HVX200 vs HVX200A / HPX170

L

Legion

I've been looking around for a used HVX or HPX. For all the sales I've found there seems to be a pattern. All the prices are between $2200 - $3000. But the choice is usually between an original HVX200 with a good set of accessories (usually a couple P2 cards, 3 - 5 batteries, a random lens adapter of some sort, maybe a card reader) or an HVX200A/HPX170 but very few accessories, at best a single P2 card and maybe an extra battery.

I know the only real difference is that the 200A/170 have an extra half stop of light sensitivity. Since I've never used a real video camera before, I'm wondering which is the better deal?

Do I pay the same or a little more to get the better light sensitivity, or do I take a less sensitive camera with more accessories?
 
Sort by date Sort by votes
It looks to me like there's a fair bit more difference than just the extra half stop. This is just after reading some of the details on Amazon.

The AG-HVX200 records HD, either 1080i or 720p
Click to expand...

The HPX170 has two P2 card slots and records in 20 HD and SD formats - from 1080i, 1080p, 720p to 480i.
Click to expand...

Based on the AG-HVX200 series, the lighter HPX170 is fully solid state (no DV mechanism), andcomes with a host of enhancements including a new 1/3" progressive 3-CCD imager system, wider Leica Dicomar 13X lens, an HD-SDI interface, metadata input and management, and a 5-year limited warranty (with registration).
Click to expand...

Looks to me like the only reason to get the HPX is if you wanted to record something in SD, but who uses that anymore? There's also whether or not you really want to use DV.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
I don't get the whole DSLR movement for video. Isn't the form factor obstructive? You always have to dig through a bunch of menus instead of the button being right there. You need a special attachment for XLR.

I just have trouble accepting a DSLR which for my whole life meant still photo.

Can you give me a quick comparison of what it's like shooting on DSLR vs the 200A?
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Legion said:
I don't get the whole DSLR movement for video. Isn't the form factor obstructive? You always have to dig through a bunch of menus instead of the button being right there. You need a special attachment for XLR.

I just have trouble accepting a DSLR which for my whole life meant still photo.

Can you give me a quick comparison of what it's like shooting on DSLR vs the 200A?
Click to expand...

Well, we shoot narrative films and music videos (if I shot a lot of events a video cam would be more attractive),

When we used the HVX200A we used an adapter to be able to use still lenses (for DOF reasons), so right there no difference in form factor except that using the adapter costs you about 1 stop of light.

Different DSLRs are different. On the 5D2 I rarely have to go into a menu while shooting. We use all manual lenses, so the aperture is on the lens. The shutter speed (which we never touch anyway) is controlled via a scroll wheel on top of the camera. The ISO is controlled by pushing a button the using the scroll wheel. The ISO is controlled via a button then a scroll wheel. The "Picture Style" is controlled via a button then a scroll wheel, same for white balance. So there I have changed every setting I would ever want to change while shooting without ever having to go into the menus.

We record separate sound, always, ALWAYS, so the camera's audio features are just there for a reference track. It's OK that they are really crappy.

As far as the aesthetics of the image, the 5D2 blows it away. Watched one of my old films back to back with a new one about a month ago (at a screening) the difference was pretty stark.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Gonzo_Entertainment said:
They're expensive as hell and you need a special reader, BUT they do perform well in my experience.
Click to expand...

P2 will do the job well, to be sure, but they're also budget-busters.

A 16GB Panasonic P2 card costs $399. A 16GB Sandisk Class 10 SDHC card can be had for under $20.

It just doesn't make sense to recommend a format like that to someone, unless they've got piles of money they're looking to burn. It's not cost effective, I guess is my point. :D

Going by the price range stated in the OP, I'd be looking at something like the Canon XF100 or the upcoming Sony NEX-VG30.

...Unless he's willing to reconsider a DSLR. I shoot on a D7000 now, and have used Canons in the past. Record your audio separately (H4n, or something similar) and you can get great video quality for much less than setting up a P2 system.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Some good points raised, for sure.

Gonzo: After your initial post I read this article about using DSLRs for video: DSLR for Film

One thing that has always given me concern with CMOS sensors is CMOS wobble. I think in the article they call it Rolling Shutter. It affects video cameras as well, like the Sony PMW line. Has this been a problem for you?

Another thing the article brought up was strange artifacting such as moire patterns and jagged edges. Stuck pixels were also brought up as a possible issue.

I already have an H4N and a bunch of mics, so I guess I'm already set up for separate audio recording.

