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Indoor with LOTS of windows

Hi all,
My location has windows everywhere I look or point the camera.
My gut says that I should just use outdoor temperature lights for all my indoor shots.

My Kit consists of:
Home Depot Halogen work light
Three of hood style clamp-ons.
Cymbal stands for everything. (Modified the work light to fit on the heavy duty cymbal stand)
Bounce Card (white foam board)
Silver Bounce thing (my silvery round spring loaded fold out window shade)
Extension cords
Some small towels (so the clamps can grip on the stands better)

Thats it!

My main questions:
Are the hallogens good for this? Or are they just the wrong temp?
I want to use CFL bulbs in the hoods (nice low temp and power draw) what bulbs do I buy? What temperature etc..

Cheap additions to my kit suggestions would be helpful.

Thanks
 
Good question. Regardless of how many windows there are, even if there is just one window and you aren't blocking it out, you should always try to match the color temp of the natural light in the room. Since you do have a lot of windows you definitely want to match that light and don't bother trying to block out the windows.

Let's start with your work light. This won't be good. The color temp on that light is about 3000K or so. You need to match to about 5600K. I wouldn't bother with this light at all.

Your now probably thinking: Well, what light should I use for the key light then? That's easy. Since you have so many windows, you should arrange your shot so that the Sun from the window is your key. This will take some pre-production and discussion with your DP about where you want your actors versus where the light is the best. Go to the location many times and study how the light comes in and looks best from.

CFLs. Great idea. I have seen a package or two at a hardware store that say "Daylight Temp" and color temp 6500K. Double check these when buying them and make sure to buy a lot. If they say Daylight Temp but only temp out at 3500 those may not work you need bluer. So look for 4500K to about 7000K. Nothing is ideal for your budget but these should get you close. During purchase make sure you get enough to replace all the practicals in your room your shooting in. Every lamp and fixture should be of the same color temp: as close to 5600K as you can get. Get more of those CFLs to put in your clamp lights and use those as fill.

Remember it isn't about adding light as much as it is controlling light. Get some big pieces of cardboard and paint them black. Use these to block out a window or just keep extra spill from getting on an actors face. Get some duvatyne or even black tarp to control how much light is coming into the room from any one area. Invest in some muslin cloth: enough to cover any one window in that room. This way if the light is coming in really harsh that day you can use this to soften the light, this will work if you are using the sun as the key and the quality is going to look awesome.

Well, that should get you started. Post if you got any more questions. Good luck.
 
Great suggestions from Brooksy!

I wouldn't necessarily discount your halogen fixture, though. Pick up a sheet of Full Blue gel and filter the output and you can probably use it as a background light. If your halogen is 500 watts, the gel will cut the light output to the equivalent of about 100watts, but since it's semi-directional it might come in handy. And gel is only 6 bucks a sheet or so.
 
2001 Productions does bring up a good point. If you can get a full CTB gel then definitely use it if the scene needs it. I don't know why I just assumed you didn't have that, and never in this business assume anything. It could get you into trouble later.
 
Another thing about Oregon (and particularly the wide spot in the road called Mist where I live) not a lot of light coming in those windows, so windows as key lights might not work out so well :)

That said, when I walk in to the store, do I just say "gimme a sheet of your cheapest full CTB gel?" If they ask me some follow up, Ill look like an idiot, but that's to be expected!

Thanks
 
Any sun coming in a window is going to be enough for a Key light. It is definitely going to be brighter then your work light, which seems to be the biggest light you have from the sound of it. it doesn't even need to be direct sunlight, it could be sunlight that is bounced in from outside. Again just some creative blocking should work well in your favor.
 
In our neck of Oregon it's most likely going to be cloud-cover. Direct sunlight anywhere is rare. :)

But that's a good thing, sort of. It means the light is going to be diffused by mother nature; no additional diffusion required. The downside is that the color temperature is even bluer than the 5500 degrees of direct sunlight. I usually white balance to the daylight, which makes my gelled incandescent fixtures read slightly warmer but I'm okay with that.
 
