INCREDIBLY conflicted about film school (please help?)

[Liv]

I'm coming to a big milestone in my life. Thanks to anyone who takes the time to read about my situation

I'm a 17 year old female approaching the end of my junior year. Most of my classmates are applying for college, and I haven't even started. This is for two reasons: one, I want to be a filmmaker/screenwriter, and two, I've lately picked up a very negative and cynical attitude towards school in general due to a poisonous school environment (extremely competitive, narcissistic, AP obsessed kids, and I stick out like a sore thumb). I am determined to avoid debt like the plague, because I know it kills dreams. I have a twin sister, and we both have the same career aspirations. We want to break into the industry together, and I currently don't see a future (at least in the next five years) where we are separated. She's my second half. I have major anxiety issues that make being apart from her an extremely distressing experience

Here's where things get tricky. My sister, who has been treated for depression and has motivational issues, is doubting the no-college route. We've been clashing a lot lately, and my solid opinions have even been shaken. I'll give you a short summary on both sides

MY SISTER
My sister wants to go to film school to escape a negative home environment (my father is a procrastinator who can't get anything done; we have no blinds, a junk car, and a broken TV stand that have gone unfixed for three years, because he has too many emotional issues to do anything about it). She thinks college would fix her motivational issues, and that she isn't "strong enough" to go the total indie route. She doesn't think she has the social skills to get out there and make her career happen through sheer grit. She's also convinced that film school is the only place you can meet other filmmakers, get access to equipment, and make connections

ME
I want to avoid debt by any means necessary. I think filmmaking is a career that requires risk, and risks can't be taken if you have debt hanging over you. I don't want to bankrupt my parents, and if I'm really not good enough or not cut out to be a filmmaker/screenwriter, I'd like to find out NOW rather than after going through four long years of film school. I think all forms of higher education are too expensive nowadays, and I just don't think the experience is worth it. It all seems like a propaganda ridden, money siphoning machine. I know how bleak job prospects are (especially for filmmakers)

I just don't know what to do. I haven't told my parents about any of this. I've been rigorously screenwriting for three years, reading $200 worth of books, and they have no idea. I feel so much stress, pressure, and negativity every day, so much so that it feels like I'm drowning and there's no point in even trying. It feels like failure is inevitable. Life just seems so hard right now, I sometimes wonder if it's worth it. The ONLY circumstance in which I would ever consider going to film school is if I could graduate with less than $5,000 worth of debt; although, a small part of me feels like any school that cheap just isn't good quality (I don't need/want state of the art, but I don't want complete crap either. I could get that quality education for free on my own)

So, I guess what I'm asking is this. Do you agree with my sisters point of view, or mine? Should I go to film school? Do you think there's any point in going to film school?. Basically, any advice on what I should do with my situation would be immensely helpful

Thanks so much for any input I'm just completely lost here

 

[Liv]

Forget "film school," but go to School. Don't declare a major right away, you'll have time to pick one and probably won't be forced to for your entire freshman year, unless things have change dramatically. Study things that interest you in addition to film making, the broader perspective will serve you more as a story-teller. Hell, study literature or English, or Psychology (since you are interested in screenwriting) There will still be elective and extra-curricular ways for you to work on your writing and other film making crafts and you will be vastly more likely to find gainful employment in any industry, including writing/directing films. The study would not distract from your goal, but make it more possible to achieve. If, during this time, you or your sister decide that you still want to go to film school, apply for graduate programs. Sure the big name ones are very difficult to get into, but they are not the only game around either. RISD, Columbia, the obligatory SoCal triad of UC's, and so on, but at the graduate level, not undergrad.

Noting your location, if cost is an issue the California Junior College system has an outstanding track record of transferring students to 4 year institutions with equally outstanding graduation rates. Or it had, it has been many years since I've paid attention to such things.

hmmm. I think the transfer agreement still applies in California. That definitely sounds like a good idea; though I'm not sure about devoting 6 years of my life to college. I was thinking I'd start my career out of high school, rather than adding on another academic delay

FWIW: Leaving college my freshman year when I was 18 is one of my big regrets in life. Going back to college in your mid-late 20s just isn't the same experience. It's still valuable (otherwise I would not have done it), but it's not the same - especially the relationships built with classmates, since the majority are many years younger. I'm speaking as a Film major (and JC transfer, btw). Personally, I don't regret it at all because it was a theory/critical studies/independent production program rather than an "on-set employee factory" and I got the opportunity to shoot (at my own expense) thousands of feet of 16mm film.

