions.

Any other kind of funding comes under regular business law or non-profit trading agreements (so varies from country to country)

If you're looking for investors, then you have to be able to present a business plan and show how their investment will benefit them.... investor agreements are legally binding documents and lay out when, how much and in what order people get paid back. You will need a lawyer to draw up one of these agreements and to be honest the legal cost could easily be larger than your entire budget.

If you're looking for hand-outs/donations etc. then I'm not sure of the legal status in the US... it's not something I've ever had to do.

 

[directorik]

Welcome James,

Your questions are simple. the answers are very complicated. As
you found out, even film schools don’t deal with these answers.
Imagine paying for film school and still not understand the
business of getting a movie made.

Answer 1) You need to be very, very prepared. That proposal needs
to be complete. All organizations giving out grants have very
specific guidelines and rules. You need to know these and follow
them to the letter.

Answer 2) This really is an answer only a lawyer can give you.
There are major legal differences between asking family and
friends for money to further your career and soliciting donations
from people unknown to you.

Answer 3) Many people are a little confused about what "not-for-profit"
means. Legally the term doesn't mean your product (in this case a
movie) may not make a profit, it means your company is set up as
(in most cases) a charitable organization. By it's very nature
the making of a movie isn't "not-for-profit" - the entire point
is to earn back the money and a profit even if you don't.

So unless you are making a movie that a nonprofit needs to further
their particular charity you won’t be able to get fiscal sponsorship.

Are you making a feature or a short?

 

[IthinkIlikeFilm]

Thanks for replies so far. It will be a feature film; I actually plan on traveling in the U.S. in 3 weeks...

as far

you're not going to be able to get "meetings" to pitch for $5,000

- I have to disagree, call it my arrogance or naivety, but the very audience I wish to represent in this documentary, they are extremely under-analyzed, controversial, and are among the last remaining major minorities. There are many communities/organization to which I could convince that funding this project is not only beneficial and necessary for our/their image (socially/politically), but is also their responsibility. We are a tight and caring group, and there is no reason that any member of this minority would not feel ecstatic about the project (Just as there really hasn't been a member yet, that hasn't felt a great sense of relief when told)....

I have given many speeches on this topic and even was president of a student org. at my old university. I also have a science Nobel laureate who has agreed to be interviewed! and I haven't even started informing and scheduling interviews in other states.

I, luckily, have my friend who went to film school as my cameraman and editor - So, despite being a nobody, the project has affiliation with a "track record".

directorik,

So unless you are making a movie that a nonprofit needs to further
their particular charity you won’t be able to get fiscal sponsorship.

I guess I was really asking, What is the overall benefit of getting nonprofit org status, or a fiscal sponsor? and would it be a better idea for me to consider that route. The documentary I have in mind is something that could easily appear on BBC, PBS, or Discovery (The old discovery channel anyway), but due to the way it will be shot and the social significance attached to it, it wouldn't have to be limited to the "educational" category. All in theory anyway, I suppose I really have no idea what this will turn out like once with are done with it....BUT THAT IS WHAT IS SO INTERESTING!!

Thanks again!

 

[clive]

I have to disagree, call it my arrogance or naivety, but the very audience I wish to represent in this documentary, they are extremely under-analyzed, controversial, and are among the last remaining major minorities.

OK... would have helped to know that you were talking about a doco... and that when you said "meeting to pitch for funding" you meant social enterprise funding. (Correct use of terminology is the baseline for competence in this industry... otherwise you're just wasting people's time)

Two things:

Docos burn much more footage than drama, because you can't control the shooting ratio... so, feature length doco on film on $5,000 doesn't sound workable to me... unless you can get it down to less than a 2:1 shooting ratio and also get all of your telecine and DI for nothing.

Students are often barred from seeking grant aided funding... for obvious reasons, you may find it a handicap when you're approaching social interest groups as well.

Finally, ignorance and naivety is one thing... arrogance serves no one, especially in this industry.

 

[IthinkIlikeFilm]

Thanks for the new jargon.


I'm shooting digitally; we aren't using actual film, so the shooting ratio isn't going to factor unless we have to buy tons of hard drives. Also, $5000 is what I need to raise, I actually have a little bit ready to be put into the project, but over all it is going to be done very cheaply. But that is art, bringing order to chaos...what's more creative than being creative with limited means?

as for:

Students are often barred from seeking grant aided funding... for obvious reasons, you may find it a handicap when you're approaching social interest groups as well.

Perhaps It will be reassuring for them to know that I will be shooting it immediately after graduation? (Ohhh..more money from family members...^^) If my status is a handicap, too bad; I can't be what I am not. I have to more on and try anyway. Lets just hope I will be witty, professional, and charismatic enough to convince these people otherwise.

arrogance serves no one, especially in this industry.

Agreed. - Lucky, I never claimed to be arrogant.

 

[clive]

Hmm... what I don't understand is why you're not developing your pitch for TV, instead of self funded production.

Docos are most often funded as TV programming... I should know I'm in the middle of a BBC pitch as we speak.

I've worked a lot in the social enterprise sector as a film maker... and one of the questions I always ask myself is this:

Is the funding I'm diverting into my project actually helping the group I'm working with or am I just using them as a soft funding target?

It's very hard to stay the right side of exploitation in the doco business... especially when you're working with the socially vulnerable... doubly so when you're going to their funding sources to pay for production.

Yeap, sorry about the film reference... got you mixed up with another newbie in a different thread... similar budget ranges... you all start to blur together after a while

 

[directorik]

directorik,



I guess I was really asking, What is the overall benefit of getting nonprofit org status, or a fiscal sponsor? and would it be a better idea for me to consider that route. The documentary I have in mind is something that could easily appear on BBC, PBS, or Discovery (The old discovery channel anyway), but due to the way it will be shot and the social significance attached to it, it wouldn't have to be limited to the "educational" category. All in theory anyway, I suppose I really have no idea what this will turn out like once with are done with it....BUT THAT IS WHAT IS SO INTERESTING!!

Thanks again!

I don't know anything about your project so I don't know
what the better route for you is.

The benefit of getting a fiscal sponsor is you don't have to
apply for nonprofit status. But remember, getting nonprofit
status or being sponsored by a nonprofit organization isn't
about "significance attached " or even education. While many
nonprofit organizations are educational, most are charitable
in nature.

A documentary made to be sold to BBC, PBS, or Discovery isn't
considered nonprofit. Are you sure your project meets the legal
not for profit status?