How many stages of screenwriting?

[gorillaonabike]

So... I want to learn to direct feature films so have written a feature and will shoot it. Have written a couple of screenplays and one in particular, the easiest one to shoot, I am going forward with. It is a gritty, British drama set in a youth club overseen by a youth worker who gets out of her depth with the local police and criminals.

I see screenwriting in three stages, with multiple re-writes within each stage as well as bringing in an external expert and other opinions. In general, I lack trust in friends and family (well, I don't have family so friends will have to do) as they are all generally positive.

First stage: Write the damn thing and get it to an OK stage
Second stage: All plot holes removed, make it 'readable' albeit a little long.
Third and final stage: Cutting back and refining, honing the style, making it absolutely right for shooting.

What stages of screenplay development do you have? What do you do within the process around this?

 

[Sweetie]

I'm not very good at the writing process, but I'm ok at the rewriting stages, so take this with a grain of salt.

Everyone has their own process.

1. Planning, including marketability
2. Writing
3. Feedback / Pitch (if successful go to 5)
4. Rewriting (Go Back to 3)
5. Approval / Make / Go back to 1 on a new project.

One thing that I find most important is finding people who A). Their feedback is worth listening to and B). Give you real honest feedback. It's important that you don't surround yourself with people who tell you that you're doing a great job when you're sucking. Also getting feedback on multiple perspectives ie producer, director, editor, actor, marketing etc. I find focusing on feedback with writers, can skew the results. On the opposite end of the spectrum, you don't want to surround yourself with negative Nellis. Strive for a good balance.

 

[Cracker Funk]

The 5 Stages of Screenwriting:

1. Elation -- The screenwriter has just gotten a new idea for a screenplay, and it's the most genius idea EVER! Everyone is going to love this movie, and the screenwriter is convinced that they will become rich and famous.

2. The Pendulum Swings -- After having put a good amount of time and energy into their screenplay, the screenwriter has begun to question their original idea. Maybe it's not such a good idea after all. The screenwriter begins to feel like a fraud.

3. Stasis -- The screenwriter wanders between all of the different projects/ideas in their head, finding it incredibly difficult to focus their attention on any of of them.

4. Adaptation -- The screenwriter remembers why they liked this story in the first place, and figures out a new angle or twist that will vastly improve the story. This stage normally happens while taking a poop.

5. Acceptance -- After much more work, the screenwriter realizes that their story will never be perfect, for in fact there is no such thing. But enough revisions have been made, enough opinions have been sought out from people's whose opinions that they trust, that they can finally put the pen down, knowing that the director is going to make a completely different movie than what they envision anyway.

 

[Cracker Funk]

Okay, for a more serious answer, having done this before and looked back to analyze the results, I think the most important stage is revision. Don't rush it. Allow the revision process as much time as it needs. At least that's how I feel like I personally need to move forward on my 2nd feature.

Depending on the subject-matter, I also think you should devote a good deal of time to research. That's the stage I'm in right now. On my first movie, I intentionally chose a subject matter that would allow me to entirely skip this step, because my first feature did not have financial gain as any type of priority.

This second time around, profit is goal #1, and so the very concept of the movie has been conceived with that goal in mind. On my first feature, I chose to "write what I know". On this next one, there are some elements that I know nothing about. I can't just fake it, especially since, as part of my marketing plan, I'm intentionally seeking out a niche audience, a group of people who I am not part of. If I want them to purchase tickets, I need them to feel like this movie is coming from an informed place; I need them to feel like the people who made this movie "get it". That, of course, requires a great deal of research.

The stages of screenwriting vary wildly, from person to person. Seeing as how I'm working on only my second feature, I'm still figuring it out, obviously. I don't yet know what process is best for me.

As I'm doing my research, I find it impossible to not form a rough outline of the story in my head. I find it impossible to not imagine specific beats. What is going to happen at the Magical Midpoint? What is happening during the Dark Night of the Soul? What happens when our hero Rallies the Troops? All of this is bouncing around my head while researching what characteristics and life-histories our characters might have.

And so, right now I'm basically in a mixed research/outlining stage, though the outlining is only in my head. At some point, I'll either move onto either a vomit draft or an organized outline (most likely via The Board).

I've never written a vomit draft for a feature, and I kinda like the idea of it, so I'm leaning towards doing that, and then moving on to a an organized outline (The Board). Once I've got that in place, the story is basically written, and now I'm really just writing dialog and adding finer touches.