Thanks, I went out yesterday to shot and my cameras Exposure was maxed just to get anything, so I see some serious gloomy days here! But we can hope for better.

Got it on the gels. Ask for a couple of sheets of Rosco Full Blue. Driving all that way for 6$ seems a bit silly, what other gels should i pick up while there? I was planning on using parchment paper for diffusion, but maybe there's a gel for that? Assume I have $20 to blow at the light store.. (excludes the CFL bulbs, thats a separate expense that I can stick on the "household" budget, as Ill buy a bunch and if I need em at home... well there ya go)
 
Your cameras exposure was maxed out and that still barely shot anything?! That's a big problem with your camera then. What are you shooting with? You should be able to go outside on a rainy day and still only set your exposure to 4 with a 1/32 ND filter, even then you should get something. I would definitely double check what ND filter your on and then double check your exposure. Otherwise how are you going to shoot inside at all if you have to max out your exposure outside?
 
Ask for a couple of sheets of Rosco Full Blue. Driving all that way for 6$ seems a bit silly, what other gels should i pick up while there? I was planning on using parchment paper for diffusion, but maybe there's a gel for that?

You can probably get by with a single sheet of blue. They're large sheets, so you can probably cover 4 lights when you cut it apart. Yes, there are many diffusion grades to choose from, sold in sheets just like the gels, same price. They're a lot safer than parchment paper because they're designed to work with high-temperature fixtures. Look through the swatch book while you're there and choose a couple different ones.
 
Your cameras exposure was maxed out and that still barely shot anything?! That's a big problem with your camera then. What are you shooting with? You should be able to go outside on a rainy day and still only set your exposure to 4 with a 1/32 ND filter, even then you should get something. I would definitely double check what ND filter your on and then double check your exposure. Otherwise how are you going to shoot inside at all if you have to max out your exposure outside?

Im a noob, so please forgive stupidity and ignore that comment, it was somewhat hyperbole..

My camear is a SONY Handycam, DCR-TRV27 MiniDV.
Its all I got... to learn on.

Some of my first efforts came out VERY good to my eye, so I know it can do what I imagine. I need more time behind the eye piece.

Thanks
 
Are you shooting daytime? The color temperature issue being stated in every post above me isn't the only issue, you still need to make sure that you have enough light of any temp on your subject to get proper exposure:

if daytime shoot, light the subject to the point where you can see out the windows (equalize the light inside with the background outside, or light lower to blow out the windows)

If nighttime shoot, light the subject to get proper exposure and pick an area or two in the background to throw some light on to get it to show up in the background - these will be larger than work lights. 2k to 5k for wattages.
 
Indoor with lots of windows

The color temperature issue being stated in every post above me isn't the only issue, you still need to make sure that you have enough light of any temp on your subject to get proper exposure:

if daytime shoot, light the subject to the point where you can see out the windows (equalize the light inside with the background outside, or light lower to blow out the windows)


I agree with Knightly that color temperature is not the only problem you face. You also have a contrast problem. Without substantially boosting the light levels inside, when you expose for your talent, your exterior will blow out. If you expose for the exterior to hold detail, your talent will be underexposed and become a near silhouette.

If there were not so many windows you could cover the windows with a combination of 85/ND9 gel. The gel would both convert the exterior daylight from 5500K to 3200K and knock down the level outside by three stops, so that your tungsten lights would be effective. But, where a roll of 85/ND9 gel will set you back $140.00, it will be expensive to gel that many windows.

Without gelling the windows to 3200K, using your tungsten lights doesn’t make a lot of sense. Balancing tungsten to 5000K is not very efficient because full color temperature blue correction gel (Full CTB) cuts the output of the light by 70% in converting it to 5000K. A 1000W 3200K light becomes a 300W 5000K light when you put Full CTB on it. The output you get after correction is not nearly enough to address the contrast problem you have with the windows uncorrected.

