Kickstarter vs. IndieGoGo

[cameronchapman]

I'm about to start fundraising for my feature, and for the first round, I'm planning on using some crowdfunding. (Tentative plan at this point is raise enough with crowdfunding to secure cast and crew, then either do a second round of crowdfunding for production or seek more traditional financing once I have actors and crew attached and know I can pay them regardless of what happens).

So the big decision at this point is which site do I want to use? Or, more accurately, on which site am I more likely to be successful?

The way I see it, these are the pros and cons of each?

Kickstarter Pros:
- Seems to have more traffic (Quantcast puts them at around 100k-150k US visitors/month).
- Possibly a more recognizable brand.
- ETA: Seems to fund more large-budget projects successfully (with a number of film projects getting over $100k in funding).

Kickstarter Cons:
- Charges a 5% processing fee, plus 3-5% credit card processing fee.
- Only get money if goal is reached. If the goal isn't reached, then none of the money goes through.
- ETA: Must have a US bank account to start a project.

IndieGoGo Pros:
- Lower processing fee of only 4%, plus 3% credit card processing fee if you reach your goal (9% if you don't).
- You get to keep whatever money is raised, even if you don't reach your goal.

IndieGoGo Cons:
- Doesn't seem to have as much traffic/name recognition as Kickstarter.
- Has significantly less traffic than Kickstarter (Quantcast puts them at only 5.5k US visitors/month).
- ETA: Seems to work best with projects that need less than $10k in funds (and even better when they only need to raise around $5k).

But I'd love to hear any first-hand experiences people have had using either. I guess the big hangup I have is that with Kickstarter, I could get within a few hundred dollars of my goal, not reach it, and have to start all over again. But they also seem to be the more recognized of the two sites.

 

[Kholi]

hum, Id advise against anything other than a sit down interview style. People want to SEE who they are giving money too, they want to FEEL your honesty, etc. Sure throw in some clips etc, but that more "experimental" you go, the smaller your audience ... you want to appeal to the MASSES for money..

To be honest, what you're saying is a bit off-base, as well. A broad audience on kickstarter isn't going to help you raise much more money, if any at all. You were right about the human aspect, as that's what really launches any kickstarter forward...

But, for people with no names or grande following the niche-based attack is the way to go, not the broad. When you go broad you're competing with larger properties and other people going broad. I know this from experience.

Our kickstarter did raise the goal of 17.5K, but it's because we had an angel... and, we were BROAD as heck, have a serious reel (visual, etc) and we almost did NOT make it.

The most successful campaigns have heart, soul, and a number of years of independent voice behind them.

I AM I
Mosquita y Maria (I think that's the name)
DOwn and Dangerous -- My friend Zak's campaign, which had Smokin' Joe Carnhan tweeting about it.

And, many more.

The gyst of it is: know a lot of people that have thirty-five dollars or so to spare ($35.00) and want to see you succeed, or know someone with a lot of money that'll be your angel.

or...

Build a real network of true fans over the span of six years then kickstart your project.

 

[wheatgrinder]

Good points Kholi, I was thinking the more experimental an unknown like me tried to go, the less appeal Id have for a general audience of potential contributors... . I really dig your comment on the niche vs broad, Ill have to incorporate that more clearly in my strategy!

I noticed the IamI camping had 3 contribution of over $10K each. So, your point about angles is right on the money. Need to find me a couple of those..lol

EDIT:

Also, my next project will be decidedly cheaper than the IAMI campaign, $3k tops, what different approaches seem to make sense to you?

 

[Kholi]

Good points Kholi, I was thinking the more experimental an unknown like me tried to go, the less appeal Id have for a general audience of potential contributors... . I really dig your comment on the niche vs broad, Ill have to incorporate that more clearly in my strategy!

Try to compare some horror-based kickstarters to something more mumblecore. It's a pretty visual example of what I mean.

The next project we're kickstarting (barring that this other isn't funded in the next month) is going to be hyper-niche, and we're going for much more money than before. Thinking around fifty thousand, the goal set, and then an overage of twenty to thirty thousand after the goal.

I noticed the IamI camping had 3 contribution of over $10K each. So, your point about angles is right on the money. Need to find me a couple of those..lol

Yeah, pretty much. And, I've met one of the people in that kickstarter video. His feature sold last year for quite a decent amount of money overseas... trust, these people have a network and it's not a small one.

EDIT:

Also, my next project will be decidedly cheaper than the IAMI campaign, $3k tops, what different approaches seem to make sense to you?

AT three grand you should be okay to go with indieGogo or Kickstarter, the amount's really not that much and you're likely to only have friends and family pitching in, anyway. TO boot, I would avoid either of those and just get the money from a paypal service link or something similar so you don't have to A. Wait on your money, b. Have someone take anything out of it.

 

[cameronchapman]

With respect my dear girl I don't believe you are much like these people.. http://iamithefilm.com/filmmakers/ there is some heavy hitting credits and names in there. The success of their campaign is largely the result of their EXTENSIVE filmmaking network and previous success and Im sure has little to do with the pitch video. I know that I would not model my campaign after them, of course you may do as you chose, and I may very well donate, but I would do more research on low budget campaigns that are successful before commiting to this course...

