I probably should have asked you guys earlier...

[fiddilydee]

So me and my friends are getting into filmmaking. Some of us have been in a band for a while so we started writing some funny scripts about our band and our various hilarious aquaintances. Anyways enough about the content.

We have almost no equipment, 2 identical bottom of the line jvc minidv cams and a large diaphram condenser mic.

We shot 2 test episodes. We know that the video quality is going to be bad for now (we are ok with that) the problem is the audio (it need's to be clear in order for the jokes to come across) We recorded the first test with just the cams, no external mic, When I was peicing it together I mostly took the audio track from one of the cameras and used the video from both, lining it up as we went. The audio with the cameras is terrible so we tried with the condenser for the second test.

We have lots of experience recording a band but nothing like this. To keep things simple I told the camera and sound guys not to stop rolling once we started shooting a scene because that way I would only have to sync audio a couple of times instead of on every take. I think this created more work than it saved though because I have to sift through hours of bs to get the goods (im sure I missed some stuff).

So what I want is there an easier way to dol this, do better cameras have mics that would be passable? is it possible to hook up 2 cameras and the mic up to the computer with "premier" and record straight off the computer so the timecode is the same for all devices (We have a multitrack soundcard with phantom power but I assume you would also need some kind of Firewire hub.

Oh and wind is causing problems with all outdoor shots. So far we tried foam covers and socks, they did not really help.

Anyways we really have no idea what we are doing here so any help would be appreciated. We live in a small town with few interested people so finding external help is out of the question. Thanks in advance for your help

 

[M1chae1]

Better cameras definitely have usable onboard mics--as long as you are in CU with your actors. You will need to boom for all other occasions. You may want to look into getting a boom, it will solve your sound quality issues. And as far as wind, you want to get a furry cover for it, AKA a 'dead cat.'

As far as plugging in...I'm not sure what your camera supports, but you can plug the external boom straight into your camera if you have the cord--this will solve your syncing problems right away (at least, that's how we do it).

As far as recording into the computer...I don't know the details so I won't even try--but I'm sure someone else here will help you.

Good luck.

 

[H.Z.]

Since you are fine with crappy image quality buy an external mic, not a better camera. Onboard audio for cameras may get better as you go up, but it's still frustrating and crappy. Like M1cae1 said you have to be close, and if you are shooting out doors you are going to need a mic with a very directional pick-up pattern... You're doing comedy so def. spend any money on sexy sound over sexy image.

 

[directorik]

The key to getting better audio is to get the mic as close to the
actors as you can. A large diaphragm mic has a wide pick up
pattern - meaning it picks up everything as you have found out.

You want mic with a “lobar” pick up pattern to put on your boom
pole. Lobar pick up means the mic focuses its audio pick up to a
narrow area. This is why you want to use a boom pole to get the
mic as close the the actors as possible - you’ll get clean
dialogue tracks with less ambient noise.

Since your bottom of the line cameras don’t have mic jacks, you
will need to record to an audio recorder. With no money to spend
on professional equipment you can make do with recording to a lap
top or other recorder. You will have to spend the time syncing to
audio to the video (and I know that this is really time
consuming) but it’s a no cost solution to your sound issues.

 

[fiddilydee]

Thanks for the advice, our cameras do have an 1/8 input so I could use a Y cable with RCA ends to go from the mixer/preamp, thus taking the computer out of the equation all together. I don't know how I am going to get a furry dead cat (I have 2 alive ones but I like them alive) (also I know that it is not really a dead cat) but that looks like it will fix the wind problem, guess ill order it online.

What about audio processing, I have done alot of recording so I know about this stuff but what is the standard for video? Do you guys use compression or normalizing, eq, things like that? Is there any programs you prefer? I've used Cubase alot for multitracking but it seems a little overkill. I don't like the way premier does audio mixing, any other suggestions?