While the right color temperature, daylight CFL bulbs won’t put out enough level either. If you can’t gel the windows you probably need at least a 4k HMI par to pick up the interior levels. For example, my company, ScreenLight & Grip, lit a segment of a special two-hour program for British Television’s Channel 5 that presented the same problem that you are facing.

piratefilmstrip1lg.jpg

Host June Sarpong interviewing a marine archaeologists

The show told the story of the Whydah - a pirate ship that sank off Cape Cod nearly 300 years ago. In a unique TV experiment, marine archaeologists on Cape Cod dove to the wreck to salvage pirate booty live on air. In addition to the dive on the wreck, the program also included specially shot dramatic recreations of the story of the Whydah’s notorious pirate captain Black Sam Bellamy. To link between the modern-day adventures of the marine archaeologists and those of Black Sam Bellamy, co-presenter June Sarpong hosted marine archaeologists and pirate historians from a makeshift studio under a tent situated on a bluff overlooking the dive site.

piratefilmstrip1.25lg.jpg

Host June Sarpong interviewing a marine archaeologists

Where they wanted the dive site to serve as a backdrop to the makeshift studio, the show's producers wanted the Salvage Ship to be seen clearly on the water in the shots of June and her guests. This requirement created a similar interior/exterior contrast problem to the one you are facing.

The task of balancing interior levels to exterior levels was further complicated by the fact that it was a clear sunny day. We rigged a couple of 4kw and 2.5kw HMI Pars into the frame of the tent in order to get them as close as possible to our subjects, but even then we didn’t have quite enough output to compete against the sun outside.

piratefilmstrip2.25lg.jpg

A 4k HMI Par was rigged overhead as a key for each subject

The final ingredient for success was a double net strung across the open backside of the tent. The net further reduced the contrast by bringing the exterior levels down and in line with the pumped-up interior. The trick in situations like this is to strike a delicate balance between the interior and exterior light levels so that the net disappears to the camera without the exterior becoming overexposed and losing important detail – the Salvage Ship out on the water in this case.

Another advantage to netting the background is that it takes the hard edge off of HD. It creates the illusion of a shallower depth of field or the selective focus we associate with film.

piratefilmstrip3lg.jpg

A double net was stretched across the open side of the tent facing out onto the water.

Where it took a 4k Par on each of the talent, plus a double net across the back, you can see that you are going to need a lot more light. The problem with using 4k par HMIs is usually powering them. If you know how, you can plug them into wall outlets that are available on most locations – but, I should leave that to a latter post.

Guy Holt, Gaffer, Boston 

 
I don't think I have it that bad! I have lots of windows, but not giant views like that and nowhere near that level of light. However, Im sure the concepts still apply, my challenge will be to "make do" the best I can with resource I have at my disposal.

I think I can frame them out of the back ground in almost all my shots on my little project. In none of the shots is it REQUIRED to see whats out the window, so I think that gives me options too.
 
I don't think I have it that bad! I have lots of windows, but not giant views like that and nowhere near that level of light. However, Im sure the concepts still apply, my challenge will be to "make do" the best I can with resource I have at my disposal.

It is all the same, whether a high end commercial or independent short, every job is about getting the most production value out of the resources at your disposal. What’s important is being able to recognize what those resources are. For instance, a lot of gaffers may rule out using a 4k HMI par as we did on the Bose still shoot pictured below because they think it requires either a tie-in or renting a generator - both of which can be an expensive proposition. They don’t recognize that common 240V wall receptacles, like the dryer outlet in this loft, can power HMIs as large as 4kw. How it is done depends on whether the 4k has a magnetic or electronic ballast, and whether the electronic ballast has Power Factor Correction (PFC) or not (Arri calls it ALF for Active Line Filter.)

Transformer-Distro_SamBosePS

Samples from still shoot for Bose where a 4k HMI par was used to fill talent against windows (Bob Packert Photography)

A multi-volt 4k electronic ballast with Power Factor Correction (PFC) will give you the most options. If you are not familiar with Power Factor Correction, a PFC circuit realigns voltage and current and induces a smoother power waveform at the distribution. As a result, the ballast uses power more efficiently with minimized return current and line noise. 4kw electronic ballasts with PFC (like the Power Gems (PG) 425CDP, the Power-to-Light (P2L) 425LVI, and Arri 2.5/4 EB w/ALF) typically have an operating range of 90–125 & 180-250 Volts. At 120V they will draw approximately 37 Amps. At 240V they will draw 18.5 Amps on each leg of a 240V single phase power supply.

