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Is three-point lighting- intended for every subject?

J

jjb

Hi,
On all the things that i have read about the standard three point lighting setup, the articles are never specific on what to do with multiple subjects. Does each actor on set have to have their own key, fill and backlight, or is one of each all that is required to light the set and all the actors.

For arguments sake, this is assuming that the director wants mainly even high key lighting.

Thank you
 
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Any lighting concept like "three point lighting" is about the light that falls on the subject, not specifically about the lights themselves. With a single subject it typically translates to three actual lights, but with multiple subjects you may have to add more lights - but generally not three per person unless the individual subjects are spread too far apart to cover. So the actual number is really dependent upon the distance between the subjects and the size and nature of the lights you're using. Whatever the actual number of lights used is, the point is to decide what you want the lighting to look like for your subjects and use as many lights as it takes to achieve that look.
 
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The key thing to remember about Three Point Lighting is less that it's 3 lights and the formality of it as much as it is making sure your subject(s) separate from the background and create a three dimensionality in the frame.
 
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There's actually a technique called the "Dibbie Cross" that's used in tons of TV work (named for George Dibbie, DP)... Two lights on the opposite side of the characters from the camera high up provide both rim light on the actor nearest the light and a short key on the farther actor from the respective light.

Fill is then added to the front of the setup to match the mood which translates to 3-4 lights for two actors.
 
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Think of the key light as the source light.

In a kitchen in the morning the light coming in is likely the sun.
there are no other lights on in the room. So if there are three
people in the kitchen there is still only one key light.

In a living room at night there might be several sources of light.
Two lamps for example. In that case there could be two key lights,
one representing each lamp in the room.

The other lights (in three point lighting) represent fill and back
light. We don’t always notice it with our eyes but the camera,
with it’s fixed iris, cannot always handle the small details. So
we add some fill in the shadow areas and some backlight to
separate the subject from the background. This makes a more
“realistic” image.
 
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So is it possible, in the night scenario, to have the actual lamps act as the keys, or just to represent them? Meaning you would replace them with a more professional light offscreen, although if this were the case, where would you put them if you wanted a wide shot of the entire room that included the lamps?

Sorry if im asking basic knowledge here. Btw, does anyone have any recommendations for a book that teaches about lighting for film or cinematography in general? That might help me clear up some questions. Thanks.
 
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good questions.. dont be sorry..

The idea is light can be "motivated." Instead of light just sorta being there in your frame, there is a REASON it is there. Picture a table lamp.. In shot A we see a table lamp to the left of the actor and in a close up Shot B, the left side of the actors face is lit a bit brighter... the motivation for the light on the actors face is the table lamp, though in reality the "light" that is actually falling on the actors face was provided by some other piece of light gear. This is movie magic...
 
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jjb said:
So is it possible, in the night scenario, to have the actual lamps act as the keys, or just to represent them? Meaning you would replace them with a more professional light offscreen, although if this were the case, where would you put them if you wanted a wide shot of the entire room that included the lamps?
Click to expand...
You keep using the question, "is it possible?"

The good news is, yes, it's possible to do anything
you want to do when lighting a movie. As you are
learning about lighting for movies it is possible to
try many different methods. The questions you
pose can be answered by taking your camera out
into the field (or street or kitchen or bedroom or
living room) and trying your ideas. Try putting
more powerful bulbs into your lamps and see if that
works. Try putting a scoop light next to the lamp
and one behind the actor to see if you like that
look. Try bouncing the light from a work light off
the walls or ceiling and adding a little fill to see if
you like the way that looks.

Try anything you can think of and shoot several,
simple scenes of three people talking in the room
until you find a look and method that works for you.

Usually it's best to use movable, adjustable lights
(and equipment like flags and scrims) to have more
control, but using practical lights (like your lamp at
home) can be done, too.

jjb said:
Sorry if im asking basic knowledge here. Btw, does anyone have any recommendations for a book that teaches about lighting for film or cinematography in general? That might help me clear up some questions. Thanks.
Click to expand...
Sure, check out THIS WEBSITE and THIS ONE and
these books Motion Picture and Video Lighting by Blain
Brown, Painting With Light by John Alton and Basics of
Video Lighting by Des Lyver and Graham Swainson.
 
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Excellent resources, directorik. I do have some questions about zebras (and I am asking this from a genral POV as most of what is captured should be based on the look and feel the director is aiming to achieve) - are you aware of a guideline for what percentages to set your zebras - 75%, 80% or 90%? Is the percentages art, science or both? As always, thanks for the knowledeg.
 
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Okay,

Not the best example, but interesting in that it shows a strong theatrical look using a motivated light source (very common in Storaro's work) which then takes on a very unmotivated characteristic.

The shadow bands make sense for the blinds in the set deco; albeit they are much bolder than would be natural. At about 54 seconds into the clip, the bands of shadow start moving around for no apparent reason. It doesn't happen again until around the 2:25 mark. It looks great and plays well as an expression of the girls state, or of the mans if you read it differently.

If you haven't seen "The Conformist," I cannot recommend it enough. If I can find a link for the opening shot, I'll post that as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrRoV0smaJg

Also note the use of blocking at about 1:46.

I am crossing threads here a little I think, but I wanted to start off with this clip. I'm looking for good samples of blatantly unmotivated lighting - noticed some moments when I rewatched Sin City, for example. The point is that expressionistic or theatrical light need not be unmotivated, and that not everything that light does has to be motivated by a logical action or object.

Caveat: Use these techniques with caution, if at all.
 
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Thanks.

That's currently one of my favorite films. Great stuff. I'm looking for more examples. The beginning of the first Saw movie is a great example of unmotivated lighting going terribly wrong.

Can't find a clean copy online at the moment, but in the beginning the room is supposed to be so dark that the main character is feeling his way around. In the DVD version (didn't see it in theaters) the room is dimly lit with blue light but still bright enough to really be able to see easily. I hated it. So lame. When the main lights come on and the character reacts to the "brighter" light it's just not believable because the earlier shots weren't dark enough.

Now, the led key-fob going down the drain works excellently. It's the rest that fails from a lighting perspective IMO.

Shorten the action, do it with sound over darkness, then blast the lights on as desired.

In answer to the original question. No. "3-point" lighting is not always necessary. It is simply a technique for creating dimension and separation for the subject being lit. The variations on it are endless, you'll have different arrangements for multiple characters sometimes, sometimes you'll just have a single bulb going, others you'll have dozens upon dozens of small instruments all over a set.
 
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