That's really insightful. I never considered the whole "it won't be as fun when you're 25" thing. The film stock is also an excellent point, as I'd love to learn both digital and traditional filmmaking. But tell me this. Do only the expensive, four year University's have film stock for students to practice with? Or would a community college have these things too

Thank you!

 

[Liv]

Liv,
I fear, however, that you've pinned yourself into a corner with the why's and why not's, and hence your conundrum. Going into filmmaking is indeed a risk, but you are young enough to absorb the costs, even if you find something you like better along the way, and it's risking big that can bring big rewards. It's a tough business with many, many people trying to make a living...

Wishing you the best of luck, and remember, if you find something better along the way, it... is... okay. Your thoughtfulness is inspiring, but beware of getting "stuck" between all the issues (I've been there).

I do realize that I tend to overthink things. A part of me can't help it though. With so many people hitting dead ends with indie filmmaking, I'm left wondering if it's because they didn't properly educate themselves. And then, as you said, I'm back into the corner of self doubt and endlessly mulling things over in my mind

 

[Liv]

For your sisters (for a lack of a better word) issues, college isn't necessarily going to fix them. Unmotivated people often stay unmotivated people when they go to college. She has to break out of that by her own choice and actions. College isn't going to kick her ass, she has to do it herself. On top of that, what you get out of film school has more to do with what you put in than the school itself.

Needing film school to gain access to filmmakers/equipment/connections is complete BULLSH*T. Jump on to Facebook, get involved with actor groups, meet up with local filmmakers, develop talent, borrow people's gear and so on. There are so many people out there with gear that you can beg, borrow or steal (hell, they may even come with the gear to help).

So how would you suggest I help her? I can't stand the thought of 'leaving her behind' and creating a career for myself on my own. I'm not going to lie that it's an idea I've toyed with. It would certainly be infinitely easier and less stressful. But the guilt of abandoning her and the potential competitive mindset it could create is something I'm not sure I could deal with

This is something that most people don't consider, but getting a trade is an alternative. At least in my country, there is a huge demand for those who have a trade. Instead of costing you, it puts money in your pocket. It's also good money once you're done. If you pick the right trade, you can try to gravitate towards the jobs that put you in the film business. It's probably going to be a little harder being female, but may be worth considering as an option.

I've actually taken this into consideration. I'm not a technologically inclined person, but I've been looking into trades that could suit my mindset. What do you mean when you say "gravitate towards job that put you in the film business" though? Are there certain trades that can put you in proximity to filmmakers? (Like being an electrician or something)

Thanks for the advice

 

[Liv]

I seem to recall having seen this movie before. Why don't you and your sister piggy back film school? If you are identical twins, dress and style your selves the same and you can both attend for the cost of one tuition. ;-D For the record, I am not suggesting that you and/or your sister defraud the school or do anything illegal/immoral/against school rules. I am simply pointing out that, were one so inclined, non-traditional options exist for identical twins.

If I were ever desperate, why not?

 

[Liv]

IMO]
As far as access to equipment, there's a big difference between borrowing someone's 5D or even Blackmagic and using, say, the $200,000 Alexa package and $100,000 grip package at the film school I went to.

Of course, the argument could be made that a lot of film schools cost upwards of $40k/year and you could rent out equipment/make a feautre etc. for that kind of money.

If you're that way inclined, it's not necessarily a bad way to go. But IMO, someone who's never directed before is more likely to waste that money on a film. Whilst your projects at school may be shorter, there's a lot more of them, and you're still getting use of equipment and labour that you'd be paying for otherwise.\

Those are definitely good points. But would you say these expensive camera packages can only be found in 40k+ a year film schools? I understand small community colleges with a 3k a year tuition probably won't have these materials. But in such instances, would you say the materials offered at those 3k a year CC's aren't any better than the 3,000$ worth of equipment you could simply buy on your own?