These ballasts draw too much at 120V for a 20A wall outlet. But, fortunately there are a number of 240 volt outlets in a typical house, office, or industrial plant in this country that you can also use to power a 4k with PFC electronic ballast. The most common are air conditioner outlets, dryer outlets, range outlets, outlets for large copy machines in offices, and the outlets for motorized equipment in industrial plants. Many of these household and industrial 240V receptacles use a three wire system (no neutral) because they are designed to power single phase motors or heating elements that draw a perfectly balanced load and return no current because the single phase service legs are 180 degrees out of phase and cancel each other out. Where a 4kw HMI with PFC electronic ballast, operating at 240 Volts draws roughly 18.5 Amps on each leg of a single phase 240V circuit, its’ load is well within the capacity of these circuits. You will also be able to operate a non-PFC 4k electronic ballast off of most 240V receptacles like range plugs and dryer plugs because they draw 26 Amps per leg and these circuits are fused at minimally 30 Amps. Where most magnetic 4k ballasts operate at only 120V and draw 40 Amps this method is not an option with magnetic ballasts. Where 4kw ballasts are typically wired with a 120V 60Amp Bates Plug (Stage Pin), you will need a 120V Female Bates to 240V adapter. I keep an assortment of adapters because all these 240V receptacles use a different pin configuration.

Transformer-Distro_Sam2.jpg

4k & 1.2ks HMI Pars powered from 30A/240V dryer outlet through step-down transformer/distro for Bose still shoot.

The only way to power 120V 4kw HMI magnetic ballasts on wall receptacles is from 240V circuits through a 240v-to-120v step down transformer like the one my company, ScreenLight & Grip (SL&G), manufactures for the Honda EU6500is generators that we modify. Like it does with the enhanced 240V output of our Honda EU6500is Generator, a step down transformer can be used to convert the 240 volts supplied by these industrial and household 240V receptacles to 120 volts in a single circuit that is the sum of the two single phase legs of 30/50 amps each. In other words, out of a “30A/240v” or a “50A/240v” circuit our transformer makes a 60A/120v circuit that is capable of powering bigger 120V lights, like 4kw HMIs with magnetic ballasts (even Quartz 5ks, mini brutes (5850W) or Six Light Mole Par (6000W)).

There are benefits to be gained by powering even 4kw electronic ballasts (PFC or not) on 240V circuits through a 240v-to-120v step down transformer. For instance, you will be able to run additional large lights (like 1.2kws) on the same circuit if, rather than plugging the 4kw electronic ballast directly into the 240 receptacle (operating it at 240V) and monopolizing it, you plug it in through a transformer (operating it at 120 Volts), you will be left with 25 - 37 Amps to power additional lights on the same circuit. That’s a lot of additional power to waste by plugging the 4k directly into the 240V receptacle. And, since an electronic ballast “ramps up” gradually during the striking phase, you don’t have to leave head room as you would with a magnetic ballast. By operating the light through a transformer you can more fully utilize the capacity of the 240V circuit. For example, since the P2L 4/2.5 LVI ballast at 120V operates a 4k HMI luminary at 37 amps, you will still be able to power an additional 1.2kw HMIs (if operated by P2L 575/1200 ballast (11 Amps)), as well as a 800 Joker HMI (if operated by a P2L 800/1200 ballast (8 Amps)), off of the same circuit. That’s a lot of additional light to be gained by not plugging the 4k directly into the 240V receptacle.