EDIT: Wow, that came of condescending, please dont take it that way..

Didn't take it as condescending at all. And I don't expect a video alone to do much (other than hopefully encourage the people I already know to share it with their networks), but I was just using that as an example of an awesome video that did something different. I want to do something equally different.

Personally, it seems like the interview style of video seems to work great if you already know the person. But if you're trying to get people who don't know you (even if it's just a friend-of-a-friend) to donate, you need something with more of a hook. You need to get people to want to watch your video, so that then they'll read your full pitch and hopefully donate.

I look at it more like creating a compelling trailer (you've only got a few seconds to grab someone's attention), rather than a behind-the-scenes thing (which is more like what the interview-style videos strike me as).

I've been studying pretty much all the successful narrative film campaigns that have raised $10k+. Taking tons of notes, and reading up on people's blogs and elsewhere about how they crafted their campaigns to be successful.

 

[Kholi]

Didn't take it as condescending at all. And I don't expect a video alone to do much (other than hopefully encourage the people I already know to share it with their networks), but I was just using that as an example of an awesome video that did something different. I want to do something equally different.

It's good to do something different...but...

Personally, it seems like the interview style of video seems to work great if you already know the person. But if you're trying to get people who don't know you (even if it's just a friend-of-a-friend) to donate, you need something with more of a hook. You need to get people to want to watch your video, so that then they'll read your full pitch and hopefully donate.

The only hook you need is something people are interested in, or preferably care about. There isn't any other hook you can rely on. In fact...

I look at it more like creating a compelling trailer (you've only got a few seconds to grab someone's attention), rather than a behind-the-scenes thing (which is more like what the interview-style videos strike me as).

It's likely that if you aren't the next great filmmaker and it's obvious from a scene or two (which it never is, no matter who you are) then it'll probably hurt you more than help you.

10K is nothing to raise... absolutely nothing, especially on KS. Just know a lot of people and spam facebook and twitter.

If all you're going after is 10K then what really matters is that you bust tail and spam everyone you know to give up 25.00 or more. If you're going for something in the range of 25K+ then it's a different story.

 

[cameronchapman]

10K is nothing to raise... absolutely nothing, especially on KS. Just know a lot of people and spam facebook and twitter.

If all you're going after is 10K then what really matters is that you bust tail and spam everyone you know to give up 25.00 or more. If you're going for something in the range of 25K+ then it's a different story.

This is good to hear. I'm guessing (haven't finalized the budget yet) I'll be going for somewhere between $10k and $15k (I'm breaking funding up into blocks, and this is to basically secure cast and crew, I'll be pursuing other funding routes for other things). I've got around 2500 Twitter followers and 500 Facebook "friends", plus a decent network on Google+, LinkedIn and Quora (including some actual industry contacts, though no one I've got any kind of relationship with).

 

[Lucky Hardwood]

I'm leaning more toward IndieGoGo because I plan to shoot this sucker with whatever budget I can get. If I only raise a couple of thousand for it, that's my budget and I'll have to make it work.

 

[wheatgrinder]

I leaning that way too..

 

[SinEater]

I like what Philip Bloom and Brian Ramage did for Riven. They didn't reach their goal on Kickstarter, but they rethought their budget and are now hoping that a percentage of the people who pledged on Kickstarter will pledge money directly to them to get the pilot done. (Their original goal was $48,000, they've rethought it and decided that with a barebones budget they could do it for $25,000, and they had $30,000 in pledges, so it's just a matter of reaching those people to pledge directly now.)

While it was a good plan to try to salvage things, it doesn't look like it's going to succeed. They set a self-imposed deadline of today for the paypal direct pledges, and have only made it to $7,600 out of the $25,000 they need. Now what's going to happen with the money that was PayPal'ed? They have some big names in the project so I'm thinking they'll figure out something for the funding, but it's still weird for them to have $7,600 of donated cash and not really have a plan in place.

 

[davidevans10]

This is why I will never donate through IndieGoGo unless I
personally know the the filmmaker. I think this boarders on
a scam. The filmmaker keeps my money even if they do not
make the movie?

so i guess if you had a real trailer and most the movie made. And you need some money to finish it properly, indiegogo would be the best bet ?

 

[SkyCopeland]

so i guess if you had a real trailer and most the movie made. And you need some money to finish it properly, indiegogo would be the best bet ?

Your best bet is still Kickstarter... simply more people trust it. If you're close to finishing and have stuff to show that you've already given it your all, all the more reason to be on KS where people respect that kind of thing.

IndieGoGo has only 1 true advantage and that's allowing non-profit organizations give tax credits for donations so films that are fiscally sponsored should use IndieGoGo.

 

[davidevans10]

Your best bet is still Kickstarter... simply more people trust it. If you're close to finishing and have stuff to show that you've already given it your all, all the more reason to be on KS where people respect that kind of thing.