Then I'll seek opinions from people whose opinions I've grown to trust. Revise. Seek opinions on the revision. Revise. Keep on doing this until I'm happy enough with it. No deadline.

I didn't mean to make this post about me, by the way, it's just that because of the fact that I think the screenwriting process is so personal, I think you have to figure out what works for you, partially by following the advice of others, as well as using good-ol' trial and error. Which means I'm not willing to state any one method that will work for all; I can only speak to the one that works for me.

Best wishes!

 

[Guanto]

So... I want to learn to direct feature films so have written a feature and will shoot it.

Assuming I am understanding your post here, that you have no aspirations for this project beyond making it yourself. Seeing it all the way through from A to B by your lonesome, just like like Baron Von F and his beloved creature, sans any Igor's foolhardy enough to follow you into the abyss, I'll rattle off a bit...

So it has to be mentioned that you're going to have 9 billion things to stress and get sorted, even at the smallest scale, if you want to do this with the illusion of good production value. It seems for now, to grasp this, you have boiled it all down into (a)write a screenplay and (b)shoot it. Which is fine for focus, but just be aware 'tis but a couple pieces in the puzzle, if you aren't already.

So these 3 stages you outlined are all kind of one conglomeration. Sadly I don't think it will (should) unfold neatly like this. For example you really should be very conscious of, if not implementing, your stage 3 as you start on your stage 1. If it helps for you to separate/label them great, but really its one phase with all the things going on you described, that could last months, or years if you're exceptionally v̶i̶s̶i̶o̶n̶a̶r̶y̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶p̶a̶r̶t̶i̶c̶u̶l̶a̶r̶ psycho.

Make sure you are only writing to what you can pull off. Really look at your locations, wardrobes, props and whammy's to make sure they are all doable by you and your resources in your accessible locations. And I don't mean just leave out the explosions and spaceships, I also mean deceptively difficult big budget things like a character crying. Leave out anything that could potentially let people see behind your curtain. Doesn't mean this has to be another godforsaken 2 hour movie of people talking in a coffee shop either, its a time to pull in favors... friends with cool houses, or even just rooms, cars, fur coats etc, let alone a buddy that owns a convenience store... or boat. Write to what you have.

An additional, very powerful OFT MISSED, "phase" you will want to include for determining screenplay shaping and revising is BLOCKING. Take your screenplay once you think its tight (it's not, but when you think it is) and get together with anyone to go through the motions. If it can be your cast, great, If your cast are actors, look out now. But just running lines and blocking shots with a couple friends will reveal so much your mind will be blown, your hand with the red pen in it will cramp within the first hour. Things like "Wait, how can I slurp the goulash if I still have the cigarillo in my mouth?", "If my character is looking out the window across the room then how do I know my manservant hung his Opera coat by the front door in order for me to deliver the line 'Wow you've lost a few pounds, hey wait a second is that Himalayan sea salt on your epaulette?'" or "How do I empty the clip from my Mauser C96 into the bad guy if it's still in my holster around the bed post... in Morgan le Fay's room... on the other side of town."

A word of caution, from experience. I encourage you to be extremely selective with who you choose to take technical (even creative to some extant) direction from. A blowhard fronting is actually far more detrimental to your project than your Great Aunt Juniper telling you she loves your screenplay. Misinformation you catch in the wind and really take to heart and act upon can spiral, derail and just put a serious whooping on your goals. So tread lightly. I got stung myself a few times many many moons ago, shit set me back.

One last thing worth noting. A big, dreaded, piece of the puzzle you may be missing, right inline with your topic, is the Shooting Script. Once you have made your spec as lean and mean as possible (way past spelling, grammar and format now) - with a strong focus on "Screenplay is story optimized for efficiency" - then- it is time to start on the next hellacious soul sucking endeavor... the Shooting Script. This is your BLUE PRINT to actually make this thing dance about on an illuminated viewing device, and it is an elusive and esoteric craft all unto itself. Without it you are up an amateur creek without a paddle. A paddle that, unlike explosions and crying actresses, you could have made by yourself within your means if you put in the work. And that's a whole 'notha topic.

 

[Cracker Funk]

Thanks for the pep-talk, Guanto! Aspiring filmmakers should feel aspired after reading this.

 

[Guanto]

Thanks for the pep-talk, Guanto! Aspiring filmmakers should feel aspired after reading this.

Or perspired.

 

[gorillaonabike]

Realised screenwriters write much longer posts than camera people. Unsurprising, now I think about it...