 

[fiddilydee]

One other question about cameras. We do want to upgrade soon, what is the cheapest way to get good video? I know this is a loaded question, but I would like specific examples of cheap cameras that will give me a all around decent picture. We have some lights and homemade reflectors so I do know that it is not just the camera. Right now we have 2 Canon ZR500's. It is a fluke that they are the same, the were definately not purchased with this project in mind. They are not very good at all.

 

[spinner]

....there are people here who can tell you more about lighting the 'narrative' or story part of your music video -- that's what you're doing, right? I can talk a little about how to shoot your performances...

...We have almost no equipment, 2 identical bottom of the line jvc minidv cams and a large diaphram condenser mic.....

Sure you do! You have 2 Canon camcorders. Some newbies don't have that or means to get that. Work with what you have. I found a Canon ZR 50, but no ZR 500, so I'll assume you mean 50. Something is better than nothing, so at this point don't worry so much about getting a better camera. Save up for one, but its possible to do what you need RIGHT NOW with the cameras you have. If you are going to upgrade, how much do you intend to spend? That's the question..

We shot 2 test episodes. We know that the video quality is going to be bad for now (we are ok with that)

Bad Schmad! Make sure you are in focus and get good shots. You will improve by doing and eventually you may be able to get a better camera.

the problem is the audio (it need's to be clear in order for the jokes to come across) We recorded the first test with just the cams, no external mic, When I was peicing it together I mostly took the audio track from one of the cameras and used the video from both, lining it up as we went. The audio with the cameras is terrible so we tried with the condenser for the second test.

About the audio: use the best audio you have. Whichever camera has the best sound, use that until you can get better mics or whatever. As musicians, I think you would know more about the audio ins and outs than I. I am working on learning that kind of stuff myself.

We have lots of experience recording a band but nothing like this. To keep things simple I told the camera and sound guys not to stop rolling once we started shooting a scene because that way I would only have to sync audio a couple of times instead of on every take. I think this created more work than it saved though because I have to sift through hours of bs to get the goods (im sure I missed some stuff).

Keep rolling once you start shooting: if you are shooting a performance, that's what you should do. Sitting through hours of footage is what happens when you are editing, so what is happening with you is what is supposed to happen. When you have a good final product, you will see how much it was worth it.

So what I want is there an easier way to dol this, do better cameras have mics that would be passable? is it possible to hook up 2 cameras and the mic up to the computer with "premier" and record straight off the computer so the timecode is the same for all devices (We have a multitrack soundcard with phantom power but I assume you would also need some kind of Firewire hub.

Is there a better way to do this? Probably. However, since you rock bands are NOTORIOUS for being broke -- and I know from whence I speak -- you are kind of stuck unless you can find a friendly semi-amatuer/semi-pro type film person to shoot it for you. However, it would be better to hook your camera to the AUDIO BOARD so that your sound will be better. The only way I know of to get your footage into the camera easier, is to purchase a much more expensive camera that records to a hard drive. Video sticks on camcorders -- from what I have observed and been advised -- are not very good. A camera that will do that is a few thousand dollars.

Oh and wind is causing problems with all outdoor shots. So far we tried foam covers and socks, they did not really help.

about the wind: well, better mics and better wind socks I suppose. But there is a certain amount of wind you are going to get at this point when you are using camcorders.

Anyways we really have no idea what we are doing here so any help would be appreciated. We live in a small town with few interested people so finding external help is out of the question. Thanks in advance for your help

As for not having any idea what you are doing: you ARE doing common sense things. Nothing wrong with that. Your approach -- for PERFORMANCES -- is the approach I take, because I am usually working by myself. There may be alot of footage to go through, but the final result is going to be better than your average local band will have on their profile page. And that's what you want, right? To have people want to go to your page and check you out?

Yeah, its alot of work, which is why alot of bands -- when they can afford it -- find someone to do it for them. But you gotta start somewhere, right? The more you do, the better you will get. You are off to a good start.

