Interns, Unpaid by a Studio, File Suit

drc said:
Exactly. They entered into a very clear agreement, we do what you'll say for free, so we can say we have actual experience. After the film becomes a box-office hit, they file a suit for compensation. This is going back on a very clear agreement that they knowingly entered into.
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Just because they agreed to an agreement doesn't necessarily mean anything. Lawsuits are filed constantly because agreements are deemed to be inherently unfair, and such lawsuits are often won.

When I was an intern in college, one of my summer internships paid $700/week. I thought I was rich. And they weren't training me how to make coffee. They were training me to see if they could hire me when I got out of college. That's what an internship is supposed to be for, for training. Once I got a real job, I gladly made coffee.

Now, many US corporations just want free labor. I don't know what the hell is going on in the US, but people better start realizing that if this goes on, the US workforce will have no leverage and turn into a third world country workforce.

If they don't pay interns, then they won't pay other professionals. They can get more interns to do Audio work, video work, effects work, for free. And then where will the rest of us be? Unfortunately it's already happening. You just need to look at how many people offer "opportunities" to add to your reel on craigslist, like it's a privilege.

We need to back these guys up. They're taking one for the team. I hope they win. I hope future interns get paid. Everybody needs to eat, and be able to buy camera equipment, not to mention the expensive audio stuff Alcove lists once in a while.

Best,
Aveek
 
With all due respect, '24' is not a kid...42?...not even close. As I opined in my first post, the 42 year old guy's experience seems to be related to his degree: business/accounting. The 24 year old is more problematic because we really do not know what his day consisted of. I worked a two year *apprenticeship* where I paid to have access to my mentor. When I was short of my monthly dues, she would let me work on her projects for barter. Yes, these jobs were the bottom of the barrel but they were related to this vocation, and I didn't mind performing these. I can honestly say that I have probably won some awards/fellowships because of either my affiliation with her, or her reference. So, as noted earlier, it is what you make it to be.

I think the biggest problem is the terms of agreement between the intern, the company, and the school...what work would, contractually, be performed in exchange for class credit.


trueindie said:
Now, many US corporations just want free labor. I don't know what the hell is going on in the US, but people better start realizing that if this goes on, the US workforce will have no leverage and turn into a third world country workforce.

If they don't pay interns, then they won't pay other professionals. They can get more interns to do Audio work, video work, effects work, for free. And then where will the rest of us be? Unfortunately it's already happening. You just need to look at how many people offer "opportunities" to add to your reel on craigslist, like it's a privilege.
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It's not quite that simple. You do have people more than willing to work for free, which, ultimately, undercuts and devalues this *labor*.
 
bird said:
It's not quite that simple. You do have people more than willing to work for free, which, ultimately, undercuts and devalues this *labor*.
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It doesn't matter that people are willing to do it. It still violates this country's minimum wage laws. See my link above for more info.
 
SinEater said:
It doesn't matter that people are willing to do it. It still violates this country's minimum wage laws. See my link above for more info.
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I wasn't responding in context to minimum wage law, I was responding to Trueindie's commiseration on what's wrong with US capitalism. Ultimately, capitalism is driven by the consumer. If we, as consumers, don't want US companies exporting contracts to cheap, or even *free* workers, then don't buy their products...simple boycots do work.
 
bird said:
I wasn't responding in context to minimum wage law, I was responding to Trueindie's commiseration on what's wrong with US capitalism. Ultimately, capitalism is driven by the consumer. If we, as consumers, don't want US companies exporting contracts to cheap, or even *free* workers, then don't buy their products...simple boycots do work.
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The US is NOT a capitalist society. It is 'chained' capitalism, that operates within a set of laws that the government decides is fair. That's why the US has monopoly laws. That's why it has minimum wage laws.

If everything could be run by boycotts, then why do you need a minimum wage law? Just don't buy goods of companies that employ people below minimum wage. You have a government for a reason. To regulate fairness into the system. To look out for these "interns."

