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How realistic should a super dark thriller be?

H

harmonica44

I'm writing a screenplay which I wanna make into my first film in time. It's an action film and it's about as dark as United 93. The thing is, since it's low budget and my first, I don't want to have a lot of characters. The main character is a cop trying to track down terrorists, who are committing attacks around the city. But during the action scenes I wanna have him work mostly alone, without any back up. Because of the low budget of course.

How do I write it so that it's believable without back up though? Especially since he's on the trail of the terrorists that are bringing the city to it's knees, you think any other cops would wanna lend a hand. But I have to write so that they are often unavailable. Accept for the climax where a big police showdown happens with some surprise twists. But for the other action scenes, I only want the main character. So when I have a story that's very dark and tragic, how realistic would I have to write this plot convenience? Thanks.
 
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harmonica44 said:
Well yeah for most thrillers that can work, but since I'm doing a really dark one (no I'm not exaggerating), I feel that perhaps it should take place in the real world more than the average thriller. I can set it in a the more fake movie world, if that's okay, but I don't want the dark material to come off as out of place otherwise.
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You know, there is such a thing as taking movies too seriously. A dark thriller will never be confused with Citizen Kane.

Have fun with it or your audience never will. George Lucas became so tired of trying to do what you are trying to do he created a whole new reality that could be molded and manipulated with the same detail that you aspire.

It's like math. When you can't get the answer that you want, change the variables.
 
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Rayw, awesome, awesome chart. That is really going to be boon in my scriptwriting process!

Harmonica44, sounds like you've got a great idea for a script. When I was writing my second novel, I also had a great theme, fantastic character arcs, etc. I simply wrote the damn thing how I wanted, almost stream-of-consciousness style, without any fact-checking or editing, and got a rough draft out. Then I went back and taped up some of the seams, and then found the places that needed complete rewriting to maintain credibility. Although my story was more of an espionage comedy (although still dealing with quite dark subject matter), what you're talking about is an integral part of the writing process. Once you've got everything WRITTEN - and I don't mean planned out on a whiteboard, I mean WRITTEN in screenplay form - then you go back and repair. And be absolutely prepared to delete/rewrite entire scenes because they stretch the imagination a bit too far. Best of luck!
 
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You should check out from your local library the movie SALT, yep, with Angelina Jolie in it.
Watch it.
Then goto its wikipage and read the history of its production.
Then re-watch the film with the director commentary turned on.

Note the considerable changes in the script the screenplay writer endured while keeping in mind it was already "studio approved".


LastChancey said:
Rayw, awesome, awesome chart. That is really going to be boon in my scriptwriting process!
Click to expand...
Rockin'.
Have fun with it, just don't poke yerr eye out. ;)
 
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Your original question was, "How realistic should a super dark thriller be?" The answer is as realistic as it needs to be to support your story. You clearly have worked out your story and have shared elements causing you problems. The solutions people have offered are based on rather limited information. For some it feels like there is this "yes but ..." going on.

It's a movie telling a story which means some elements of reality are glossed over, always. A motivation for most military and paramilitary personnel (of which sworn law enforcement agents are a part) is camraderie. If his partner was killed/compromised and he was suspended as part of the investigation, he may be motivated to pursue the attacker (a vengeance motive). People accept that without much explanation.

As for a totally bizarre scenario where the police don't respond to racing cars, there are two choices. Here, you either ask the audience to suspend belief or you continue to work to find a creative explanation based on other pieces of the story to which we aren't privvy. You either shift reality to fit the story or shift the story to fit reality, whichever is easier.

There are some inner city areas (parts of Chicago and LA) where police and rescue workers simply will not go because they will be shot at by snipers--even ambulance workers. A race through that kind of area ("The Projects") may draw gang attention and fire, but the police will not be around. Even so, that would need to be made clear before the chase scene. And for some audiences, they would find it hard to believe that this is a reality in certain gang infested areas.

So in the end, the question is "How much reality is needed to tell this story and get the desired effect?" It sounds like an interesting thriller.
 
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harmonica44 said:
I'm writing a screenplay which I wanna make into my first film in time. It's an action film and it's about as dark as United 93. The thing is, since it's low budget and my first, I don't want to have a lot of characters. The main character is a cop trying to track down terrorists, who are committing attacks around the city. But during the action scenes I wanna have him work mostly alone, without any back up. Because of the low budget of course.