Basically, I'm trying to figure out whether this equipment thing only applies to "real" film schools, or whether the importance of school owned equipment applies to community colleges as well. Thanks a lot for your input

 

[mlesemann]

http://www.deanza.edu/filmtv/main1.html

From ItDonnedOnMe's link
Here's the link re facilities for film and video production
Looks well worth considering

 

[Liv]

Your profile says you're from Northern California - are you at all familiar with/close to DeAnza College?

http://www.deanza.edu

It's a community college in the San Jose area that's had a very strong film/television department for decades now. For instance, they've got 30 classes scheduled for the spring semester - including several screen writing courses, 16/35mm film production, etc.

As a CA resident your tuition would be $31 a unit. If you're ambitious you can max out at about 19-20 units/semester - so a semesters total tuition would be $750 or less after various student fees. So for about $3000 over a 2-year period you can both knock out your general education requirements (which will transfer to either a UC or State University) and get a real education in filmmaking.

This will give you real experience, training, practice and access to equipment. You'll meet and work with other people who are interested in and learning the same stuff you are. You'll be prepared for a university if you choose to continue on to one, and it'll be as academically challenging as you choose to make it. You'll likely come out of it with little or no debt, and after a couple years there you should have a much better idea of where you want to go next with your education & career.

This may sound a little strange, but your post absolutely inspired me. I hadn't the slightest idea that a $3,000 quality film school existed. Unfortunately, the location is a bit far for me, but it's certainly something to consider

I spent about an hour researching community colleges last night after reading your response. I found several good looking, and most importantly CHEAP, schools in Los Angeles. The issue, however, is that I'm now torn between making the move to LA to go to one of these schools, or trying to find a cheap community college for film in my area. I've searched, and there doesn't seem to be much where I am. Hopefully, I can dig up something, as I'd like the option to get my education back home if needed (a move to Los Angeles out of high school seems a bit daunting)

If I found a community college for film in my area outside of LA, I would be eager to look into it. But I have a few reservations

1. Are the people at these schools "serious" about filmmaking
2. Would it be best to seek an education near LA anyways, because there are far fewer professionals working in, say, the county I live in (finding talented crew for a short film would be easier in Los Angeles as opposed to a smaller town)
3. As I asked someone up above, is the equipment at a community college anything special, or does it pale in comparison to 4 year University's. Do they even offer 35mm and 16mm film equipment?

Thanks so much if you happen to read this I'm quite curious about the benefits of community college for film studies. I always wanted to study film in college, but until now I completely crossed it off the list because I wasn't willing to drop 40k for that. But, $3,000 is something I could definitely do

 

[ItDonnedOnMe]

Do only the expensive, four year University's have film stock for students to practice with? Or would a community college have these things too

I don't think you'll find anywhere that has film stock to practice with - the schools generally just provide the cameras and you buy the stock and pay for the processing yourself. Very few community colleges have actual film equipment (as opposed to digital), which is one of the reasons I recommended DeAnza, it's very unique in that regard.

hmmm. I think the transfer agreement still applies in California. That definitely sounds like a good idea; though I'm not sure about devoting 6 years of my life to college.

Generally you don't do two years at a community college followed by four years at a university - the two years worth of credits put you into the university at junior level so you still finish in four years. It doesn't even have to take a full two years, if you've got the time and drive to tackle enough classes at once - I basically transferred to a UC as a junior after 1.5 years at a community college.

 

[Liv]

The first thing that you must do is decide upon your goals; what do you want to do? Direct? Write? Take on a more technical but creative aspect like being a DP/Cinematographer, editor, something in the sound field like a PSM, sound editor or mixer, or.....?

If you want to direct my suggestion is to work on other film sets. Do any job you can get - go'fer, PA, driver, 99th assistant anything; even negative lessons are good lessons. Too many fledgling indie filmmakers think that they can do it all. And yes, that is possible, but first you have to learn it all, and there is just too much for one person to absorb quickly, if at all.

After all of that you may find that you do want to go to film school, but then you will have learned what you need to learn. In fact, knowing that there is always something new to learn is one mark of a professional; another is learning from the mistakes of others, which is why I suggest working for others before you "work" for yourself.

I wish you well.

Uncle Bob will stop rambling now.....