Thanks, very useful and a few, random notes:

1. I have script consultants for the three different stages. Each is very different for different purposes so the 'first stage' guy thinks I'm an absolute moron because I send him these early-stage pieces of junk. He never gets to see the final versions so I'm sure he thinks I'm a complete idiot...
2. When I look at a final draft, that is 'my' shooting script.
3. For advice, I always listen to the feelings and emotions of that person but tend to ignore their ideas. Their emotional state is the key indicator to me where I should move my screenplay (plus plotholes).
4. Research: Zero. I do no research because I only write about stuff I really know or one of the group knows really well. So drugs, getting arrested, immigrants, London, death, violence, Marseille etc... are all in my sphere. Reading this back makes me a little concerned...

Anyhow, screenwriting is amazing in that I am consistently told I have good stories but am working on the craft around telling them. I really enjoy the process and learning about it so genuinely interested in knowing what you do.

What else do you focus on from a 'process' perspective?

 

[Guanto]

1. I have script consultants for the three different stages.

The existence of 3 separate 'scipt consultants' specialized in 3 stages that you made up is fascinating to me. I could see a guy that is better at rewrites (AKA: The Fixer) or doesn't want to be bothered with half-baked material or something but other than that any "spec script" reader is always looking for all problems/issues from go because you can't help yourself/turn it off. Maybe you're saying that you just have some friends that you send different things to at different times or something? Like one guy digs or hates your general concept, another guy just fixes spelling mistakes and then you send it to a guy who is familiar with screenplay formatting to start the real work?. Something like that maybe?

2. When I look at a final draft, that is 'my' shooting script.

Not good. Pulse is 40. Blood pressure 80/50. His GCS is six. -- *picks up defibrillator paddles* *a nurse greases them* -- Clear!

Reading this back makes me a little concerned...

LOL.

Anyhow, screenwriting is amazing in that I am consistently told I have good stories but am working on the craft around telling them.

Well keep in mind the mysteries and confines of screenwriting isn't for everyone, and the "Story By" credit is distinct and respectable (and equally as lucrative if it ever comes to that). Especially if it's hindering your end goal in any way.

 

[gorillaonabike]

Assuming I am understanding your post here, that you have no aspirations for this project beyond making it yourself. Seeing it all the way through from A to B by your lonesome, just like like Baron Von F and his beloved creature, sans any Igor's foolhardy enough to follow you into the abyss, I'll rattle off a bit...

So it has to be mentioned that you're going to have 9 billion things to stress and get sorted, even at the smallest scale, if you want to do this with the illusion of good production value. It seems for now, to grasp this, you have boiled it all down into (a)write a screenplay and (b)shoot it. Which is fine for focus, but just be aware 'tis but a couple pieces in the puzzle, if you aren't already.

So these 3 stages you outlined are all kind of one conglomeration. Sadly I don't think it will (should) unfold neatly like this. For example you really should be very conscious of, if not implementing, your stage 3 as you start on your stage 1. If it helps for you to separate/label them great, but really its one phase with all the things going on you described, that could last months, or years if you're exceptionally v̶i̶s̶i̶o̶n̶a̶r̶y̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶p̶a̶r̶t̶i̶c̶u̶l̶a̶r̶ psycho.

Make sure you are only writing to what you can pull off. Really look at your locations, wardrobes, props and whammy's to make sure they are all doable by you and your resources in your accessible locations. And I don't mean just leave out the explosions and spaceships, I also mean deceptively difficult big budget things like a character crying. Leave out anything that could potentially let people see behind your curtain. Doesn't mean this has to be another godforsaken 2 hour movie of people talking in a coffee shop either, its a time to pull in favors... friends with cool houses, or even just rooms, cars, fur coats etc, let alone a buddy that owns a convenience store... or boat. Write to what you have.

An additional, very powerful OFT MISSED, "phase" you will want to include for determining screenplay shaping and revising is BLOCKING. Take your screenplay once you think its tight (it's not, but when you think it is) and get together with anyone to go through the motions. If it can be your cast, great, If your cast are actors, look out now. But just running lines and blocking shots with a couple friends will reveal so much your mind will be blown, your hand with the red pen in it will cramp within the first hour. Things like "Wait, how can I slurp the goulash if I still have the cigarillo in my mouth?", "If my character is looking out the window across the room then how do I know my manservant hung his Opera coat by the front door in order for me to deliver the line 'Wow you've lost a few pounds, hey wait a second is that Himalayan sea salt on your epaulette?'" or "How do I empty the clip from my Mauser C96 into the bad guy if it's still in my holster around the bed post... in Morgan le Fay's room... on the other side of town."

