I got on a set for research and...

[harmonica44]

Well they shot the movie with no lighting and just used the lights from the ceiling that came with the building. And they didn't put any blankets up for reducing echo in dialogue. I asked the director and he says that he couldn't have much control over lights for such a low budget and will deal with the look in post. I asked him about how he reduces echo, and he says that with his shotgun mic, he doesn't have any echo problem. He says he sometimes has to add echo in post just to make it sound more realistic. It could be cause his shotgun looked to be a very cheap one, and didn't have much good quality sound for echo but I'm just merely guessing and am probably wrong.

So finding a set to get on, in my area is tough, since most people do not shoot things here. But I feel I didn't learn anything and am even more confused. I guess everyone has there own way of doing things. He's done shorts before and music videos, so he knows what's he's doing. But since I am more confused now, what's there to learn from this experience I could put to use or something?

 

[rayw]

... what's there to learn from this experience I could put to use or something?

Get out there, shoot some sh!t without anyone else involved, ducks at the park, cars driving down the road, wind in the trees, anything, edit it, throw it up on youtube and just wait for us to beat you.

Same normal stuff the rest of us do.

I think you're making your maiden voyage just a wee complicated.

 

[Pete]

Get out there, shoot some sh!t without anyone else involved, ducks at the park, cars driving down the road, wind in the trees, anything, edit it, throw it up on youtube and just wait for us to beat you.

That's what I'm doing now.

Also, friends willing to help you out/act/etc are a luxury. If you can find them (which you don't need to at the start), consider yourself lucky. I'm figuring that out the hard way.

 

[dlevanchuk]

Wow you have really high expectations from your first short..


prepare to be disappointed lol

 

[Lucky Hardwood]

I will never understand why people say to accept that your first project will suck. I don't see why a highly motivated person couldn't pull together a fantastic movie on their first attempt. Sure, if you try to do everything yourself, an amateur is likely to make colossal mistakes, but gathering talented people together and letting them showcase their skills can be done on a first attempt. I say swing for the fences and go for it.

 

[dlevanchuk]

I will never understand why people say to accept that your first project will suck

I'll just speak out of my small experience..

If a new person, with zero completed projects experience, wants to play a role of producer, then id say maybe, with experienced crew and lots of money, they might be able to pull off their first movie to be something acceptable to watch without turning it off in first 2 minutes.

But if a person with zero experience wants to fulfill key positions themselves (director/dop/audio AND grip) - they will fail, simply because of lack of experience.

Thats why, in my humble opinion, first dozen of projects will suck.

 

[CamVader]

Movies are like sex. If you think you were good the first time, do it every day for 5 years and then compare notes.

 

[Lucky Hardwood]

I plan to write, produce and direct. I'm pretty good at talking to people and getting them excited about whatever I'm doing (big props to Dale Carnegie). As I've said elsewhere, I don't have to be good at any particular skill for making a movie, I just need to recognize talent and be able to get those skilled people to work for me because they want to.

 

[dlevanchuk]

lucky - i fully agree with you, no need to have any particular skill to make a good movie. But when there is a lack of skill, that void typical gets replaced with money.
Not goot in operating a camera? sure, u could find a hobbyist DoP, who has some small experience. Want the video to be top notch? Then typically you ll need to hire somebody, who does video as a profession. Same for sound, lights, actors, etc.

Not saying it is imposible for a novice person to make a good watchable movie, but im saying it would be hell lot more expensive.

again, this comes from my personal experience only, so i could be wrong.

lucky, how did your first movie look? did it come out as good as you invisioned?

 

[JoshL]

I will never understand why people say to accept that your first project will suck. I don't see why a highly motivated person couldn't pull together a fantastic movie on their first attempt. Sure, if you try to do everything yourself, an amateur is likely to make colossal mistakes, but gathering talented people together and letting them showcase their skills can be done on a first attempt. I say swing for the fences and go for it.

