Is hiring an editor necessary?

R

RealJasonBourne

- Is hiring an editor really necessary? I've edited a ton of videos (not professional short films or anything), what do they do specifically other than gathering the clips and cutting them together?

- For sound is a music composer all I would need? Would they be able to do all the audio adjustments or is there another audio person that should do that, is it necessary?

- A professional DOP told me that I should hire a guy to do the color correcting because it's very important to have someone with a ton of experience in it to give you a nice professional look.

Thanks!
 
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Is hiring an editor really necessary? I've edited a ton of videos (not professional short films or anything), what do they do specifically other than gathering the clips and cutting them together?
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There's a saying I once heard. Movies get made three times. Once when written, once in pre-production and once in the editing suite. If it was as simple as cutting them all together, do you think editors would get paid so much?

For sound is a music composer all I would need? Would they be able to do all the audio adjustments or is there another audio person that should do that, is it necessary?
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umm, while it's possible, what you're asking is somewhat akin to, "You're a filmmaker, why do you need a crew?"

A professional DOP told me that I should hire a guy to do the color correcting because it's very important to have someone with a ton of experience in it to give you a nice professional look.
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I would go with a yes to this one. I did color grading on a short film after doing a couple of courses on the subject. I'll tell you, what I did was no better than a hack job.

All these questions and the hundreds of other questions have more to do with the production value you want in your production. If you're aiming for home video quality, you don't need any of them. If you're going for cinema distribution quality, you'll need all of them plus a whole lot more. I suspect you're somewhat in the middle, so your needs will reflect what you're trying to achieve.
 
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RealJasonBourne said:
Is hiring an editor really necessary? ... what do they do specifically other than gathering the clips and cutting them together?
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Nothing ... and Everything! Obviously a specialist editor will have better "chops" (be more efficient and find more elegant solutions to problems) than a director or jack of all trades. But this isn't the only reason to hire an editor or even the main reason. The main reason is objectivity! A director cutting their own film obviously wants to make the best film they can, the difficulty though is that a director's editing decisions are influenced by a number of factors which are not related to what actually makes for the best experience as far as an audience is concerned. When a director looks at a particular piece of footage, what they see is not just the footage but what they intended to achieve when they planned and shot that footage. Their decisions for the inclusion or duration of a particular shot is also influenced by the difficulty, time, effort and/or cost of getting that shot. A good editor is unencumbered by all this baggage, they see the footage for what it is, not for what it's intention might have been. Their only consideration when editing the footage is the quality of the storytelling; the pace, energy, storytelling efficiency and the audience's emotional responses, not how difficult or how much of an achievement a particular shot was to film. Good editing is a quite brutal endeavour as the majority or vast majority of the footage has to be dispassionately discarded, a pretty much impossible endeavour for a director who has invested so much in creating that footage.

RealJasonBourne said:
For sound is a music composer all I would need?
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By definition, no! Unless the only sound in your film is music and even then you'd still ideally want someone who kinows about sound rather than just about music composition. There are fundamental differences between audio post and music composition/production; fundamentally music is an abstract art form whereas audio post is based in reality. This difference requires a different approach, different tools, different methodologies and a different skill-set/knowledge than music composition/production. If anything you need to think the other way around; you can make a good film with just audio post people and no composer but not the other way around!!

G
 
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Besides all of the things that APE mentioned, consider the equipment needed. Each craft has specialized tools.

Audio post itself is divided up into specialties - dialog editors, ADR recordists & editors, Foley artists, Foley recordists & editors, sound effects field teams, sound effects editors, music editors and rerecording mixers. Each of those crafts require very specific equipment.

About the only things that composers and all of those audio post specialties have in common are really nice speakers and an isolated, treated room; and most indie composers don't even have the room!

At the highest levels a Foley team will have a small warehouse of Foley props. The Foley team will also have a fairly large specialized room with a projection system and Foley "pits" that have various surfaces.

folely-room-2.jpg


Dialog and ADR editors will use specialized software, as will sound effects editors. The sound effects field team will have a lot of field recording gear, and much of it will not be part of the kit used by a production sound crew. And rerecording mixers have highly specialized rooms.

Rerecording_Stage.jpg


How many composers will have all that?


Now, I may be "only" an audio post generalist, but I have software that specifically applies to dialog editing and ADR. I have a separate room to record ADR, Foley and sound effects. I have a basic field recording kit and a decent mic collection. I have a large wall, a closet and a piece of my garage dedicated to Foley props (and I'm starting to run out of storage space.). I may not have Foley pits, but I have cobbled together what I need to cover a wide variety of surfaces. I have a large collection of commercial sound effects libraries and a constantly growing personal sound effects library. (A composer will collect musical instrument libraries, not sound effects libraries.) My niche is the low/no/mini/micro budget filmmaker, and I am equipped and experienced to handle that specific clientele.

And, not to denigrate composers, but their focus is and they will put the majority of their efforts into the score, not the audio post.
 
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RealJasonBourne said:
- Is hiring an editor really necessary? I've edited a ton of videos (not professional short films or anything), what do they do specifically other than gathering the clips and cutting them together?

- For sound is a music composer all I would need? Would they be able to do all the audio adjustments or is there another audio person that should do that, is it necessary?

- A professional DOP told me that I should hire a guy to do the color correcting because it's very important to have someone with a ton of experience in it to give you a nice professional look.
Click to expand...
- An editor is necessary. Hiring an editor is not necessary.

- If you find a composer who is also an audio engineer then they can
compose the music and do all the audio adjustments. Those are two,
very different jobs. And not all composers are good audio mixers.