A transformer will also greatly simplify your set electrics by automatically splitting the load of whatever you power through it. As long as you plug lights in through the transformer, you no longer have to carefully balance the load over the two 120V circuit/legs because the transformer does it for you automatically. If, like our 60a Full Power Transformer/Distro, the transformer is outfitted with a 60 Bates receptacle, you can use 60A GPC extension cables, 60-to-60 Splitters, and fused 60A GPC-to-Edison Breakouts (snack boxes) to run power around set - breaking out to 20A Edison outlets at convenient points (rather than one central point.) The best part about using a transformer with a 240V receptacle in this fashion is that no matter where in the distribution system you plug in, the transformer automatically balances the additional load, so that you don't have to. It is so simple that you don’t have to be an experienced electrician to distribute power on set. Use this link for more details about using step-down transformers to power larger lights on interior sets.

HD_PP_Demo_Transformer-Distro.jpg

A PFC 2.5 & 1.2 HMI Pars, PFC 800w Joker HMI, Kino Flo Flat Head 80, 2 ParaBeam 400s, and a ParaBeam 200 powered by a modified Honda EU6500is through a 60A Full Power Transformer/Distro

Everything I have said thus far is also true when it comes to operating HMIs off of portable gas generators with 240V outputs. Where before you could not operate more than a couple 1200W HMIs on portable generators because of their limited 120V power outlets, with a step-down tranformer you can operate bigger lights, or more small lights, on portable gas generaotors than has been possible before. And if the generator is one of our modified Honda EU6500is inverter generators, you will be able to run a continuous load of up to 7500W as long as your HMI and Kino ballasts are Power Factor Corrected. But, where I have covered this in another post in this forum I won’t go into more details here. For more details read my posts at http://www.indietalk.com/showthread.php?t=19895&page=2

- Guy Holt, Gaffer, Boston
 
Nejuicer, your expertise in the area of power generation and HMI's is uncontested. You are a master gaffer and I am but a dweeb with visions of making a little movie on my 10 year old SD handy cam.

I would like your thoughtful input on how to best utilize the resources I have, which are few:

My Kit consists of:
Home Depot Halogen work light
Three of hood style clamp-ons.
Cymbal stands for everything. (Modified the work light to fit on the heavy duty cymbal stand)
Bounce Card (white foam board)
Silver Bounce thing (my silvery round spring loaded fold out window shade)
Extension cords
Some small towels (so the clamps can grip on the stands better)
Blue gel
Diffusion gel
And other household items for a typical family of 7 living on a rural acreage!

I have $50! to spend to splurge on upgrades to his kit!
(thats doubling my budget by the way)

Thanks
 
Nejuicer, your expertise in the area of power generation and HMI's is uncontested. You are a master gaffer and I am but a dweeb with visions of making a little movie on my 10 year old SD handy cam.

I would like your thoughtful input on how to best utilize the resources I have, which are few:

My Kit consists of:
Home Depot Halogen work light
Three of hood style clamp-ons.
Cymbal stands for everything. (Modified the work light to fit on the heavy duty cymbal stand)
Bounce Card (white foam board)
Silver Bounce thing (my silvery round spring loaded fold out window shade)
Extension cords
Some small towels (so the clamps can grip on the stands better)
Blue gel
Diffusion gel
And other household items for a typical family of 7 living on a rural acreage!

I have $50! to spend to splurge on upgrades to his kit!
(thats doubling my budget by the way)

Thanks

As I said the trick is making the most of the resources you have. If you can't afford to gel the windows nor rent larger HMIs (and you can't on a $50 budget), then I would take what money you have and rent a dozen c-stands and buy 1x1 mirrors for them. Use the mirrors to bounce the sunlight inside where you can then redirect it as your light sources. There was a situation at the Maine Film Workshops when the gaffer blew the transformer on the utility pole before the instructor Rob Draper (Mystic Pizza) arrived on set for the class. When he saw what had happened, rather than cancel the glass, he had the class empty the house of pots, pans, cookie sheets, aluminum foil, and wall mirrors. Using the mirrors to bounce the sun inside, they then lit the whole scene redirecting the sunlight using pots, pans, and cookie sheets. The sunlight coming off the mirrors is the right color temp and a lot more powerful than what you will get out of a daylight CFL. But you will need some good stands (like c-stands) to hold stuff in place.

- Guy Holt, Gaffer, Boston
 
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