film-school Is this film school course worth taking?

H

harmonica44

I am not exactly a newbie here, but I wasn't sure where else to post this, when it comes to discussing film school. I was thinking of taking this course:

http://www.rais.ca/Motion Picture Arts

It's almost 12K and I was wondering if it was worth the money, or if they do not really teach enough...? Other people who I have talked to that went to different film schools, say that it was a waste of money and time, cause what they learnt was obsolete, and didn't help them in the filmmaking world of the current day. So I was wonderng what you thought of this course from the looks of it. I took a tour of the school, and it seemed... okay, but not sure, since it was just a tour, and I cannot get a full impression from it.

I talked to one student who is currently going there so far, and she says it's good, but that is just one person's opinion so far, where as other's from other film schools says it ended up being a waste of money in the end, when they could have put that money to better use. So what do you think?
 
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Okay thanks. Some people in the industry I asked, had a look at the program and said even if I put the hard work into it, I will not learn anything good, cause the school itself, does not have good assignments to offer, that would actually be effective.

They said that me being on the crew, is part of the problem, cause I will not get my money's worth out of it. They said that it's not the work I put in, it's the limitations of the assignments you are given. They also told me that the networking I learn will do no good in the industry, cause you only learn how to network in Saskatchewan, Canada, where I live, as oppose to a school that teaches networking on a national or even international level. So I was looking really forward to going, but now after hearing this, I am actually quite discouraged from it. I was ready to put in all the hard work, but if the assignments will not teach me what I need to learn, and if the networking is ineffective, cause it's not on a national scale, I am not sure what decision to make now.
 
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Oh sorry, I didn't mean to make it circular. I just have this fear that no matter how hard I try at the school, it may not do any good if the assignments they give you are ineffective, like I was told.

They said I might as well just fork over the extra 50K, to go Vancouver Film School, since I will learn a lot more there, but then there are others that they say they didn't learn anything good there, and it was all a history lesson mostly. There seems to be no accurate opinions, and everyone is very mixed.
 
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How old are you H44?

Sounds to me like you need to go out and get some life experience, be forced to make a decision for once and learn what it is to be truly passionate about something.

I don't know if you're just being deliberately obtuse now for the fun of it..
 
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I don't mean to be obtuse, I am just indecisive, and not sure if the school is the best course of action, when other filmmakers say it won't do any good, cause the assignments are ineffective. I am 32.
 
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harmonica44 said:
I am just indecisive, and not sure if the school is the best course of action
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It's a better course of action than complaining and procrastinating on the internet :)

harmonica44 said:
the assignments are ineffective
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Ineffective for what?
You spend six months learning, and you get to make four short films while you're at it... That's pretty good for $9-12k... Works out to $2-3k/short...

That's pretty good value if you ask me. I don't know how you'd make four shorts for much less by yourself... and certainly I've worked on shorts that cost significantly more.
 
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They said that it was ineffective cause the short films will not be good enough, and that film schools do not make short films that are porfolio worthy, especially when I am only part of the crew on four of them, and have hardly any creative control therefore, or so I was told. I wouldn't procrastinate instead though. I would still do what I was told and make a short film without actors, or make even more than one, hoping it gather more cast and crew in the future with those shorts. I saw one of the shorts from the school done by a student, and it was bad (mostly sound and lighting), so it makes me wonder, maybe they don't have the resources to make ones that are porfolio worthy, but that was only one I saw.

They also said that 6 months is not near enough time to learn anything useful and that I need to go to a film school that takes more years (which means more money), or I can just use my money to make shorts, since 6 months isn't enough time, some said.
 
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You play this other mysterious group; "they" against us... the other group, eventually you need to make up your own mind! As has been said to you the last few years not just on this subject.

Deja vu, every damn thread.
 
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Well I don't mean to play anyone against each other, I was just trying to get the most opinions as possible. One filmmaker had a look at it and said that it feels too much like cliff notes, and you are not really getting down and dirty and learning what really matters. I just feel the majority is saying "don't do it!", where as I kind of wanted to do it, but also want to be smart and make the best decision as well.
 
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You seem like the kind of person that doesn't leave the house because there is a 0.0000676% chance a boulder will fall on you.
 
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Well to me that much money is a good chunk, and I grew up with a type of life, where it was not good to waste money, if people are saying it's a waste.

Plus some of the thigns the guy at the school said made me feel like I wasn't being sold on it. It says on the site that "note taking is minimal" for one thing. You think that if it was a good program there would be lots of good notes to take when learning. I also asked him if they go into teaching how to budget your filmmaking much... He said that they can modify the course so I do learn budgeting, but "most students fall asleep when it comes to learning budgeting though". This statement also made me feel like I wasn't being totally sold on the program as well.

So reading things like that made me have second thoughts as well.