- That DP gave you excellent advice.

RJB; you can do anything you want when making a movie. You can
hire anyone you want and you can not hire anyone you don't want.
It isn't necessary to hire a DP. It isn't necessary to hire a first AD. It
isn't necessary to hire a makeup artist. It isn't necessary to hire a
sound mixer. It isn't necessary to hire a composer. You can do all
those things yourself.

The reason there are editors is because they bring an important,
creative, aspect to a movie. Someday you will see that different editors
will gather the clips and cut them together differently.

As you grow as a filmmaker you will find that each person on a crew brings
important, essential, creative, skilled aspects to the project.
 
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sfoster said:
I think it's a huge learning experience to edit your own projects
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I agree with this, especially for your early projects. This forces you to see what you do and don't have. If you didn't shoot enough coverage you'll see this first hand and it will teach you an important lesson for your next film. Later on, especially for a feature, you can hire and editor and let them bring your project to life with their expertise and a fresh set of eyes. Although, some directors in the studio system still cut their own work-- Kevin Smith for one. I know there are others.
 
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sfoster said:
I think it's a huge learning experience to edit your own projects
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I agree!

It's a huge learning experience for a director to shoot their own projects.

It's a huge learning experience for a director to record audio on their
own projects.

And at some point it's a huge learning experience to work with others.
 
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And speaking from team music, I agree with everything Alcove and APE have said! I've done just enough audio post/foley to know that I'm not very good at it! Crazy resepect for you guys that are!
 
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Thanks for the replies.

I'm looking for a music composer right now. I have like 10 replies but I'm having a hard time choosing someone.

When it comes to them composing your music how do you know this person will be able to have a creative vision for your piece and will get the job done properly?

There are guys with a ton of experience in short films and others but I don't know how to judge whether they will be able to do my genre (kids horror/comedy). I haven't talked to any of them except for a young guy who replied to my ad first

he redid the audio to this diablo 3 trailer, he said everything is done from scratch including the dialogue:

http://vimeo.com/81843926

if he was able to create this then do you think he should be able to do what I want with references to TV shows?
 
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Speaking from my personal experience on the producing side, once you've determined that the person is technically competent (in your case, that they know music composition), the main thing is to be as sure as possible that you're on the same page and that they will listen to what you want. For that, in an in-person meeting is best but not always possible. After that, skype, phone, email, text....But eventually you just have to leap and make a choice.
 
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mlesemann said:
Speaking from my personal experience on the producing side, once you've determined that the person is technically competent (in your case, that they know music composition), the main thing is to be as sure as possible that you're on the same page and that they will listen to what you want. For that, in an in-person meeting is best but not always possible. After that, skype, phone, email, text....But eventually you just have to leap and make a choice.
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Ok sounds good, thanks! :yes:
 
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On the people side of hiring anyone for a production, make sure they are team players who work well with others. There are lots of divas and BS artists in the business. Some divas can work with others. It depends on their degree of being self-absorbed.

You want a good chemistry with everyone you bring on that everyone can work with everyone.

I've had to fire some crew people who are just too self-absorbed to work with me and my crew. I found better people on my next go-round. A friend in Texas went to the extreme of firing his whole crew and replacing them because the chemistry between everyone was bad and that was slowing down his production and causing conflicts on set. Since on the set friction happens even on Hollywood sets, putting together a good team is an ongoing experience.

I met the production designer of "Vampire Wars," which Sylvester Stallone was going to be an executive producer on. There was so much fighting with Stallone and his producer partners, the production collapsed before it got through preproduction.

Ask for a demo reel besides a reesume. This is a business where people have to show you what they can do. Don't believe them with what they tell you. See things for yourself.

It's always good to see as many studio productions as you can of what you are aspiring to do as well as small Indie films to see the difference in budget, equipment, talent experience, and crew experience to know what you can realistically can do.

Know your limits. When you bring on people in post, principle photography, and preproduction, make sure they can bring something that will make your production better than you doing it alone.

With music, I've see some newbies use looped royalty free music clips who were too green to know a music composer can do for a film. Music scored properly for a film can add a whole new mood to their film. Once they see examples of what a music composer can do, they give up on their free looped music clips. That's just one example.
 
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When it comes to them composing your music how do you know this person will be able to have a creative vision for your piece and will get the job done properly?
Click to expand...

The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior.

Do both: Check out examples of previous work and check references. Contact the directors and producers who they collaborated with.
 
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I think it's a huge learning experience to edit your own projects
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I agree with this, especially for your early projects. This forces you to see what you do and don't have. If you didn't shoot enough coverage you'll see this first hand and it will teach you an important lesson for your next film.
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Not saying I'm right here, though I disagree with this.

Unless you have editing experience (then this doesn't apply) when you're relatively novice editor, you really don't know what's missing, what you need to put together a great story etc.

If you are inexperienced and cut the film and it comes out poorly, it may be because of bad directing, poor coverage, bad story, poor performance or it could come from inexperienced editing. Having an experienced editor removes one variables from the equation. On top of that they're more than likely to find fixes for problems less experienced editors won't be able to achieve. Also being able to sit in on an experienced editor is valuable for any director/writer/DOP/editor/assistant editor/producer/UPM/1st AD/Producion Designer and so on.
 
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This guy sent me an email, he's not local (Would it be better to work with someone local?)

He seems like he's professional and should be able to create a good score.

Could someone listen to his orchestral demo reel and tell me if he should "probably" be able to do what I want?
 
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