How I'm Feeling About Filmmaking...

NickClapper

NickClapper

So, I thought I'd write a few of my current thoughts now and maybe open it up to a bit of discussion.

I've almost finished work on The Flight of the Flamingo. Someone I really respect, a fellow indie writer/director, once told me that you've got to be prepared to be 'the only person left at the end', but I still managed to get caught off-guard. Of course, there are still people working on the film- the sound designer, the composers, the colourist- but it's all up to me to make sure that the work gets done and that everything gets patched together. And, to be honest, I'm kind of exhausted with it. Wearing the writer/director/producer hat means that I've been working on this project for over a year and, even though I know that I will have something to show for it, I don't have anything yet. I'm still waiting for the moving pieces to come into place, all the while feeling a greater creative disengagement from my work. I want to focus on other stuff, want to work on other projects- but I need to get this finished, even though my love for the film has come and gone. I'm finding it hard now to see past the errors, the mistakes, the things that I could've done slightly differently. That's not to say that I'm not proud of the film as well, I am, it's just that I feel like with each week that passes, I'm growing further in a different direction to what I've produced.

Which is all quite whiney, but it leads into a relatively important decision. I've got a year left of study and, as I see it, three options for what to do after that: a.) a job, b.) post-grad study, and c.) another film project. A and B are the easiest; slipping into the rest of my life quite naturally. I've been doing more and more journalism work, and some freelance stuff to boost my CV, and when I graduate I expect I could get some sort of work in a field that genuinely interests me. Or, I could continue to study and add to my education and develop myself in that way. It's sensible and would mean I delay making serious decisions for a while. But C is still the option that excites me the most, even baring in mind how tired I am at the moment. Undoubtedly it would be difficult, but FOTF have opened a lot of doors, some quite unexpected, and I wonder whether to continue at a tangent would be to ignore an amazing opportunity. So I have to toss these over and over in my mind for the next year or so.

But, for the time being, I wonder what people here think of that sense of fatigue. I sometimes see people making comments like 'if you don't enjoy watching your own work then you shouldn't be making movies' or other crass words with the same meaning. I love writing, I love watching movies, and I love the process of filmmaking- and when I saw the rough cut for the first time I really enjoyed it- but right now I'm feeling a dispiriting sense of post-natal indifference. I just want the film to be finished now, I have accepted that I cannot iron out its every flaw and that feels like a creative defeat.

Any comments? ;)
 
I think this is perfectly natural, and I've experienced much of the same feelings. Just keep in mind that while it's already opened up many doors, and although you can't help but see the flaws in it, that doesn't mean it won't continue to open up more doors. I know I'm stating the obvious, but gotta just stick it out, and get it out there!

Which reminds me, I was supposed to yousendit something to you. I'll be sure to do that tonight. I've got the next couple weeks free, before I take on my next editing assignment, so let me know if there's anything I can do to help.

And yeah, it's F'ing exhausting. We're paying our dues, man. We keep heading in the right direction, and we won't always have to be the person who is responsible for EVERYTHING. For me, the exhaustion set in when I was syncing audio. The actual job of syncing audio is tedious, but not difficult. But by then, I had seen the movie SO MANY GODDAM TIMES! I absolutely despised every minute of that audio work.

On the issue of creative defeat -- this brings to mind that famous interview that most of us on here have listened to or read. Like an idiot, I can't think of the famous artist who gave the interview, but he was commenting on how when we're gaining our early experiences, we often feel disappointed with our work because we have good taste. We have good taste enough to know that this isn't what we want to be producing.

Nick, you have good taste. But that absolutely doesn't make an early piece of work any kind of creative defeat, just because you're able to recognize that it's not up to par with what you know you can produce. Ultra-low-budget filmmaking is F'ing hard, man! Tiny budget, tiny crew, tiny cast, limited locations, extreme time-constraints -- that all adds up to one REALLY difficult shoot.

There is a local production I'm aware of that is happening in my area (close to wrapping, I believe). The people producing it are considerably more experienced than you or I. Like you, they crowdfunded a modest budget, shot with minimal crew. And dude, you would not believe the crap they're putting out! It's bad. REALLY bad. Obviously, out of respect I don't want to provide any links, but I promise I'm not making this up. And I think we've all seen enough to know that the VAST majority of ultra-low-budget films are REALLY bad. Your movie has some really great moments, and I'm really looking forward to seeing how much more it comes together with the score and sound design.