A word of caution, from experience. I encourage you to be extremely selective with who you choose to take technical (even creative to some extant) direction from. A blowhard fronting is actually far more detrimental to your project than your Great Aunt Juniper telling you she loves your screenplay. Misinformation you catch in the wind and really take to heart and act upon can spiral, derail and just put a serious whooping on your goals. So tread lightly. I got stung myself a few times many many moons ago, shit set me back.

One last thing worth noting. A big, dreaded, piece of the puzzle you may be missing, right inline with your topic, is the Shooting Script. Once you have made your spec as lean and mean as possible (way past spelling, grammar and format now) - with a strong focus on "Screenplay is story optimized for efficiency" - then- it is time to start on the next hellacious soul sucking endeavor... the Shooting Script. This is your BLUE PRINT to actually make this thing dance about on an illuminated viewing device, and it is an elusive and esoteric craft all unto itself. Without it you are up an amateur creek without a paddle. A paddle that, unlike explosions and crying actresses, you could have made by yourself within your means if you put in the work. And that's a whole 'notha topic.

Just as a note... blocking, locations etc... are all part of what I've done. Been fortunate to have shorts in festivals in London (London Independent), Toronto (the horror one, 'After Dark') etc... plus been paid for music vids etc... so hopefully might know a couple of things.

And have, potentially two features to shoot next year, maybe even a third...

 

[Guanto]

Just as a note... blocking, locations etc... are all part of what I've done.

Cool. And I am not considering any aspect of your talents or career or whatever beyond screenwriting, per your post. So it is important that I clarify I wasn't referring to blocking in its typical sense, which is going through a scene from your final draft with your actors during a rehearsal or on set. I was referring to a little secret of mine where I go through a scene long before then with a working draft, myself and a mirror, or a PA or a buddy months prior. It reveals amazing things (fuck ups) in continuity, pacing, character spatial relations, and the feasibility of characters physical actions in the real world vs how you've written them, per my examples. I've hands down patched the most holes through this process.

 

[gorillaonabike]

Cool. And I am not considering any aspect of your talents or career or whatever beyond screenwriting, per your post. So it is important that I clarify I wasn't referring to blocking in its typical sense, which is going through a scene from your final draft with your actors during a rehearsal or on set. I was referring to a little secret of mine where I go through a scene long before then with a working draft, myself and a mirror, or a PA or a buddy months prior. It reveals amazing things (fuck ups) in continuity, pacing, character spatial relations, and the feasibility of characters physical actions in the real world vs how you've written them, per my examples. I've hands down patched the most holes through this process.

That's really interesting. I'll use that, thanks.

Never even occurred to me. The, er, sex scene might be a little tricky, though...

Incidentally, in terms of crying, have you ever seen gel tears? Those things are amazing. Just dab on, leave for 30 seconds and here come the tears!

 

[film_autre]

That's really interesting. I'll use that, thanks.

Never even occurred to me. The, er, sex scene might be a little tricky, though...

brad is happy to assist

 

[directorik]

First stage: Write the damn thing and get it to an OK stage
Second stage: All plot holes removed, make it 'readable' albeit a little long.
Third and final stage: Cutting back and refining, honing the style, making it absolutely right for shooting.

What stages of screenplay development do you have? What do you do within the process around this?

I've never thought of it this way (three stages) but this is exactly what I do.

The only difference in MY process is I don't bring in external opinions. Not
when I'm writing to direct. My final "stage" comes after casting when I listen
to the actors I've hired. I find their opinion very valuable. But I have found
that "expert or other" range all over the place and do not help with the story
I have passion for.

 

[Cracker Funk]

The only difference in MY process is I don't bring in external opinions. Not
when I'm writing to direct. My final "stage" comes after casting when I listen
to the actors I've hired. I find their opinion very valuable. But I have found
that "expert or other" range all over the place and do not help with the story
I have passion for.

Interesting perspective. I absolutely value getting the opinions of others in-between each revision of the screenplay. Though I personally would never go to an "expert". I've found a small handful of people whose opinions I trust, largely because they and I see eye-to-eye on many aspects of filmmaking, and they know me well enough to know the kind of movies I tend to make.

That being said, I appreciate the fact that you've found a method that works for you, and I fully encourage every other screenwriter to find their own method.