Thanks Uncle Bob

I've always wanted to be a screenwriter, without a doubt. Though I consider myself relatively new to filmmaking (I know the bare basics), I've probably spent a few hundred hours these past 3 years studying and working on screenwriting. It was always my first passion. I've always been inclined towards English and the humanities, and writing was something that immediately caught my attention. This interest sort of naturally branched into directing as time went by. I also like to paint and do visual artwork, and the field of film production seemed very interesting. A large part of it is that I'd like to direct my work as well. If I write a screenplay, I'd feel a bit disheartened handing the hard work off to someone else, especially when I feel as if I could convey the vision better

Now I'm rambling...

I would consider working in LA as a PA or other low level jobs (though I've still got my own personal demons to sort in regards to leaving home and living on my own for the first time). How difficult would you say these jobs are to obtain? And more importantly, how would you go about getting one?

Thank you! I'm eager to hear more about your experiences

 

[MileCreations]

So how would you suggest I help her? I can't stand the thought of 'leaving her behind' and creating a career for myself on my own. I'm not going to lie that it's an idea I've toyed with. It would certainly be infinitely easier and less stressful. But the guilt of abandoning her and the potential competitive mindset it could create is something I'm not sure I could deal with

Is there a possibility that this could motivate your sister more if you were to push out on your own?

 

[Beatlesfan1225]

Needing film school to gain access to filmmakers/equipment/connections is complete BULLSH*T. Jump on to Facebook, get involved with actor groups, meet up with local filmmakers, develop talent, borrow people's gear and so on. There are so many people out there with gear that you can beg, borrow or steal (hell, they may even come with the gear to help).

I respectfully disagree with this statement; though I know this is one of the main points of contention about whether or not to attend to film school. Let me first start by saying that I'm attending film school at Columbia College Chicago this fall, so my opinion is obviously biased towards film school. But in regards to why I disagree w/ Sweetie's statement, here goes:

Sure, you can network on Facebook and locally within your community, and you may be able to get ahold of some local aspiring filmmakers that you can use/borrow gear from, but, let's be honest, that gear is nothing in comparison to a quality film school.

One of the reason I chose Columbia was because I want to be involved in big budget motion pictures; I want to make the Ridley Scott type stuff. Lots of stuff going on. At Columbia, (And this goes the same for all the other schools I also considered) I get to use the big RED cameras, I get to use the massive sound stages, the cranes and dollies, the professional editing and mixing rooms, the motion capture studios, green rooms, sound studios, etc. Chances of getting into motion capture CGI technology through local networking seems sort of slim...

Moreover, I don't think that networking w/ small time local filmmakers and actors is going to get you into the big leagues, unless you already live in Hollywood, maybe. At the school I'm attending, I'll be doing two different internship programs, one with the BBC in Britain, and one with a real film studio in California. I actually get to spend a whole semester in California on a campus, on a studio lot, and the program is designed for me to make connections and ideally get a job in California and stay there permanently after that semester. (You do it your final semester)

Now, it isn't to say that all of this isn't a risk - Just because you have the means to do something doesn't mean you can. The same goes for saying that just because you don't have the means, you can't. It comes down to motivation and the amount of effort you put into it. You get in what you get out. And if your set up in a position with a school that can give you a lot out of it the more you put in, that's a beneficial position to be in.

On the financial side... build a strong creative portfolio, hope for scholarships from schools. Write essays, apply for scholarships, and if worst comes to worst, you can join the majority of students like myself in student loan debt. Unfortunately, you gotta do what you gotta do, in my opinion.

Again, I'm probably the minority in this opinion. But the way I see it, you need a college degree in today's job marketplace, and I'd rather do everything and anything possible to get a degree that'll set me up for what I want to do in life and give me several opportunities to actually get involved in that.

That's my two cents.

 

[Sweetie]

Hey Beatles,

I hear what you're saying. You bring up great points. I agree with you, there are benefits to going to a great film school. You do get access to gear and people. I personally think that the decision of whether to go to film school has more to do with whether you benefit from structured learning or not, but that isn't the topic at hand.

I was attempting to answer whether it is absolutely ESSENTIAL to go to film school as it is the ONLY route to gain access to the gear/people/connections.

Not every film school has Reds, Alexas, sound stages, cranes and so on. Not every film school is a quality film school. Not everyone on Facebook is shooting with a t2i or an iPhone using camera sound. Not every film school student is superstar. Not everyone outside film school is an untalented schmuck. There are a lot of shades between. The fact remains, there are more Alexas/Reds [insert more gear here] owned outside film school than inside. There are also more filming professionals that aren't students.