In examining my own short-comings on my first feature, and how to make it better on the next, I've often thought about something Alcove is prone to point out, when discussing audio design. You can have fast, you can have cheap, you can have high quality, but you can't have all three -- you gotta pick two. I think this applies not just when you're hiring someone, but when you're producing, and that is why, on my next production, we'll be going slow and cheap.

Anyway, I'm kind of rambling at this point, but my point is that I think you've got a healthy attitude about this, and I think you'll be just fine in choosing which next step is best to take. Just be sure not to leave this current project behind. Besides finishing it, you still gotta get it out there for people to see! :D
 
You will never get over that feeling of creative flaws until you accept the fact that you will always know every flaw in every project you ever work on. What's important is to focus on the good aspects, the things you achieved, the things that impress even you.

It also helps to find flaws in even your favorite movies. There is no such thing as a perfect movie, and if anyone tells you there is, then tell them to stop doing drugs
 
Cracker Funk said:
On the issue of creative defeat -- this brings to mind that famous interview that most of us on here have listened to or read. Like an idiot, I can't think of the famous artist who gave the interview, but he was commenting on how when we're gaining our early experiences, we often feel disappointed with our work because we have good taste. We have good taste enough to know that this isn't what we want to be producing.
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Are you talking about this Ira Glass quotation?

KMBA-Ira+Glass+Quote.png
 
That's my thing with anything creative. Half the battle is staying with it, and the other half is learning that most of what you create early on is nothing like you planned it or think it "should" be. The challenge is in learning that what your vision for something is, it's completely separate from whether it's entertaining or even good. My hardest lesson was learning that just because I think I could've done better in whatever I've done (mostly writing, but other things too) is a powerful motivator to keep going and keep learning and improving. You may not ever have your ideal finished product (chances are you won't, honestly), but as long as you keep trying, keep pushing, and keep improving? That's a true success. You're only a failure if you give up or never try in the first place.
 
What you're feeling right now is why I started using the phrase "ever forward" all the time. Walking requires you to move one foot than the other, it never needs be more comlicated than that and you'll have forward progress... Being frustrated with others' dedication/available time is irrelevant to this forward progress.

Left foot...
Right foot...
Repeat...

You will get where you're going.
 
NickClapper said:
I just want the film to be finished now, I have accepted that I cannot iron out its every flaw and that feels like a creative defeat.
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I think most people will feel that way at one point or another. The last few things we've done I've not been able to wait until it's off my desk. And I've seen it so many times and heard it so many times I feel like if I never see or hear it again it'd still be too soon! But, I still get excited planning the next one. And after a while, I do enjoy watching the older ones.

As far as the flaws, there will always be some, and that's also something I'm sure everyone feels one way or another. Remember, you generally learn more from your failures than your successes. Seeing something you'd do differently, you learn, adapt and do it better next time. I expect to never stop imagining better ways to do something "next time"!

CraigL
 
It's a lonely business being the director. Cast and crew are only with you for a little while and then they're off on other projects that excite them as much as yours did while your stuck in front of a computer for the next year with the no-doubt-flawed footage that you made together. It sucks.

I actually don't enjoy filmmaking at all and I don't get people who do. Here's how I'd break it down:
Script writing is fun. It's the thing I'm best at and there's no pressure yet.
Preproduction is months of money raising and trying to tie you cast and crews availabilities into a schedule. You'd have to be pretty perverse to like it.
Shooting is just stressful. It's not creative, there's no time to be creative. I've already visualised everything and know what I want so on set is just trying to achieve that in incredibly small amounts of time and not screw it up.
Post... I often enjoy post but there's no denying it's a long slog. You're talking months and months of work. Obsessing over the same hour and a half of footage for that long is always going to become tiresome at some point. At this point I could sit in front of you and recite all 90 minutes of dialogue from my last film from start to finish. Well bored of it by now.

And that's when everything goes right. There's 2,000,000 things that can go wrong. You could have an egomanical lead actor who you lose for the last 3 days of shooting because he threatens to sue you as happened on my last film. Your lead actress could decide she looks better in a bob halfway through the shoot and hack off all her hair. Your computer/camera can die mid shoot. Or whatever it is but whatever it is it's your (as director) problem alone. Blargh!