I'm from a third world country. And the treatment of these "interns" sounds like "exploitation" to me like it exists in third world countries. In a US court of law, these two "interns" are going to win, hands down, whether you and I like it or not. And its all going to be for the better.
 
trueindie said:
The US is NOT a capitalist society. It is 'chained' capitalism, that operates within a set of laws that the government decides is fair. That's why the US has monopoly laws. That's why it has minimum wage laws.
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I have no idea what you mean by 'chained capitalism'. We The People are the government and we vote, using the best tangible process at this point in history, to vote in representatives who have sworn to act in our best interests. If they do not, they are subject to recall and various other proactive ways to impeach. The point of contention with this suit is, were these subjects employees or interns? I don't have all the facts and neither do you, so we cannot make any sort of definitive judgement about what will happen in this lawsuit....btw, which is another good thing about our country's judicial system: our citizens are entitled to due process.

If everything could be run by boycotts, then why do you need a minimum wage law?
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Who said everything could be run by boycott? I said We the People have the power. We are consumers as well as producers, but our strength lies in boycott of product AS consumers. It doesn't lie in refusing to *produce* for a company, because as you well know a company will simply find someone else to perform the job.


Just don't buy goods of companies that employ people below minimum wage.
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Well, of course, that would send a huge message, too.

You have a government for a reason. To regulate fairness into the system. To look out for these "interns."
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I think our government has bigger problems to worry about.

I'm from a third world country. And the treatment of these "interns" sounds like "exploitation" to me like it exists in third world countries.
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I respect your opinion (on topic) because you are a citizen of a third world country, but I think it's ridiculous to compare an intern getting coffee to the exploitation of labor in third world countries. But, I've not witnessed these countries' conditions, you have....so *it's* not as bad as child slave trade, then?
In a US court of law, these two "interns" are going to win, hands down, whether you and I like it or not. And its all going to be for the better.
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As I've said, we don't know all the facts so there's no way to make such a determination, and it doesn't affect my likes or dislikes.

I think we need to get back on topic before we both receive infractions for discussing US politics.
 
trueindie said:
The US is NOT a capitalist society. It is 'chained' capitalism, that operates within a set of laws that the government decides is fair. That's why the US has monopoly laws. That's why it has minimum wage laws.

If everything could be run by boycotts, then why do you need a minimum wage law? Just don't buy goods of companies that employ people below minimum wage. You have a government for a reason. To regulate fairness into the system. To look out for these "interns."

I'm from a third world country. And the treatment of these "interns" sounds like "exploitation" to me like it exists in third world countries. In a US court of law, these two "interns" are going to win, hands down, whether you and I like it or not. And its all going to be for the better.
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Sure there are laws, but i say it's all supply and demand.

In third world countries, there are minimum wage laws and what not too. But when there's less job than there is people. A lot of the people would be happy to not sign any agreements, and get paid less than minimum under the table. Call it exploitation if you must, but if companies were paying minimum wage, then those that was "exploited" would just have to starve, any possibily die.

In the film industry, there's so many of us trying to get in. There will be people who is willing to do anything just to say 2 sentence to the big guys. I'm not saying this is how it should be, just how it is. The article say "most interns are too scared to speak up". I say most know well that they aren't going to get paid and treated like junk, but they are there so they have the possibility of making connections. And even if they don't learn anything, having "Black Swan" on your CV, i think is worth it enough already.

These guys filing the law suit probably will win, but it doesn't make any difference to the industry as a whole. If people keep on filing law suits, the companies may not recruit interns anymore, but instead recruit volunteers, just to make it clear that they won't be getting paid.
 
bird said:
I wasn't responding in context to minimum wage law, I was responding to Trueindie's commiseration on what's wrong with US capitalism. Ultimately, capitalism is driven by the consumer. If we, as consumers, don't want US companies exporting contracts to cheap, or even *free* workers, then don't buy their products...simple boycots do work.
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It's easy to say simple boycots will work, but in truth, how many people honestly cares? For example, It made headline how the company Apple collaborates with to make all their products had several people suiciding. There were "outrage" about how badly the employees were treated. But all that really did was publicity for Apple. And because people conceive iPad to be a great device, and also the cheapest out there, it still takes around 95% of the market share 2 years after it first appeared on the market (i'm not sure about my numbers, but my point stands valid).

