how many shotguns/booms?

[psychwardmedia]

OK - so I'm an audio engineer who knows his way around the studio fairly well but I'm totally unfamiliar with film, and got this job working with an indie film maker, thinking it would be fun to expand my horizons. I must say though, it's a whole different animal than music or advertising. So, I need to ask a few questions. Number one, how many booms does the typical indie film (non 5.1 - I've not invested in an encoder, and don't plan to until I get paid a bit for this) make use of at one time? I'll be giving recommendations on what to buy and include in their budget. I'm thinking 2-3 MXL shotgun mics, and bringing an extra stereo matched cardioid small diaphragm pair from the studio just in case. Maybe another mic based on budget...we shall see. I still have to get a flight case for my desktop pc, and gear. Yay for beating the budget with a stick. I've worked clean up on lavalier mics before...and always end up getting called in to remove noise that is absolutely un-fixable. So if your suggestions don't include lavs I'll smile more, but whatever you guys use, let me know. As I said, I'm new to film.

 

[Alcove Audio]

One shotgun for outdoors, one hypercardioid for indoors to start. Two booms simultaneously isn't needed very often. Dialog is recorded in mono. If your mixer/recorder allows send the dialog to two (2) channels and set the level for one of them lower to account for possible distorting transient peaks.

Go with a basic production sound mixer/recorder; you're going to be a one man sound crew so you'll need to carry everything. (BTW, the folks below are collecting sound effects, not doing production sound, but the principle is the same; the guy in the foreground is carrying a mixer, a recorder and several wireless receivers.)

Swinging a boom is one of the hardest jobs on a set. You need to have all of the dialog memorized so you can anticipate when to adjust the boom from actor to actor. You have to keep it out of frame and not create any noticeable shadows.

If you have a budget we can make a few recommendations.

Here's a forum for production sound professionals.

http://jwsoundgroup.net/

 

[Alcove Audio]

Here's another, just for fun (on the set of "Blood Diamond" if I remember correctly):

 

[jax_rox]

If you're going to be doing the lavs yourself - setting them and recording them, then there shouldn't be too much issue..? I find that on sets I've been on sometimes we've had to use wireless lavs simply because we couldn't do the shot and get sound any other way. In really low-budget stuff, sometimes we'll only have the one boom for both indoor and outdoor (ie something like an NTG-3 or MKH416) but generally there's at least a couple of lavs just in case we have shots that call for them. On low budgets I've been on though, we've usually had seperate boom ops and sound recordists. Possibly because working dual system I'm sure it can be difficult recording, boom oping and filling out sound reports all at once..

I also find the less experienced boom ops generally prevalent on lower-budget sets don't quite know how to hold a boom properly and whilst this is not often a major cause of issue, it can sometimes cause shadow hassles.. As well as I've seen others who have had boom arms in shot but not the mic itself.
I'm a camera guy myself, but afaik the correct way to hold a boom is horizontally, no? As holding it diagonally creates much more issues with shadows, and being in shot especially as on a wider lens you can have the boom in shot even if the mic isn't. Feel free to correct me though, I'll be the first to admit I don't have expertise in location sound.

 

[psychwardmedia]

well this is sounding like much less fun, (no offense to you film guys)...one of my favorite parts of studio sound is the mic technique. You're saying I should use nothing to get a stereo image, or ambience? The exec producer seems like he's against doing very much adr in the studio, or recording of effects...it sounds like he really wants to just work on basic timing edits and maybe some eq.

 

[Alcove Audio]

You're saying I should use nothing to get a stereo image, or ambience?

All of that is done in audio post.

The job of the production sound team is to capture - in mono - the clearest, cleanest dialog possible. The most natural sounding dialog is captured by the boomed mic. Although it is not unusual for big budget productions to have a boomed mic, several lavs and several plant (hidden) mics, most dialog editors go for the boomed mic first. For the problem syllable/word/line you go to the dialog from the other (unused) takes, then go to the audio from the other mics if needed. Once all of that fails you use ADR. Once again, big budget production will ADR large sections of the film so that it is available to the rerecording mixers. They may ADR 70% of the film, but only use 10% of the ADR in the final mix. It's cheaper to get all the ADR possibly needed in one long (several days) session than to constantly have the talent return over and over again.