All I'm saying is film school isn't their ONLY option if they want access to gear/people/networking. If you go to the right film school, you'll get access to everything Beatles mentioned (and sometimes more). If gear/access to people is your only reason to go to film school, you may be better off considering if other options are better for you.

 

[David.rhsc]

hmmm. I think the transfer agreement still applies in California. That definitely sounds like a good idea; though I'm not sure about devoting 6 years of my life to college. I was thinking I'd start my career out of high school, rather than adding on another academic delay

Sorry I didn't clarify. Transferring from a JC to a UC (or CSU, which is a less expensive system) doesn't add 2 years to your duration at all. You're basically knocking out your Freshman/Sophmore requirements at the JC and transferring as a Junior (3rd year student) Should take you max 3 more years to finish, and many folks who go to a regular UC/CSU from the get go take 5 years to finish their undergrad anyway. I and most folks I knew at the time finished in 4, but YMMV depending on major requirements. At my school they didn't want to accept my credits for 2 required "lower division" (ie freshman/sophmore credits) pre-requisite courses. Fortunately I tested out of those and came in as a full Junior.

And that's while still partying way too much, going partially off the deep end due to a very ugly break-up that resulted in me losing my home and living out of my car for the first couple months of my senior year, and working at least 2 simultaneous part time jobs.

That's really insightful. I never considered the whole "it won't be as fun when you're 25" thing. The film stock is also an excellent point, as I'd love to learn both digital and traditional filmmaking. But tell me this. Do only the expensive, four year University's have film stock for students to practice with? Or would a community college have these things too

Thank you!

Thanks, I don't always have insightful things to say (ask anyone here), but it occasionally happens.

I think at this point even SFSU is solely teaching digital these days as film has fallen quite out of favor. I don't really know though, but if you dig around for schools you may be able to find some. You might have some luck finding groups/clubs at a given school that are into shooting celluloid - a part of me keeps hoping that young "hipsters" will bring back film as an acquisition format, sort of like how they are among the last guardians of the vinyl record.

Frankly though, if you are interested in delving deeper into celluloid, look around for a cheap manual stills camera like an old Canon AE-1 (partial to this as I have had one since I was a teenager), Minolta, Olympus, or I think there was a nice Ricoh as well. You could probably score a working one of these with a lens or two for dirt cheap. It's not motion, but it will teach you to think about your compositions and what you are trying to say/do with a particular image, and to visualize your exposure without the benefit of monitors, waveforms, false color, and all the other tools available today.

And you'd certainly be able to take a photography class (even before college most likely) that would teach you how to develop/print your own rolls which keeps costs down on processing and such. There are also several places that will teach classes in this - Studio One Art Center in Oakland might still teach and rent their darkroom out, and some of the few remaining "mom and pop" camera stores do the same. Heck, you don't even have to strike prints. Rayko photo center in SF has very reasonable rates for their negative scanners. Develop the rolls in your bathroom, mark the ones you like, and reserve an hour or two on one of their machines. Boom, digital photos from an analog camera.

8mm cameras are also inexpensive these days, and the fundamentals are still the same. Maybe even a better choice and less of a diversion from your goal. Come to think of it, the photography option is probably a bit much unless you *really* want to dive into the technical aspects of things.

------------

Having said that, you've indicated a strong interest in writing, so maybe think of the "practicing shooting film" thing as something to try out and see if appeals to you strongly enough to specialize? Having a broad knowledge base is incredibly important for a writer (imnsho), as is getting out there and meeting people and experiencing life at as many levels as possible. Some of my favorite novelists had other careers prior to taking up writing professionally and I think their work is all the stronger for it.

Touching on the gear question - you won't find 6 figure equipment packages in community colleges for the most part. You definitely won't find gear comparable to a place like Columbia. There used to be a CC around the Bay Area that had a few 35mm cameras, but they were all very old Arri BL3's, I want to say it was in the San Jose area, but I don't remember which one and have no idea if they still have them. I didn't go to that particular school, I did some 1AC work for students there when I was starting out because a couple of them found I could pull focus on 35 and would do it for the experience at the time. Worth messing with, but hardly a marquee top end film camera in the 21st century. Check around and see if the film programs that interest you accept JC transfers, though I would still recommend doing "film school" at the graduate level, but that is a significant time/money investment all told - so I understand that as well.