Good Luck!
-- spinner

 

[directorik]

One other question about cameras. We do want to upgrade soon, what is the cheapest way to get good video? I know this is a loaded question, but I would like specific examples of cheap cameras that will give me a all around decent picture. We have some lights and homemade reflectors so I do know that it is not just the camera. Right now we have 2 Canon ZR500's. It is a fluke that they are the same, the were definately not purchased with this project in mind. They are not very good at all.

So right now you have four cameras - two “bottom of the line jvc
minidv cams” and two “Canon ZR50's”. With some better lighting you
can get a decent picture with the ZR50’s. But you’re right,
getting a good image isn’t just the camera - or even the light -
it takes some time to get the experience to learn to light well.

But if you’re just doing a “point and shoot” you can get a little
better image from a camera that has 3CCD’s or larger CMOS.
Of course you need to define "cheap". If you're thinking under
$1,000 you'll find all cameras are pretty much the same. A Sony
is like a Sharp is like a Canon is like a Panasonic is like Samsung.
You can go to any Best Buy and pick up a camera in that price
range and you won’t be able to tell the difference. But they all
lack the essentials.

There are three things that are VERY important when getting a
camera:

Three CCD’s or CMOS
Manual controls for the iris, shutter, focus and white balance.
A microphone input.


The JVC GZ-HD7, the first of the JVC HDD cameras is now a little
over a year old and discontinued, but I’ve seen these on line for
as little as $800. A really nice Fujinon lens makes a huge
difference and full manual controls is important. Three 1/5’ 16:9
progressive scan CCD’s are pretty impressive for a camera in this
price range. It has manual controls, a mic input and an excellent
focus ring which is surprisingly rare on small cameras. It
records directly to a built in 60GB hard drive. The issue here is
the MPEG-2 compression (TOD). It’s not compatible with many NLE’s
so you’ll need to convert the TOD to QuickTime or AVI.

The GZ-HD6 can record 1080/60p through HDMI - pretty impressive.

The Panasonic HDC-SD100 uses a 3-CMOS array and records 1920x1080
video in the AVCHD format to SD and SDHC memory cards. I like the
ring on the lens that controls zoom, focus, white balance,
shutter speed, and iris and it actually has a viewfinder in
addition to the LCD screen. Very important it has both a mic and
headphone jack. I found it difficult to handle with all the
cables attached (mic, headphones and monitor) but it’s a camera
with all the basics.

The Panasonic HDC-HS300 is a fine camera. I got to use it in
January for a little test run shooting some behind the scenes
footage for a model shoot in Las Vegas. I likes the focus ring -
a great improvement over similar cameras. But I didn’t like the
touch screen controls. On the plus side it has the essentials -
headphone and mic jacks and manual control over all the basics. I
like that it uses the AVCHD format. There is a nice toggle switch
at the front of the lens for switching between the zoom and the
focus. It took just a few tries for me to master it.

The Panasonic HDC-SD1 records to SDHC cards using the AVCHD
compression. The mic jack is in a really awkward place behind the
LCD screen.

I love the Canon HV20 and HV30. It’s an excellent camera. It
records in HDV (1080i) and 24p (60i), has a mic input and manual
controls of white balance and focus but it uses one 1/2.7” CMOS
sensor rather than 3 CCD’s. My only reservation is it’s so small
the handling is difficult.

The HV30 adds a 30f (Canon’s “frame mode”) in addition to 24p.

The Sony HDR-SR12 has a mic input and a good sized 120GB HDD. It
uses a 1/3” CMOS chip and like the Canon is really small. Because
of the input placement, the mic cable kept getting in my way. The
HR9 (which records to tape) is also a nice, very small, camera
with the essentials. Again the mic input is just below the lens
which is rather poor placement, in my opinion.

Check out the Sony HD1000U. It has all the essentials. The touch
screen is too unusual for me - I’m old school - but it works
quite well. I like that it’s a shoulder mount camera. It only
uses one CMOS Sensor, but the image was very nice.