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Ironically, zero budget Needs Money!

FormerDominator

FormerDominator

My name is Michael Joseph, and I am currently working on my first "public" short film project, "zero budget. a movie about two dudes making a movie". After attempting to film the movie over last summer, a combination of poor planning and... well, really just very poor planning caused me to fail miserably. After looking back over the little footage I got, I realized something very important: If I wanted the general public to take this seriously, I needed money. So I got myself a Kickstarter account, and so far have a grand total of... $50. I need about $6,500. I figure this would be a good place to promote the movie's Kickstarter page, and if you like where I'm coming from, if you, how you say, feel me, and have a few bucks to spare, please consider backing the film! It would really mean a lot to me:
zero budget. a movie about two dudes making a movie.
 
Welcome to indietalk, Mike.

When I was your age I made a short film (on film) for
$900 - adjusted for inflation $1,700. I'm wondering what
you will use the $6,500 for? I have made full length
features for $6,500.

And I do see the irony, making a movie about making a zero
budget movie and you need a LOT of money. I'd love to see
a rough breakdown of how you will spend the $6,500.
 
Well, the camera I was looking at costs about $4000, although I do admit it might be a smarter idea to get a cheaper one. The rest of the money would be spend on DVDs of the film (50 of them-which probably won't be enough-cost $375 with professional design) and t-shirts-you know, merchandise.

The camera is a Sony 3CMOS which records in full HD on mini-DV tapes.
 
Or rent.

I don't think it's totally fair asking people to invest in your film on Kickstarter so that you can buy a top quality camera. I watched the video and I didn't see anything there about you justifying why you need a $4000 camera.

I think the project looks interesting but I'm not sure about the video. There have been long debates here about whether casual Kickstarter investors actually exist, but I doubt anyone watching that video is going to be too tempted to invest. Show something more about the film, perhaps shooting a little bit of teaser material and explain why you, as a filmmaker, are a sound investment. Perhaps some clips from previous shorts...

These are just my thoughts on how you can improve your chances of reaching your goal, as I say, it seems like a fun project.
 
So you have $2,500 in DVD's, t-shirts and merchandise and a $4,000
camera. As I mentioned, when I was 15 I made an entire short film
(on film) for less than your t-shirts and merchandise budget.

I know you don't ask for advice but I'm gonna offer it anyway.

I'll bet you could shoot this movie on a MUCH cheaper camera. I
know you don't WANT to and if you can get others to buy you a
camera, I can see how attractive that is. But if what you want to
do is make a movie, you will overcome your equipment limitations
and make a movie.

While having t-shirts and merchandise is fun, it's not really
needed. Many, many short films are made without $2,125 worth of t-
shirts and merchandise. I will admit that I'm impressed that you
have budgeted for professionally made DVD's.

What did you shoot the first version with?

You clearly didn’t do any lighting. A $4,000 camera will still
look flat.

It sounds like you used the on camera mic. Without a mic on a boom
your audio won’t be any better using a $4,000 camera.

You didn’t shoot much coverage leaving you limited choices in
editing.

I agree with you - it looks like poor planning and not the lack of
a top of the line camera. Learning how to light (not just get an
exposed image) and getting more coverage won’t cost you much
money. Buying an inexpensive shotgun mic and boom pole will make a
huge difference.

I bet that using the camera you have right now, buying $100 worth
of lights and a $300 shotgun mic and boom will get you far better
results than a $4,000 camera and $2,500 in DVD's, t-shirts and
merchandise.

I’ve bookmarked your Kickstarted page and I wish you luck. I like
the premise and thought the girl in the clip was really funny. But
I will say that there is no way I would give you any money to buy
a $4,000 camera to make a movie you could make with a $500 camera,
$100 worth of lights and a $300 mic.

I hope others don’t feel the way I do and you reach your goal.
 
Yeah, it's hard to back you when it doesn't sound like you have a solid plan.

Spend some time on the forums here, great advice all around for doing what you're trying to do. Most everyone here will agree that a $4000 camera is useless without any lighting or audio equipment.

Practice makes perfect too, a good operator can get decent footage out of almost anything.

It's a cool idea though, good luck with it!
 