How do I write it so that it's believable without back up though? Especially since he's on the trail of the terrorists that are bringing the city to it's knees, you think any other cops would wanna lend a hand. But I have to write so that they are often unavailable. Accept for the climax where a big police showdown happens with some surprise twists. But for the other action scenes, I only want the main character. So when I have a story that's very dark and tragic, how realistic would I have to write this plot convenience? Thanks.
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Number one: your story doesn't sound low budget to me. I know low budget can mean anything below $20m but I'm presuming you're aiming at Reservoir Dogs low budget (less than $1m?). But the words 'big police showdown' do not match with low budget to me.

For minimal locations and characters, looks at Polanski's Knife in Water, Wachowski's first feature Bound, Coens' Blood Simple etc.

As soon as you have helicopters or terrorist showdowns, things start getting very expensive.

As far as realism is concerned - its about 'suspension of disbelief'. No film is ever 'realistic', even saving Private Ryan - which was supposed to a realistic portrayal of Normandy Landings, has a contrived storyline (ie: not realistic, but the story was written well enough that people would suspend their disbelief).

As a previous poster has said, there are many ways to contrive for your hero to go alone. Look at films like The Pledge, where the police are convinced they have the murderer so our retired cop is forced to go it alone. The film Witness, where the cops are corrupt. etc. there are many films like this. Maybe your hero has to work undercover (another well used scenario)
 
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Well by low budget I mean microbudget, of around $50-75000 at the most. I was told by some people in the business I could have a couple of decent action scenes with that budget as long as I played around with a lot of of camera tricks, rather than actually show a lot of destruction. The most expensive would be the car chase I had in mind, but the showdown at the end, shouldn't be too expensive, as it takes place mostly in and around a building, and doesn't involve much destruction, other than gunshots, and breaking down doors. But the low budget is also a reason why I want a plot with no helicopters, where there would normally be some. But perhaps I could have it so the chopper is not actually shown, unless that is really cheap.
 
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rayw said:
You should check out from your local library the movie SALT, yep, with Angelina Jolie in it.
Watch it.
Then goto its wikipage and read the history of its production.
Then re-watch the film with the director commentary turned on.

Note the considerable changes in the script the screenplay writer endured while keeping in mind it was already "studio approved".



Rockin'.
Have fun with it, just don't poke yerr eye out. ;)
Click to expand...

Well personally I thought Salt was one of the most illogical stories ever made, and had some huge plot holes. Not that that's bad, but I feel that a story like mine, which is much darker, might want to be a little more realistic in story. But if a dark thriller can go as far as Salt then that's okay. I just haven't seen any that have. But one user mentioned Saving Private Ryan, so I guess I may be taking total plot realism too seriously.
 
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harmonica44 said:
But the low budget is also a reason why I want a plot with no helicopters, where there would normally be some. But perhaps I could have it so the chopper is not actually shown, unless that is really cheap.
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Maybe some CGI-Models. If you don't show them too long and too close, it could work.
Or find a way to film a helicopter in the sky. Just some neutral footage, that can be put into the movie.
Then you just add the choppers sound and the pilots voice (something like "we lost them" or whatever).

That should do the trick, unless you want the choppers to shoot with a gattling gun on your actors ;)
 
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FantasySciFi said:
Your original question was, "How realistic should a super dark thriller be?" The answer is as realistic as it needs to be to support your story. You clearly have worked out your story and have shared elements causing you problems. The solutions people have offered are based on rather limited information. For some it feels like there is this "yes but ..." going on.

It's a movie telling a story which means some elements of reality are glossed over, always. A motivation for most military and paramilitary personnel (of which sworn law enforcement agents are a part) is camraderie. If his partner was killed/compromised and he was suspended as part of the investigation, he may be motivated to pursue the attacker (a vengeance motive). People accept that without much explanation.

As for a totally bizarre scenario where the police don't respond to racing cars, there are two choices. Here, you either ask the audience to suspend belief or you continue to work to find a creative explanation based on other pieces of the story to which we aren't privvy. You either shift reality to fit the story or shift the story to fit reality, whichever is easier.

There are some inner city areas (parts of Chicago and LA) where police and rescue workers simply will not go because they will be shot at by snipers--even ambulance workers. A race through that kind of area ("The Projects") may draw gang attention and fire, but the police will not be around. Even so, that would need to be made clear before the chase scene. And for some audiences, they would find it hard to believe that this is a reality in certain gang infested areas.

So in the end, the question is "How much reality is needed to tell this story and get the desired effect?" It sounds like an interesting thriller.
Click to expand...

