In the middle of my first short, need advice

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Hey everyone,

I was hoping some of you could chime in and give me some advice. I've been doing video for YouTube for a long time but the last 6 months decided to get seriously into short film making. With that said it was a ton more work than I thought, even though I thought it would be a lot. I've encountered so many challenges and just wanted to talk some of them over with you guys. Unfortunately I can't find anyone in my area to connect with on this.

First finding actors/actresses was pretty tough. I went the CL route and that yields mediocre results. I have a couple people respond every time I renew an ad, but they are just not what I had in mind for the roles. In the end I had to pick the best of what I had which is far from ideal. With that said I felt lucky to have people that seemed halfway passionate about doing something like a short film and that was willing to work for nothing but coffee and food.

Second, finding locations have been challenging. I tried to keep my first short as simple as possible because everything I read said to do that. I feel like this is a huge limitation but necessary. For example I'd love to do a car chase scene through the middle of a downtown and wreck a few of them, and when I have a few million bucks laying around I let you know how it goes lol. But in all seriousness I feel like having a simple location, in my case outdoors/woods scene, was the easiest way to make sure I finished the short.

Third, doing everything myself has been a bear. I have to setup everything, think about everything, film everything, edit everything, etc. etc. I keep trying to find people that want to help (friends, family even) and some say "Yeah!" and then cancel at the last minute or just don't show up at all I'm actually not talking to one long time friend because he screwed me and everyone else at the last minute.

So with that background I will tell you I've shot 2 days on my first short. After day one I was so excited b/c when I edited the footage and put it together it felt really good about what I saw. Then we had weather delays, and one of the actors couldn't make it so we had to shoot a couple weeks later. That posed some whether issues but we got day 2 done. I edited everything and hooked it together etc. Day 2 was the interaction between the 2 actors and it didn't feel as "believable" to me so I'm not sure what to do. I don't want to go as far to say any one of them are "bad" at acting but not sure how else to say it.

Which leads me to my questions I'd like to discuss:

1. Do you keep going when you feel like your actors are not the best?

I mean I'm not sure what to do, b/c I'm very limited in my location with actors that are willing to do it for no pay although I am constantly looking. I guess I feel lucky to have what I have, but they don't live up to what you want what do you do? My feeling is I'm learning as a filmmaker every time I shoot, but I guess I wanted the end result to be a certain quality acting wise, am I being too unrealistic especially for my first short?

2. How do I go about getting a certain location for a more complex scene?

For example I would like to use a old house, maybe a farmhouse but I don't know of anyone that has one, do you just drive around and knock on doors? Seems like a good way to get shot?

I have a lot more questions but thought I should stop there for right now, thanks for any advice.

 

[WhiteOpus]

Third, doing everything myself has been a bear. I have to setup everything, think about everything, film everything, edit everything, etc. etc. I keep trying to find people that want to help (friends, family even) and some say "Yeah!" and then cancel at the last minute or just don't show up at all

Welcome to indie filmmaking! Seriously though, just push through it and eventually you'll find a workflow that is efficient and stress-free (for the most part). You'll still be doing all the work, correspondence and research, but at least you won't be pulling your hair out over it.

1. Do you keep going when you feel like your actors are not the best?

I mean I'm not sure what to do, b/c I'm very limited in my location with actors that are willing to do it for no pay although I am constantly looking. I guess I feel lucky to have what I have, but they don't live up to what you want what do you do? My feeling is I'm learning as a filmmaker every time I shoot, but I guess I wanted the end result to be a certain quality acting wise, am I being too unrealistic especially for my first short?

I think it's important to remember that your actors are only going to be as believable as the script allows them to be. More importantly, it's the director's job to get the best out of each actor, depending on what the director has envisioned. I definitely find it difficult to tell people, "CUT! no, that's wrong, let's do it again, try to be more _________". However, it is totally necessary so that you can get exactly what YOU want to see instead of how your actors perceive the script's mood, intensity, pacing, etc.

Of course, if your script involves an intense mental breakdown/crying/other intense emotion, you'll probably want actors who have more experience. Have you shot any music videos? Just getting an idea of what your experience level is, I believe that one should (initially) write shorts based on their skill/experience level. I try not to write something into a script unless I am positive I can accomplish it with the meager budgets I usually work with.