IndieGoGo has only 1 true advantage and that's allowing non-profit organizations give tax credits for donations so films that are fiscally sponsored should use IndieGoGo.

if your like me though and not into social media and getting it out there and just need to rely on what you have to gain a little needed money. indiegogo?

 

[SkyCopeland]

if your like me though and not into social media and getting it out there and just need to rely on what you have to gain a little needed money. indiegogo?

As DirectorRik said earlier, he'd only back something on IndieGoGo if he knew the person personally. That's kinda how any backing is done on IGG. You'd actually need MORE social media presence to successful raise the same amount of money that you could with less of a presence on KickStarter. Less people use the site, less randoms.

Plus if you're going on IGG without fiscal sponsor and not offering tax deductions, you're actually at a disadvantage to the ones that do. The small amount of randoms that are on IGG are normally looking for those.

KickStarter looks scary, but it's not really. It's where you'll find that actual last needed funding from those who want to support you. But it's not easy, you have to prove it and you have to let them know you're there. No other way.

If you go IndieGoGo with less social presence than it takes to fund on KS, you're going to need to pray that your friends and families back it.

 

[WalterB]

david seems to mean: "Should I use IndieGoGo when I set a goal and I'm not sure I will reach that goal, because I stay away from social media, but not reaching the goal will not stop the project from being finished. I just need every extra dollar I can get to make it even better than it otherwise will be."

It has been discussed before:
1) people tend to give less to flexible funded projects that seem to 'fail' reaching their goal, because that often means the project can't be made the way it was promised. Even if you can finish it without extra funding you should ask yourself: "What are people buying if I raise only a little money? Me composing the score on a my first sony cassettedeck instead of using the great songs I promised them?"

2) if you don't want to run a campaign you are depending on coincidental visitors: that pool of people is larger on KS, but KS only does 'all or nothing' campaigns. No flexible funding like IGG.

So it seems that on IGG yo don't have to stress about your campaign reaching it's goal, but at the same time reaching that goal is also less likely if you don't want to get it out there.

Doing a crowdfunding with a campaign is like opening a shop nobody can find: it's hard to sell something that way...

 

[SkyCopeland]

david seems to mean: "Should I use IndieGoGo when I set a goal and I'm not sure I will reach that goal, because I stay away from social media, but not reaching the goal will not stop the project from being finished. I just need every extra dollar I can get to make it even better than it otherwise will be."

Oh okay. Typically I'd still advise against this. People are more cautious on IGG, and they're even MORE cautious of projects with the Flexible Funding option turned on. Honestly, I've seen little practical use of the flexible funding option. It's like "I need 2 grand to make this project. I can't make it without 2 grand, but if we raise 1 grand, I'll take that."

The entire point of GOAL on Kickstarter is the absolute MINIMUM you need to do this project. Then Stretch Goals are were you make the project better, this is where you try to reach your true goal far above the set goal.

It's been proven that stretch goals planned before the KS even launches has a positive effect on backers. They want to overfund a project they like, psychologically you feel like you're improving your investment even though most Stretch Goals were planned for (and sometimes already paid for).

Personally I think the Flexible Funding has the opposite effect on the psych. The actual goal becomes the new stretch goal because the project manager is willing to settle for whatever money he/she can get.

 

[davidevans10]

As DirectorRik said earlier, he'd only back something on IndieGoGo if he knew the person personally. That's kinda how any backing is done on IGG. You'd actually need MORE social media presence to successful raise the same amount of money that you could with less of a presence on KickStarter. Less people use the site, less randoms.

Plus if you're going on IGG without fiscal sponsor and not offering tax deductions, you're actually at a disadvantage to the ones that do. The small amount of randoms that are on IGG are normally looking for those.

KickStarter looks scary, but it's not really. It's where you'll find that actual last needed funding from those who want to support you. But it's not easy, you have to prove it and you have to let them know you're there. No other way.

If you go IndieGoGo with less social presence than it takes to fund on KS, you're going to need to pray that your friends and families back it.

Again though. Your showing a film thats mostly made. Whole different scenario. Yes?

 

[SkyCopeland]

Again though. Your showing a film thats mostly made. Whole different scenario. Yes?

No.

 

[davidevans10]

No.

have you seen any like that? i havent. so do you know?

 

[SkyCopeland]

have you seen any like that? i havent. so do you know?

I actually see it quite often on KickStarter and they do pretty well since they have something to show.

The fact you have the project almost done, has NOTHING to do with the equation. The equation is how likely are randoms to stumble upon your no social presence and want to donate. As you have a MUCH higher random rate on KS, you have a better chance. On IGG they have multiple deterrents on top of a much smaller random rate.

The user base is fact regardless of projects.

 

[davidevans10]

I actually see it quite often on KickStarter and they do pretty well since they have something to show.

The fact you have the project almost done, has NOTHING to do with the equation. The equation is how likely are randoms to stumble upon your no social presence and want to donate. As you have a MUCH higher random rate on KS, you have a better chance. On IGG they have multiple deterrents on top of a much smaller random rate.

The user base is fact regardless of projects.

ok thanks for that. so if your worried about getting nothing or not reaching the goal. just set it low?