 

[ItDonnedOnMe]

The community college I attended didn't have any film or video production courses, so I went the route of focusing on photography while I was there. I'd already been working in the darkroom in high school for a while, but I spent a couple hours a day in either the darkroom or studio for the entire time I was at the JC, while also shooting video and 8mm on my own. I also worked in a 1-hour photo lab for the last year I was at JC - color correcting 500-1000 photos a day on a deadline is a great way to develop an eye for color. Between photo classes and the job it put me way ahead on a technical level by the time I actually got to film school, even though it technically none of it was 'film' studies.

I also ended up taking 5 years to finish my undergrad studies - after completing the film program I stuck around for an extra year and finished up a modern lit degree as well. A big reason for that was that from a theory and writing standpoint the modern lit classes were significantly better than most of the film department courses, and we covered quite a bit of film and television material as part of those classes. So I'd definitely second the notion that there are other courses of study you can undertake in college that will be relevant to a filmmaking career.

I'd also add you never know what the future will bring. After a summer internship in LA I realized I was interested in filmmaking, not working in the film & television industry. That had as much impact on my future career as anything I studied in school. The stuff I do for a living now didn't even exist back when I was deciding what to major in - in fact, it barely even existed in the sci-fi I was reading back then, and now most people don't even give it a second thought.

I hadn't the slightest idea that a $3,000 quality film school existed. Unfortunately, the location is a bit far for me, but it's certainly something to consider (...) I found several good looking, and most importantly CHEAP, schools in Los Angeles.

Wouldn't LA be even farther?

1. Are the people at these schools "serious" about filmmaking

It's hard to say in any general sense - community colleges attract a much wider range of people than larger universities or trade schools typically do. I don't have first hand experience with DeAnza so I can't speak specifically to them, but based on the scale of their program compared to most other community colleges I'd say it's likely you'll find a lot of people who are serious about filmmaking there, probably more than at many community colleges.

I have taught a few courses at community colleges over the years. My personal observation has been that in general the students who were there straight out of high school weren't particularly serious about it. They tended to be the ones who just did the minimum they needed to to pass the class. I'd get a lot of students who were older - either looking to add new skills applicable to their current jobs, or finally deciding to pursue something they'd always been interested in but never got the chance to study. Those were the ones who were serious about it, and would go above and beyond what I asked of them. They came in to class early, and they'd keep me after class with endless questions. It was several of these people who became the founding members of It Donned On Me (for the first few years I was the youngest member of the team!), and essentially re-ignited my own passion for filmmaking.

The difference really did came down to passion; a lot of the recent high school grads were just there because they felt like they should go to college, not because they were pursuing their passion. That's really the key answer to the question of whether any film school is worth it - you'll get as much out of it as you put into it. Someone half-assing their way through NYU, USC or UCLA is probably wasting their time and money, regardless of how good the film programs are. And someone who's serious about wringing every drop out of the resources available to them can make any school with a half-decent program worth their time.

 

[Liv]

Sorry I didn't clarify. Transferring from a JC to a UC (or CSU, which is a less expensive system) doesn't add 2 years to your duration at all. You're basically knocking out your Freshman/Sophmore requirements at the JC and transferring as a Junior (3rd year student) Should take you max 3 more years to finish

Thanks for clearing that up

Frankly though, if you are interested in delving deeper into celluloid, look around for a cheap manual stills camera like an old Canon AE-1 (partial to this as I have had one since I was a teenager), Minolta, Olympus, or I think there was a nice Ricoh as well. You could probably score a working one of these with a lens or two for dirt cheap. It's not motion, but it will teach you to think about your compositions and what you are trying to say/do with a particular image, and to visualize your exposure without the benefit of monitors, waveforms, false color, and all the other tools available today.

8mm cameras are also inexpensive these days, and the fundamentals are still the same. Maybe even a better choice and less of a diversion from your goal. Come to think of it, the photography option is probably a bit much unless you *really* want to dive into the technical aspects of things.