 

[Auto_Doc]

Welcome to indie filmmaking! Seriously though, just push through it and eventually you'll find a workflow that is efficient and stress-free (for the most part). You'll still be doing all the work, correspondence and research, but at least you won't be pulling your hair out over it.


I think it's important to remember that your actors are only going to be as believable as the script allows them to be. More importantly, it's the director's job to get the best out of each actor, depending on what the director has envisioned. I definitely find it difficult to tell people, "CUT! no, that's wrong, let's do it again, try to be more _________". However, it is totally necessary so that you can get exactly what YOU want to see instead of how your actors perceive the script's mood, intensity, pacing, etc.

Of course, if your script involves an intense mental breakdown/crying/other intense emotion, you'll probably want actors who have more experience. Have you shot any music videos? Just getting an idea of what your experience level is, I believe that one should (initially) write shorts based on their skill/experience level. I try not to write something into a script unless I am positive I can accomplish it with the meager budgets I usually work with.

You have a private message.

 

[Sweetie]

First finding actors/actresses was pretty tough. I went the CL route and that yields mediocre results. I have a couple people respond every time I renew an ad, but they are just not what I had in mind for the roles. In the end I had to pick the best of what I had which is far from ideal. With that said I felt lucky to have people that seemed halfway passionate about doing something like a short film and that was willing to work for nothing but coffee and food.

Sometimes it's really hit or miss, especially when you're starting off. I've never used CL, so I have no idea on its effectiveness compared with other methods.

It's all about aligning your goals with their goals. Working out, what's in it for them and what's in it for you.

Day 2 was the interaction between the 2 actors and it didn't feel as "believable" to me so I'm not sure what to do. I don't want to go as far to say any one of them are "bad" at acting but not sure how else to say it.

I don't want to insult you here, but your job is to get the performance from the actors. Yes, they have to bring it, but if they cannot, you need to develop the skills to coax it out of them otherwise, directing isn't for you. Don't fret too much about it. I'm relatively weak in that area too, so I know I need to work on it too.

I do any courses that I feel will help me in that endeavor and expose myself to those who are better at it than me so I can learn.

Do you keep going when you feel like your actors are not the best?

Yes and no. I tend to keep going, especially for short projects. You need to weigh up your options and pick your best option.

I guess I feel lucky to have what I have, but they don't live up to what you want what do you do? My feeling is I'm learning as a filmmaker every time I shoot, but I guess I wanted the end result to be a certain quality acting wise, am I being too unrealistic especially for my first short?

Try something. There's a program from Hollywood Camera Work that teaches you how to elicit emotion from a scene using manikins (did I spell that right, you know, the lifeless plastic models you see in department stores). It's a course for directors. While I'm not saying this is the case, but the failure may lie squarely on the directors shoulders. It's not fair to rely upon amateur actors to pull a professional performance when the director isn't doing their part properly. While that course won't get you all the way to being a great director, it can help you with one part of the equation that you may be missing.

You may be unreasonable too. There's nothing wrong with being unreasonable. A lot of the most successful people in the world are also unreasonable, though, they tend to look at how they can be better so they can attract better people.

How do I go about getting a certain location for a more complex scene?

For example I would like to use a old house, maybe a farmhouse but I don't know of anyone that has one, do you just drive around and knock on doors? Seems like a good way to get shot?

Yep, we've gone into this time and time again on the forums. Dig up some old threads and you'll see that in fact, yes, if you want something, you have to ask. What's the worst that will happen? You die living the dream!

What WhiteOpus says is very important. Work within your means.

Last but not least, when people turn up to day and and don't turn up to day 2, it usually indicates a problem with the production. It could be an unprofessional environment that people aren't willing to put up with, disorganized, unprepared, going too slow, going too fast, not what was expected, wasting peoples time, not feeling appreciated, under crewed, over crewed and so on.

I understand that you want to make films and you don't have access to filmmakers in your local area. You need to find them and reach out. It can take time. Build up your network and it will start to happen for you. The short cut, offer to pay your crew. It shortens the time it'll take to make your dream happen, otherwise, you need to hit the pavement and make contacts.

 

[Auto_Doc]

I don't want to insult you here, but your job is to get the performance from the actors. Yes, they have to bring it, but if they cannot, you need to develop the skills to coax it out of them otherwise, directing isn't for you. Don't fret too much about it. I'm relatively weak in that area too, so I know I need to work on it too.