Once in audio post everything but the dialog itself is stripped from the production sound tracks. All human made sounds - footsteps, punches, clothing, props handling - is performed by Foley artists. All sound effects - vehicles, weapons, doors, ambient atmospheres - are created by the sound effects team by either creating the sounds from scratch or picking them from libraries (it's usually a combination thereof).

The dialog, Foley, Sound FX, Score & Source Music are all mixed together by the rerecording team, who also do all of the noise reduction on the dialog tracks.

It's audio post that's the fun part of sound-for-picture. You get to be creative and have some fun if you're not under a very tight deadline.

If you really want to get involved try the following books:

Dialog Editing: The Invisible Art - John Purcell

The Foley Grail - Vanessa Ament

The Sound Effects Bible - Ric Viers

The Practical Art of Motion Picture Sound - David Yewdall

Sound Design - David Sonnenschien

 

[directorik]

well this is sounding like much less fun, (no offense to you film guys)

None taken.

As a director I have enough on my hands with DP's who want to
endlessly tweak lights and actors who need constant care about
their motivation and emotions. I do not need a recordist who
wants to capture stereo images and ambience on a set with 20
to 50 people, generators, trucks, lights, dollies and other equipment.
(no offense to you sound guys)

The actual ambience on the set is far from the way the final product
should sound. What I want (and what the post audio guys want) is
exactly what Alcove says - a good, clean, noiseless, mono track of
the dialogue. Then they can build on that in the studio to create what
the audience will hear. Especially on a low budget project where I can't
afford to bring back actors to do ADR I want to capture the dialogue
as clean and noiseless as possible and do it fast.

Probably the most misunderstood and ignored people on the set, capturing
excellent dialogue tracks is not much fun - but of equal importance as
capturing an excellent image.

 

[psychwardmedia]

thanks for your help, as a producer/recording engineer I'm used to the music side of things, and I can see that this is an ENTIRELY different animal. I'm thinking that I've figured out the right train of thought though. I think I'll treat it, of course like you said, but for my brain I'll think of it like the radio shows and podcasts I've worked with, think of just the dialogue during recording, like you said, and keep post in the back of my head, since I'll be doing post too. This is going to be one big project. I can see the credits now. There will be a whole section of audio credits that just keeps repeating my name, lol. Anyhow, you've been incredibly helpful, and I'll probably try to check some of those books out from the library.

 

[Alcove Audio]

thanks for your help, as a producer/recording engineer I'm used to the music side of things, and I can see that this is an ENTIRELY different animal. I'm thinking that I've figured out the right train of thought though.

It's going to take a few projects just to figure out the basics. I know; I was, first, a touring musician, then a music recording engineer before migrating to audio post. The technical knowledge - pre-amps, mics, tracking, sub-mixes/bussing, etc. - is useful, but everything else is so different that you feel lost, sometimes.

I think I'll treat it, of course like you said, but for my brain I'll think of it like the radio shows and podcasts I've worked with, think of just the dialogue during recording, like you said, and keep post in the back of my head, since I'll be doing post too.

Nope, you treat is as something totally new; this is sound-for-picture!!! Keep post in the forefront of your thinking at all times.

This is going to be one big project. I can see the credits now. There will be a whole section of audio credits that just keeps repeating my name, lol. Anyhow, you've been incredibly helpful

Keep it simple - Audio post by or Supervising Sound Editor or Sound Designer. You don't credit each individual step. In my contracts I do request that my facility also be credited.

Supervising Sound Editor/Sound Design - Bob Kessler
Audio post services facilities provided by Alcove Audio Productions

I'll probably try to check some of those books out from the library.

Spend some time at filmsound.org as well - lots of great resources, especially the Randy Thom and Walter Murch articles. ANd spend some time wandering through the history; the background information is invaluable.