On one hand, we cry for things to get cheaper, cheaper, cheaper. On another, we criticize 3rd world country for exploitation of children, of pollution. All the while we don't even realize we are the source of those exploitation, of pollution. Can you imagine how much things would cost if say China and India, the two biggest producing countries of the world, all of a sudden forced all it's companies to pay minimum wage to all it's workers, and to raise environmental requirements to the highest standards? (China actually already has higher environmental requirements than US for their cars production.) It means the cost of everything will go through the roof!!!

If i hold in front of you two Canon 5D. One of them costing 5 times the other, which one would you buy? If i were to tell you, the one that cost more is made without any form of exploytation, infact, all the employees involved in making it has very comfortable working environment, with air con, and ground heating. working 6 hours a day, and 3 week annual leave, now, which one would you buy? (Edit: You'd still probably buy the cheaper one)

Once again, i'm not saying this is not how it should be, it's not good, but this is just the way things are.
 
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Synia said:
It's easy to say simple boycots will work, but in truth, how many people honestly cares?
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And THIS is the crux of many problems, and one of which I cannot answer. Each person must make their own decision about which battles to fight. Frankly, I wouldn't fight the one this thread highlights for the simple reason you noted in your second to last post...

if people keep on filing law suits, the companies may not recruit interns anymore, but instead recruit volunteers, just to make it clear that they won't be getting paid.
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IMO, the connections would be the payoff, as you've posted, and as I had noted in a personal anecdote in my other response. But, as said, everyone picks their battles.
 
True Indie:

You should be careful how you throw around the word "exploitation" and compare U.S. internships to third world exploitation.

This UNICEF article discusses exploitation in the same realms of sexual abuse, human trafficking and violent attacks.

http://www.unicefusa.org/work/protection/

We're talking about college grads working inside Hollywood film studios and universities, on a film by an academy award nominated director. If I could be involved, in any way, on a Woody Allen film, I would drop my financial work and school work and projects and go work for free. The picture you're painting of these interns and the work they do is so dramatic and off base.

It's often nice to think about a world where everyone gets paid exactly what they deserve and there's no greed and no profit and we all just make our films and our art and live lavish lifestyles. You need to take a hard look an how economies work, how any business runs and how many major directors and film makers started off as very happy unpaid interns.
 
This seems no longer about filmmaking. But I'll just put it to you this way:

Forget I said "chained capitalism." But nobody on earth has Capitalism. It is controlled capitalism. Capitalism, meaning anybody can do anything and it's all supply and demand, does not exist anywhere. Capitalism, tempered with government intervention, is what you have in the US. I'm not talking about politicians being recalled and what not. I'm just talking about the system of commerce.

I cannot price below market and drive out my competition.
I cannot get together with my competitors and set prices.
I cannot make people work for more than a certain number of hours.
I cannot ... etc. etc...

If it were all supply and demand then workers would not have any rights. But workers HAVE rights, in the US, and in Canada and in many other countries. That means it's not just supply and demand. That means that the government has decided, that workers have to be treated in a certain way, that just does not depend on supply and demand.

Yes, I don't know everything about this case. But I've had to go through a lot of legal documents for work, and have a pretty good understanding of how US law works, and who has what rights. From what I read in that article, these guys have a pretty good case. If you are a powerful corporation and you don't behave in a way that you should and are expected to, you can be sued, and it doesn't matter who signed what.

Okay, my mistake in linking third world exploitation to this exploitation, but my opinion of the US workplace and US corporation is changing. I have not worked in the US since 2006, but things seem dramatically different since I was there.

In this video below, these guys have no recourse, because they are foreign students. But the other Fox interns? yes, I think they can take somebody to court.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1DVgdSI3R0

Workers actually have a lot of rights in the US, regardless of what they sign. All you need is a good lawyer.
 
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