Awesome suggestions! This really helps me, so thank you. I'll most certainly look into some of these. I was originally worried 35mm filmmaking was completely different from digital filmmaking, but if the fundamentals are the same and your DP takes care of the technical differences, I feel a lot more comfortable moving forward with learning digital filmmaking exclusively

Having said that, you've indicated a strong interest in writing, so maybe think of the "practicing shooting film" thing as something to try out and see if appeals to you strongly enough to specialize? Having a broad knowledge base is incredibly important for a writer (imnsho), as is getting out there and meeting people and experiencing life at as many levels as possible. Some of my favorite novelists had other careers prior to taking up writing professionally and I think their work is all the stronger for it

That's also a nice point. I'm trying to "experience" as much life as I can now vicariously through books and personal stories (I know, lame in comparison). Generally, my community is very safe, bland, and school oriented. Hopefully this can change

 

[Liv]

It's hard to say in any general sense - community colleges attract a much wider range of people than larger universities or trade schools typically do. I don't have first hand experience with DeAnza so I can't speak specifically to them, but based on the scale of their program compared to most other community colleges I'd say it's likely you'll find a lot of people who are serious about filmmaking there, probably more than at many community colleges.

I have taught a few courses at community colleges over the years. My personal observation has been that in general the students who were there straight out of high school weren't particularly serious about it. They tended to be the ones who just did the minimum they needed to to pass the class. I'd get a lot of students who were older - either looking to add new skills applicable to their current jobs, or finally deciding to pursue something they'd always been interested in but never got the chance to study. Those were the ones who were serious about it, and would go above and beyond what I asked of them. They came in to class early, and they'd keep me after class with endless questions. It was several of these people who became the founding members of It Donned On Me (for the first few years I was the youngest member of the team!), and essentially re-ignited my own passion for filmmaking.

The difference really did came down to passion; a lot of the recent high school grads were just there because they felt like they should go to college, not because they were pursuing their passion. That's really the key answer to the question of whether any film school is worth it - you'll get as much out of it as you put into it. Someone half-assing their way through NYU, USC or UCLA is probably wasting their time and money, regardless of how good the film programs are. And someone who's serious about wringing every drop out of the resources available to them can make any school with a half-decent program worth their time.

This is actually a relief to me. Right now, I'm a little sick of working with other teenagers. I enjoy speaking with adults, because I do feel they have stories to tell (I know, that sounds corny). As far as the whole "go to college for life experience" thing goes, one would think a community college would expose you to more backgrounds than an expensive ivy league (generally speaking, not always)

 

[sfoster]

Liv you don't get the 'college experience' at community college because you have to live on campus to get that experience.

it's about a bunch of people finally being away from their parents and having real freedom for the first time in their lives
you can do all kinds of dumb shit. i adopted a 30 hour day, waking up 8 hours later each day.. I missed a lot of classes and did really terrible as a freshmen

 

[David.rhsc]

Sorry for not quoting, cumbersome to do so from my phone:

@sfoster -- that is somewhat true, though there aren't really too many choices within commuting distance from Yolo county, so she'll likely need to consider moving out anyway. Besides, if she transfers to a 4 year school she'll be able to have some of that classic experience.

Not everyone can afford a full run at a UC or a CSU, and the Cali CC system opens to doors of higher education to those folks.

@Donned - jeebus I feel silly. De Anza is the school I could not recall the name of, and you even mentioned it here before I did.

@Liv - yup. Fundamentals are the same if you are making a film with a million dollars worth of gear or with your iPhone and some lights from Home Depot. It's like art, if you can't draw with a pen and paper a fancy 3d animation program isn't going to fix that.

 

[jax_rox]

I was originally worried 35mm filmmaking was completely different from digital filmmaking, but if the fundamentals are the same and your DP takes care of the technical differences, I feel a lot more comfortable moving forward with learning digital filmmaking exclusively

As far as I'm aware, even USC has dropped motion picture film from it's course and gone entirely digital.

Shooting on digital is certainly different than shooting on film - but the reality is, unless you want to be a DP yourself, you simply need to hire the right DP who has the knowledge and experience to help execute your vision, whether that's on film or digital. To be frank, film is dying a pretty swift death - it's entirely possible that someone starting out in the industry now may never get a chance to shoot 35mm motion picture film.

 

[Beatlesfan1225]

There are also more filming professionals that aren't students.

Most of them probably were, though.

You're right, there are lots of shades of availability of things and the experience of people in and out of film school. So is it, ESSENTIAL, maybe, maybe not. But it sure opens up a whole lot more options, which is what I think my post was trying to get at.