One of the things that led me to the HVX/HPX was the cinematic look from the gamma settings the camera has, as well as 24P. Obviously the DSLR wins for things like Depth of Field and interchangeable lenses, without expensive adapters like the Red Rock and without losing a lot of light.

So yeah, Rolling Shutter and Artifacting, how do you deal with these?
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
They are made to be a bigger issue than they are (aliasing and moire). Sometimes you'll get a moire pattern on something like window blinds or a brick wall. but generally a slight change of focus makes it go away (slight softening). I virtually never run into aliasing except in shots where you have things like an exterior with a bunch of phone wires (for example). It's a flaw, but a small one really.

Same with rolling shutter. Don't whip pan... It's really as simple as that. As long as camera movement is deliberate and controlled it really doesn't happen.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Gonzo_Entertainment said:
They are made to be a bigger issue than they are (aliasing and moire). Sometimes you'll get a moire pattern on something like window blinds or a brick wall. but generally a slight change of focus makes it go away (slight softening). I virtually never run into aliasing except in shots where you have things like an exterior with a bunch of phone wires (for example). It's a flaw, but a small one really.

Same with rolling shutter. Don't whip pan... It's really as simple as that. As long as camera movement is deliberate and controlled it really doesn't happen.
Click to expand...

I couldn't have said it better!

As far as the "cinematic look" goes, you can get it from any of the cameras mentioned... It's mostly in the lighting and the grade anyway. ;)
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
What about overheating? I've read that if you shoot continuously the sensor can heat up and get noisy, and if it gets hot enough the camera may turn itself off. The example given in the article was an interview with the camera recording the person's response.

Have you had any issues with overheating?
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Legion said:
What about overheating? I've read that if you shoot continuously the sensor can heat up and get noisy, and if it gets hot enough the camera may turn itself off. The example given in the article was an interview with the camera recording the person's response.

Have you had any issues with overheating?
Click to expand...

Never, BUT as I said I shoot narrative films and music videos. For the camera to run over 5 minutes continuously would be very rare. The 7D is more prone than the 5D and if you're shooting til the 12 minute max, starting another clip, shooting to the 12 minute max, starting another clip... for an hour or so don't doubt it might overheat. In other words another place where for event shooting you might be better off with a video cam.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Well you've definitely got me leaning towards a 5D Mark II now. In my area (Toronto), they're going used for about $1700, new for $2000 (body only).

Just so I'm sure I'm not forgetting anything, what am I looking at for a basic set of accessories to get started? I'm ok with a single lens for now as I'll need a month or so just to learn how to use it.

50mm lens
Tripod
Field Recorder (audio)
Mic
Field Monitor
CF Card(s)

Anything else I'd need right away? Is a follow focus essential?
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
It's great that you've opened your eyes to shooting video on DSLR. It really is the best poor-man's camera, for narrative work.

Before you drop your dollars, look into the T3i or the GH2. The amount of money you'll save can be spent on quality lenses, and that's kinda the whole point of using one of these cameras.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
The T3i is a great camera, and will save you some money toward glass, but there is definitely something about the sensor in the 5DmkII that the T3i can't touch. It has a certain look that smaller sensors can't match, which is why it's been the "go to" DSLR for video.

That said, I've been perfectly happy with my previous T2i, and my current D7000, both crop sensor cams. But if you find a 5DmkII for $1500 or so, I'd go with that. :D

As for the overheating question, I only overheated my T2i once. Shooting outside in full sunlight, 95 degree/80 percent humidity day, 60p, repeated back to back 12 minute clips. It never shut down, and the image did not degrade. Just a warning icon, and I turned it off for a few minutes to cool. Not really a problem.

Now for accessories. Don't forget extra batteries!! That should be your first accessory purchase.

A follow focus is nice, but on a budget you can get by without one, at least if you have steady hands. Although I do really like my Redrock Micro Captain Stubling... :D

The 50mm lens is a great standard focal length, although I often find myself shooting on a wider lens. (24mm usually, and sometimes wider)
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
I actually don't use my follow focus that much. There are times when having a 1st AC pull focus for you using the FF is almost essential to getting the shot you want, but 80% of the time we don't even mount it on the rig. I just reach around and use the original follow focus, my hand.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
I use the 503 HDV with the 055Xprob legs. bought it as a package for about $500. That being said, it's a marginal head. It's OK, but nothing to write home about and need to convert to a ball head ASAP as leveling legs is 27 levels of suck.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top