I think the point of the "your first will suck" mantra is not to expect to be awful, but to not be discouraged if you you are. There's a lot that you can only really learn by experience, which I think we would all agree with. And if you try, and completely fail because of all the things that you didn't know, the point is to learn from that and don't think you are an awful person/director/etc because of it.

I agree with you that you should swing for the fences. All the time. Do your work to the best of your abilities at the time. Keep doing that and your work will progressively get better. If you can see your improvement, there's nothing more exciting. Doubly so if you still enjoy your early work, even if it is not as good!

 

[rayw]

I say swing for the fences and go for it.

Swing for the feces?!
Wha... ?
Huh... ?
Oh!
F E N C E S!!!
Not F E C E S!!!
Okay, gotcha.
Cool.


Um... I liken it to being a good lover.
People are very... specific and... appreciative of someone who knows WTH they're doing in the love dept.
Any old idiot can just start banging out... projects. But that's wholly unsatisfactory for everyone.

No matter how many porn magazines you look at, no matter how many dirty conversations you have, no matter how many online porn videos you watch your first event is going to be... educational.
Not as good as later "projects".
In fact, the more "events" you actually participate in the better you get.

It would be unreasonable to EXPECT your cherry popper short to bring the world to it's knees.
You're not going to be Don Juan + Marquis de Sade + Russ Meyer all rolled up into one.
I promise.

Most likely it's gonna blow.
Especially in editing.
Likely because you didn't know WTH you were doing behind the camera.

So don't spend gobs of money on flying Adriana Lima out to the sticks to film your 10min epic about Saskatchewan beaver shaving.

+

+

=

(Howzat for confusing?! LOL!)

Movies are like sex. If you think you were good the first time, do it every day for 5 years and then compare notes.

CV, your a [expletive] genius!
Great minds think alike!
Obviously.

 

[dlevanchuk]

rayw, that was really weird and the best post on this topic i ve ever read.


personally, i dont think anyone with 0 experience, should do any sort of extensive planning for their first movie. Period.
write a very simple 2 page script on ANYTHING. good, bad, doesnt matter. Grab two friends, and make it next day. edit it. DONE.

it took two days to make first crap. But you will learn the flow. Next time u ll say "ok, now i want to try to shoot with some light."

write a script. shoot it next day. edit. done.

now you have two movies done in a week.
they ll be crappy, but thats experience.

some people should seriously stop treating their films as "i need to make the best f***king movie ever made" and be stuck in preproduction of their first film for many months.

sorry, it turned into a rant lol

 

[rayw]

rayw, that was really weird and the best post on this topic i ve ever read

Yeah, well...
I tend to favor non-standard educational approaches.

some people should seriously stop treating their films as "i need to make the best f***king movie ever made" and be stuck in preproduction of their first film for many months.

Bingo!
Right on.
100% dead on balls right approach.

Make a bunch of zero expense mistakes so that you don't start making $500 expense mistakes.

 

[voodoogmr]

I've been on the set of several films (other than my own). In my experience, you have to avoid trying to duplicate every single thing someone else does just because they say it's right. Sometimes, people have a glorified view of themselves and their abilities.

I worked with an experienced DP and his crew who treated me like an idiot when I would make any lighting suggestions. They just said "Just go pull cables and let the experts handle the lighting." Fine with me.

Well, the finished product looked like an amateurish mess. The lighting looked flat and boring, and it screamed "video", even though they were trying for a more film-like look.

I just shot something a few week ago and it turned out horribly. I wrote a worthless script and rushed through shooting. Even had room echo since by the time I did the main dialog (in a kitchen!), we were way behind schedule. That's not the right way to do it, so be glad you weren't on my set. You would have been learning what NOT to do! I'll be posting the short online this weekend, so you can see what a mess it is.

Just do your own thing and learn on your own. You certainly don't want to pick up bad habits from someone else.