I could use this explanation, but perhaps it could be explained after the chase, as to why he did not get any assistance. I was thinking that maybe their was some police function that a lot of officers were attending which is why there was no back up available, but you still think there would be. Perhaps the gang thing works better. I haven't decided on which city to set it in. I will be filming in Saskatoon, Canada, where I live, but the story will take place in Montreal I think, for reasons that the motives of the terrorist group. However, I don't think Montreal has a rule that rescue workers are not allowed to go into certain parts of town, because of gangs.

The vengeance/camraderie thing does come into play, but not until the last third. Even if he was suspended before that, I feel that if he called to say he knows where the terrorists are going to be, it seems the police would listen to a suspended officer, rather than ignore him and loose capturing the threat all together. I could write it so that they just hang up on him, but would they, if it meant capturing the terrorists possibly?
 
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Chicken Joe said:
Maybe some CGI-Models. If you don't show them too long and too close, it could work.
Or find a way to film a helicopter in the sky. Just some neutral footage, that can be put into the movie.
Then you just add the choppers sound and the pilots voice (something like "we lost them" or whatever).

That should do the trick, unless you want the choppers to shoot with a gattling gun on your actors ;)
Click to expand...

No I don't need the choppers to engage in battle. It's just there is a scene where suspects are being chased, and normally there would be a chopper out looking for him, aside from just officers on the ground. I was thinking of shooting chopper footage or CGI, but if I shoot a real chopper, it would be from a bad lower view. I was thinking of CGI but I might wanna use my CGI budget for other parts of the car chase. I may have a chopper, but that one will definitely be decided after everything else is shot. Otherwise I might have the police communicate with one that is unseen, or not have one without explanation, if that's an okay idea.
 
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harmonica44 said:
Well personally I thought Salt was one of the most illogical stories ever made, and had some huge plot holes. Not that that's bad, but I feel that a story like mine, which is much darker, might want to be a little more realistic in story. But if a dark thriller can go as far as Salt then that's okay. I just haven't seen any that have. But one user mentioned Saving Private Ryan, so I guess I may be taking total plot realism too seriously.
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Either you missed my point or I failed to communicate it.

The movie itself and it's story or whatever are beside the point.
Product appreciation is irrelevant.
Understanding the massive changes by professionals to a professional script and story due to various reasons in context to the goal you're working towards are what make this homework.
 
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There is one scenario I'm still stumped on. How is it that the cop will have no back up in a terrorist hostage crisis? I mean is it feasible for a real serious movie, when only one cop has to act as hostage negotiator, one man SWAT team, and tactical action decision maker, with no back up or superiors to wait on? I could have it all take place in 10 minutes before back up arrived I guess but then that's rushing the whole scenario, since most terrorists would probably give more than a 10 minute deadline for a demand to be met, when they know that 10 minutes isn't near long enough. Why threaten to kill hostages and yourself if the demands are impossible to meet?
 
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Have you seen any 24? Jack's always stuck on his own for a variety of insane reasons:

1) He's undercover. Backup would blow his cover.
2) The terrorists have a grudge against him. If he calls for backup, they'll execute his daughter.
3) In order to catch the bad guys, he has to do something that his superiors will never approve of (torture, killing civilians, declaring war on China, etc). He knows backup would be denied.
4) He's lost the trust of his superiors, or he's already on the run from his superiors for doing something illegal in an attempt to stop the bad guys.
5) Backup is intercepted/taken out by well-prepared terrorists.
6) The closest police headquarters have been destroyed by terrorists.

Serious or not, for an action movie you have to allow at least some suspension of disbelief. I'm sure a cop's job isn't half as exciting as the movies make out, even the more realistic ones.
 
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Well the scenario I described above happens in the opening, and the cop has had no time for any of those reasons to happen yet. His only motivation is stopping the threat. But I will think of something.
 
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Okay I thought of some reasons why the main cop character can't get back up, like he lost his badge perhaps like one of you suggested. However even if he lost his badge he could still call the cops pretending to be a nobody, reporting a crime, in order to get the police to come to where he is and take down the villains. So I need a reason why he doesn't just do that? Even if he's lost the trust of his superiors, there is still calling 911 and reporting.
 
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harmonica44,

Make it as dark as possible! Make it as realistic as you can! The more the protagonist has to loose, the more the excitement by your audience. Be visual when writing! Keep dialogue as accurate as if you just heard it at the corner restaurant or bar. Keep the story moving. Movie making is a business. SO entertain. Worry about plot holes in final drafts.

When you get down to the final draft -- let me know, will help if I can.
 
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