Wow, haven't been on here since my first visit. Read over everyone's comments... thanks for smacking some sense into me. The main reason I went with the expensive camera was because I had used that particular model before, and so I was comfortable with that. However, I'm sure I could figure out how to use one that's 1/4 the price.
As far as the sound goes, I did use the on-camera mic. There's a small problem with using the camera I have now: It's a $200, 5-megapixel (equal in quality to the iPhone's camera) "Webbie HD", which I think has since been replaced with the "Bloggie HD". It's a cheap camera that's aimed at super-casual bloggers and YouTubers. There's no external mic ports or anything like that, so I'd definitely need something nicer at the very least in order to accommodate a boom mic (thanks for mentioning that, by the way... didn't occur to me). And as far as lighting goes, I definitely need to do some location scouting and see what I have lying around to help with that. (Wait... was that a bad thing to say?)
So with all this in mind, I think I'll read over everyone's advice again, shop around (maybe even eBay or something), save up some of my own damn money, and see where to go from there. Thanks again!
 
Oh yes, and I forgot to mention about the ridiculous merchandise budget... I'll admit I gave myself about $1300 in headroom just in case things turned out more expensive than I thought, or if I needed more than I anticipated.
 
FormerDominator said:
Oh yes, and I forgot to mention about the ridiculous merchandise budget... I'll admit I gave myself about $1300 in headroom just in case things turned out more expensive than I thought, or if I needed more than I anticipated.
Click to expand...

I don't mean to be impertinent, but you're talking about merchandising on a short film that you just realized you should use a boom mic and lighting on... merchandising and pro quality dvds may not be the stage at which you currently find yourself. You can buy a 25 pack of blanks for $15 at some stores, and a sharpie has done me right so far for labelling. Work on the product before the packaging.
 
Heh. Yeah. I only needed the merchandising budget really because they were rewards on Kickstarter, which evidently is not quite working out at this point. (Yeah, that budgeting method is kind of... off as well.) I think I'm going to become a hell of a lot more... thrifty now. I've realized this whole thing was not NEARLY as thought-out as I thought it was, and I didn't think it was very thought-out at all. Thanks again for everyone's harsh words-I think this is going to turn out a lot better because of it!
 
What I still don't understand is the obsession indie filmmakers have with owning everything. Half of what they buy is outdated within a year.

To some degree I understand the DIY culture of doing your own shooting, lighting, sound, editing/post, etc., but too many take on so much that corners are cut and important things start falling through the cracks. What started out as a solid project turns into just another third class piece of junk.

There are dozens of small "production companies" that are nothing more than loose associations of friends with equipment who would be more than happy to rent their gear out at minimal rates, and may even be a source of semi-experienced "crew". There are lots of established production and rental companies that would be willing to cut a deal on rental gear in the current tough economy. And not everyone wants to be a director; an up-and coming DP, production sound mixer, etc. with their own gear could be just what you are looking for.

Preproduction is your friend - preproduction helps you identify weaknesses with your script, preproduction helps you identify problems before they happen, preproduction has a huge impact on your budget, preproduction gets your cast and crew on the same page. Doing a basic preproduction is almost like writing a business plan for success; you'll have a much easier time obtaining funding. If you know approximately how many days you will be shooting, where you will be shooting, how much equipment rentals for the shoot will cost and dozens of other details you will be taken seriously by those who have money to invest. And don't forget to budget for both audio & visual post and festivals/promotion/marketing. One producer with whom I work even budgets for the various parties and cast & crew screenings. Always keep in mind that, although you are an artist, it is still the entertainment industry, and those who invest want to feel that there will be at least a chance to recoup their investment and perhaps make a modest profit - or at least some substantial bragging rights.
 
FormerDominator said:
Heh. Yeah. I only needed the merchandising budget really because they were rewards on Kickstarter, which evidently is not quite working out at this point. (Yeah, that budgeting method is kind of... off as well.) I think I'm going to become a hell of a lot more... thrifty now. I've realized this whole thing was not NEARLY as thought-out as I thought it was, and I didn't think it was very thought-out at all. Thanks again for everyone's harsh words-I think this is going to turn out a lot better because of it!
Click to expand...