 

[Lucky Hardwood]

lucky, how did your first movie look? did it come out as good as you invisioned?

I'll let you know after I finish paying for it.

 

[rayw]

I just shot something a few week ago and it turned out horribly. I wrote a worthless script and rushed through shooting. Even had room echo since by the time I did the main dialog (in a kitchen!), we were way behind schedule. That's not the right way to do it, so be glad you weren't on my set. You would have been learning what NOT to do! I'll be posting the short online this weekend, so you can see what a mess it is.

Just do your own thing and learn on your own. You certainly don't want to pick up bad habits from someone else.

Nah, nah, nah!
You're looking at it the wrong way.

I've been through a bazillion group participation education seminars and whatnot.
You ALWAYS volunteer to go last.
Why?

So that you can watch what the instructors flag the eager beavers on when they (inevitably) screw up, and you say to yourself "D@mnation! WTH was he/she thinking?! I better make sure I don't do THAT"!
Or you could say it out loud, but I advise against it.

Nah, watching other people screw up stuff is verrrrrry educational.

You don't pick up bad habits.
You identify cause and effect so that you can avoiiiiiiid bad habits.

And then you go and make your own mistakes, anyway, too.

 

[Gonzo_Entertainment]

"He's done shorts before and music videos, so he knows what's he's doing."

And that's where you are wrong. I know a local guy here who has made 4 or 5 features, REALLY bad horror movies he sells at conventions. He uses no lighting and an onboard microphone. He doesn't slate his shots, etc... guess what, his movies suck, they are terrible, awful, pretty much unwatchable. Experience CAN mean experienced in doing everything the wrong way and not caring that you wind up with a shitty result.

 

[voodoogmr]

Nah, watching other people screw up stuff is verrrrrry educational.

You don't pick up bad habits.
You identify cause and effect so that you can avoiiiiiiid bad habits.

This is certainly true as long as you have enough of an understanding of the filmmaking process to even recognize the mistakes and bad habits that others make. Some may be subtle, or some may be obvious like this one:

On one of the first shoots I was ever on, the DP stuck a 650w light on a stand, and then laid the stand horizontally across some rafters in the ceiling and wedged the tips of the legs in a corner to keep the head balanced, with nothing but gravity holding it in place. And it was hanging right over the actor's head. When I asked him if that was safe, he said "Oh yeah, we do this all the time. It's a well-known trick to use when you don't have a boom arm." Umm, really? That's a technique I am certainly glad I didn't pick up!

 

[rayw]

DP stuck a 650w light on a stand, and then laid the stand horizontally across some rafters in the ceiling and wedged the tips of the legs in a corner to keep the head balanced, with nothing but gravity holding it in place. And it was hanging right over the actor's head.

HOE-LEE MOLEY!
Dude.
Duct tape.
At least a foot of it.
Preferably two.
Something.
Anything.

Incredible.
Maybe the actor owed him money or something.

Crazy people.

 

[gorillaonabike]

rayw, that was really weird and the best post on this topic i ve ever read.


personally, i dont think anyone with 0 experience, should do any sort of extensive planning for their first movie. Period.
write a very simple 2 page script on ANYTHING. good, bad, doesnt matter. Grab two friends, and make it next day. edit it. DONE.

it took two days to make first crap. But you will learn the flow. Next time u ll say "ok, now i want to try to shoot with some light."

write a script. shoot it next day. edit. done.

now you have two movies done in a week.
they ll be crappy, but thats experience.

some people should seriously stop treating their films as "i need to make the best f***king movie ever made" and be stuck in preproduction of their first film for many months.

sorry, it turned into a rant lol

Well I disagree. Just shot most of my first short and if anything, a little more planning would have been better. There was one thing we should've tried which would've saved huge hassles. Now we know what it is but we only discovered this halfway through the shoot... Hindsight is a cruel mistress.

It will be up to the editor to save it all!