No insult taken at all, I asked for help and I appreciate it. I guess it is entirely possible I didn't coax it out, but I guess I feel like there is only so many times I can say "like this..." and get the same thing. Plus the weather was turning and I felt rushed to shoot, not to mention it was freakin' cold out there too.

You may be unreasonable too. There's nothing wrong with being unreasonable. A lot of the most successful people in the world are also unreasonable, though, they tend to look at how they can be better so they can attract better people.

I think I am being that way, at least based on the inexperienced actor I had. You don't become great without experience so it is unrealistic I guess to expect too much from someone that has little.

I understand that you want to make films and you don't have access to filmmakers in your local area. You need to find them and reach out. It can take time. Build up your network and it will start to happen for you.

I appreciate this comment. I am speaking with a younger guy that is in school for production and I sent him a link to some of my stuff and he is really excited to come on board and do anything. Hopefully this will work out or I'll keep trying.

I guess what I'm really struggling with is that this project was to be mainly for practice and I didn't expect much. But when I got through editing the first day of the shoot it was really so much better than I thought that I figured maybe it could turn into "something". So I decided to keep going, but then with not being happy with the second actor's performance nearly as much I feel like I'm at a crossroads. I can either try to work with him and "coax" something more out that I like if I can, or replace him and re-shoot (whole other set of challenges) or find someone else to take over as a second character and we never see him again (preferred method). But maybe it is just better to move on to my next short that I have written that the better cast is interested in doing then to try to bring them in to make this one better.

 

[sfoster]

don't take the acting feedback too hard.

You've got people off CL working for free, the talent simply may not be there. Especially if you didn't audition and had to take whatever was available.

But ye it's your responsibility to finish. Especially with a short film and simple locations, there is no excuse not to get a complete product.

2 - It's not great to write a location that you don't have access to. This is one of the biggest benefits of being your own short film writer.. you can write to locations you can actually access. Use that advantage, don't write stuff that is beyond your reach.

If you must find that.. yeah you could drive around i suppose. Or google maps might work for you. Or asking friends. There's not going to be a brochure!

 

[Sweetie]

No insult taken at all, I asked for help and I appreciate it. I guess it is entirely possible I didn't coax it out, but I guess I feel like there is only so many times I can say "like this..." and get the same thing. Plus the weather was turning and I felt rushed to shoot, not to mention it was freakin' cold out there too.

There's a video training package from Nina Foch. It can help you as a director understand actors slightly better. The first disk is relatively good, though the second I found to be a complete waste of time. It may help you if you can get your grubby little hands on. It may help you understand another level of what may be missing. IE. A better way than using, "like this"

I know what its like to shoot in adverse conditions. My first short, we had the hottest day for the year during the shoot. 42 Celsius (about 107 Fahrenheit). Add lights, lots of movement and lots of bodies, and the temperature goes up higher and some people with minor heatstroke/sunburns from the previous days shooting, you just have to plow through.

I think I am being that way, at least based on the inexperienced actor I had. You don't become great without experience so it is unrealistic I guess to expect too much from someone that has little.

Not quite what I meant. More like, "It's always been done like that, no one does it the way you're saying. It's impossible," and the next thing you know, you're a pioneer with everyone following your new trend. The fact that you used an inexperienced actor constitutes a failure on your part. You've got something to strive for. To become a director that is so skillful enough that you are beating actors away with a stick, so much so, you get the pick of the litter instead of needing to scrape the bottom of the barrel.

I can either try to work with him and "coax" something more out

It can come down to motivation. I find some of my actors are often more motivated than I am, which I find is really odd. I'm used to being the most motivated person in the room.

But maybe it is just better to move on to my next short that I have written that the better cast is interested in doing then to try to bring them in to make this one better.

This is a really good lesson to learn. Sometimes a project just goes pear shaped. It happens. It's important to finish every project you begin, one way or another. Sometimes you have to cut your losses and look for short cuts to wrap it and move on to the next project.

Currently I'm planning on doing nothing more than short scenes. Similar to showreel scenes to shorten my learning curve. Mostly as tests leading towards a feature film later this year. It's easier to build up a team for projects that have a small amount of time required by everyone involved.

You just need to do what will help you achieve your goals the most. If you need to learn more about how film sets work/increase your network/figure out what you want to do, getting on to other people's productions is your best move. If you need more of a showreel, shooting your own shorts is what you should be doing. If you're beyond that, then feature films/pilots/web series (for some) is where you should be at.