I'm glad you came back. And it's pretty cool that you learned a
little something - so many people come here asking for donations,
get advice and then get mad and go away.

I was one (of maybe many) who thought if I donated money,
much of my donation would go to t-shirts and not the movie.

I hope you hang around here and keep us updated with the (now
cheaper) project.
 
Alcove Audio said:
What I still don't understand is the obsession indie filmmakers have with owning everything. Half of what they buy is outdated within a year.
Click to expand...

All of my cast and crew thus far has donated their time to me (8 years at this point)... I own my equipment so we can shoot on their schedules rather than having to arrange everything to work out with our currently non-existent budgets and rentals. This also allows us to shoot at any time rather than being beholden to the availability of the rental places' cameras.

Ownership allows me to rent myself out as an owner/operator as well... it's been growing slowly over the past 2-3 years (still in SD, BTW - as most everyone still releases in SD). As someone who is learning and teaching this craft, having access to my own equipment also allows me to have folks over to do nothing other than shoot random footage and learn the camera / new techniques. Having our own camera, lights, dolly, crane, microphone... means we can have a concept for a sketch, segment or a show and can shoot immediately if we so desire.

The past has shown us that we often end up on set without necessary equipment when we beg/ borrow/ steal. I now have 3 cases (camera, audio, lights) that go with me on every shoot - this makes it something that we don't have to think about. It's very freeing knowing that if I see something inspiring, I can hop out of the car and setup my tripod and camera, or my microphone and deck and record cool sounds for future foley work... personally, I wouldn't have it any other way.
 
directorik said:
So you have $2,500 in DVD's, t-shirts and merchandise and a $4,000
camera. As I mentioned, when I was 15 I made an entire short film
(on film) for less than your t-shirts and merchandise budget.

I know you don't ask for advice but I'm gonna offer it anyway.

I'll bet you could shoot this movie on a MUCH cheaper camera. I
know you don't WANT to and if you can get others to buy you a
camera, I can see how attractive that is. But if what you want to
do is make a movie, you will overcome your equipment limitations
and make a movie.

While having t-shirts and merchandise is fun, it's not really
needed. Many, many short films are made without $2,125 worth of t-
shirts and merchandise. I will admit that I'm impressed that you
have budgeted for professionally made DVD's.

What did you shoot the first version with?

You clearly didn’t do any lighting. A $4,000 camera will still
look flat.

It sounds like you used the on camera mic. Without a mic on a boom
your audio won’t be any better using a $4,000 camera.

You didn’t shoot much coverage leaving you limited choices in
editing.

I agree with you - it looks like poor planning and not the lack of
a top of the line camera. Learning how to light (not just get an
exposed image) and getting more coverage won’t cost you much
money. Buying an inexpensive shotgun mic and boom pole will make a
huge difference.

I bet that using the camera you have right now, buying $100 worth
of lights and a $300 shotgun mic and boom will get you far better
results than a $4,000 camera and $2,500 in DVD's, t-shirts and
merchandise.

I’ve bookmarked your Kickstarted page and I wish you luck. I like
the premise and thought the girl in the clip was really funny. But
I will say that there is no way I would give you any money to buy
a $4,000 camera to make a movie you could make with a $500 camera,
$100 worth of lights and a $300 mic.

I hope others don’t feel the way I do and you reach your goal.
Click to expand...



If i am not wrong what i have learned from the GURUS here is that an expensive CAM with no lights and mic is worse then a cheap camera with Lights and mic. Lighting really helps a lot to enhance the quality of the picture we see !
More over as far i see the situation of the US economy i dont think people will invest so much for a short movie. And any one who is into indie film making will prefer to make his own movie instead of investing a big amount in any other;s project.

In any case best of luck
 
I'm still trying to think of ways to raise my own money, but I figured I had nothing to lose except time (which I don't have much to do with anyway) in trying Kickstarter again with a (MUCH) smaller goal. Any critiques this time around?
zero budget.
 
Well yes, of course, but I'm only 15 and it seems like all of the "big" companies (i.e. Dunkin' Donuts) won't hire anyone under 16, and none of the local businesses have any openings as far as I can tell. But I'm definitely going to look into that.
 
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