What is the benefit of taking it though? I keep hearing why it's a waste but it seems that the benefits are participating as the crew on three shorts as well as directing one of my own, plus making some connections that maybe, and I emphasize MAYBE, might want to work with you again the in the future. But if six months isn't enough time, like I was told, than will those projects be any good, especially since I would just be part of the crew, and have very little control, on the turn out?
 
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Great. You made up your mind. You're not going to film school.

You were "told" reasons not to go, and by your own gut feeling it is not for you.

Now move on. :)
 
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So, now you know what to do: make 4 shorts on your own before August.
The poetry assignment is a good start.
Deadline is March 1st. Don't slack and mind you: if you finish a bit earlier, you'll have more time for the other 3.
So you need to have a recorded poem before January 26th and a first cut on February 17th.
Good luck!

PS.
Learning budgeting only makes sense when you know what you need to do to shoot something.
The shorts from my first year as a film student are not in my portfolio. Why? Although great fun to make and being very educational experiences they were first steps. You still seem to believe that is is normal to expect to be explained a few crafts and then you make a masterpiece. That hardly happens.

PPS.
Are you sure you enjoy filmmaking?
Taking it serious is good, but if you can't have fun and enjoy it you are just tormenting yourself.
Try to relax and don't be afraid to experiment and have fun with your 2nd short.
These students had fun with their assignment, although it might not pass your theme standards:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1upfkp7Tag
 
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Yeah I enjoy it. Sometimes it can be frustrating when I fail to get pre-production off the ground like I have before, but my first short I really enjoyed making, accept for the last day of shooting and some post production problems... I enjoyed it and had a blast otherwise.

So like any career, I enjoy it on it's good days, but not so much on it's bad days, if that's normal.
 
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Sweetie said:
What did you learn from making your first film?

What would you never do again?

What would you do differently? How so?

What would you continue to do? Why so?
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I learned a lot of things from making the first short. Mostly I would never again make one without a DP or PSM. Cause the first one I chose to make it without people as experienced in those areas, cause I wanted to get it made anyway, but I learned not to do it again, especially when it come result in too much ADR.

As to what I would differently, mainly I would cut down on shots, as I had too many per scene, and I need to cut down on shoot time, so less shots and angles. And of course get a PSM and DP. Another thing I would do differently is get different kinds of shots. Not that all of mind were bad or anything, I don't think, it's just that I have developed a different style of shots in the process of learning, that I think would be better, or more original to me.

As to what I would continue, doing I'm not sure since I feel my style has changed a lot since.
 
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Those 4 questions were more or less the 4 questions we had to answer after each assignment in the first year. Every team member had to write his own report.
Those were usually at least 2 pages long.
It was very insightfull to do.

And you should do it again H44 without:

"I learnt to use a DOP and PSM.
I'll never shoot without DOP and PSM again.
The thing that went wrong is that I worked without DOP and PSM."

You gave the same reply to 3 out of 4 questions.

Lets rephrase the questions:

- What went pretty well? What are you most proud off?

- Which things went wrong? And how?

- What would you do differently next time?

- What unexpected lessons did you learn?
 
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- What went pretty well? What are you most proud off?
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The actors did a good job and seemed to enjoy working on it. The editing went well. Some of the directing went well. I am most proud of the actors for doing a good job, and just proud of myself for doing it in general.

- Which things went wrong? And how?
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Not having a PSM made for a lack sound, which resulted in a lot of ADR. There were some problems with two of the locations, and had to cut the project short, and cut some of the story out as a result.

- What would you do differently next time?
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Next time I will use less shots, as the shoot time took too long, for everyone's liking, so I am going to structure the shots differently so there doesn't have to be as many to tell the story. I will also get a proper PSM and DP. I will also shoot more master shots, as I didn't use masters for every scene, but know to do it now, for safety.

- What unexpected lessons do you learn?
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I learned that continuity is more sensitive than I thought, and I should structure my thoughts more with continuity in mind. I also learned that I need to keep actors cognizant of continuity, but also at the same time, not to the point, where it is distracting their acting, and try to find a balance. I learned that shoot times take longer to set up and execute than I thought as well, hence why I will use less shots next time.
 
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I also learned that I need to keep actors cognizant of continuity, but also at the same time, not to the point, where it is distracting their acting, and try to find a balance.
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This is why a good script supervisor is important and valuable - (s)he keeps track of continuity so that it falls much less on the actors.
 
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Yep for sure. I want to learn how to get a script supervisor to be able to keep the actors in continuity but at the same time, not effect the actors performance, cause they are constantly thinking about it all the time, and cannot go wild in their performances.

I worked under a director and helped him edit his film project, and what he would do, to keep continuity in check is he would only use one take every time, cause that way, you don't have to worry about it, he said But the problem with that is, you only are able to choose one take, and it's good to pick the best parts of each, if possible, of course. That's another thing I learned is that I could borrow from several parts of different takes, more than I thought I could.

But definitely get a script supervisor for next time.
 
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