No I don't get the fun part. Personally I'm exhausted by it too... but I'm going to go do it again anyway. No sane explanation for it.
 
Joy REQUIRES suffering to realize its depth.

That feeling you have when you witness someone you've never met before actually understand what your were tying to say\show however mundane, is the pay off. Connection with another spirit is the goal. The ultimate endeavor of a rational human is to be understood by a fellow being. However impossible this goal is in day to day interaction, it is through art that we approach meaningful connection at a deeper level. It doest have to be deep meaningful art, after all consider the laugh.. its a non-verbal communication that happens between people and a level BELOW language, no deep philosophical meaning is possible, but being part of a group sharing a laugh is a communing experience. .. yada yada whatever.. lol

FYI: Joy is NOT happiness, its bigger than that.
 
Dready -- Yep, that's the one. Thanks!

Dom D -- I'm not saying this to be snide or disrespectful, but I think you might benefit by letting someone else direct. I love directing, and production is the best part! You're basically just playing pretend, with a bunch of other people who love to play pretend! And if you don't think that's creative...
 
Cracker Funk said:
Dom D -- I'm not saying this to be snide or disrespectful, but I think you might benefit by letting someone else direct. I love directing, and production is the best part! You're basically just playing pretend, with a bunch of other people who love to play pretend! And if you don't think that's creative...
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Hey a huge percentage number of our favorite directors would agree with me. Alfred Hitchcock is famous for his attitude that after preproduction it was just a slog. He'd already made the movie in his head and production was just the factory putting the parts together. Of course he still needed to do it himself because it was his head the film exisisted in. No an ucommon attitude at all. I think you can split diirectors into two groups: those who like spending time with actors and those that prefer the tech side. I would suspect that the actor directors enjoy time on set signicantly more than the tech people. Personally I find actors very hard work but then I can't think of plenty of great directors who openly despise them.
 
OK, here's the bad news. Whenever we start anything, we generally fail to be as good as we dream.

However, those who keep going and are talented... win.

I am British chess championship prizewinner. I wasn't the most naturally gifted and had to play within my own, personal limitations. However, I knew I was gifted enough that if I worked at it, I would eventually get there. And I did, beating a lot of better players who were falling by the wayside. It was tough and I rarely ever heard anyone talking positively about my skills until after I'd won the prizes, tournaments and been successful.

Film making is identical and I think of mistakes in a positive light. That Tarantino interview where he talks about his first feature is exactly how I feel about my short film-making and music vid start in life. I am starting small, making mistakes (same as you) and learning from each mistake. However, my expectation is to take a huge amount of cr"p for a while, even once my skills have been honed to a point that I am making good stuff.

However, the biggest mistake would be to give up. Go for it. You have talent, desire and a little experience. Your second feature will be exponentially better than your first... as long as I get something to do in it... ;)
 
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Cracker Funk said:
I think this is perfectly natural, and I've experienced much of the same feelings. Just keep in mind that while it's already opened up many doors, and although you can't help but see the flaws in it, that doesn't mean it won't continue to open up more doors. I know I'm stating the obvious, but gotta just stick it out, and get it out there!

Which reminds me, I was supposed to yousendit something to you. I'll be sure to do that tonight. I've got the next couple weeks free, before I take on my next editing assignment, so let me know if there's anything I can do to help.

And yeah, it's F'ing exhausting. We're paying our dues, man. We keep heading in the right direction, and we won't always have to be the person who is responsible for EVERYTHING. For me, the exhaustion set in when I was syncing audio. The actual job of syncing audio is tedious, but not difficult. But by then, I had seen the movie SO MANY GODDAM TIMES! I absolutely despised every minute of that audio work.

On the issue of creative defeat -- this brings to mind that famous interview that most of us on here have listened to or read. Like an idiot, I can't think of the famous artist who gave the interview, but he was commenting on how when we're gaining our early experiences, we often feel disappointed with our work because we have good taste. We have good taste enough to know that this isn't what we want to be producing.

Nick, you have good taste. But that absolutely doesn't make an early piece of work any kind of creative defeat, just because you're able to recognize that it's not up to par with what you know you can produce. Ultra-low-budget filmmaking is F'ing hard, man! Tiny budget, tiny crew, tiny cast, limited locations, extreme time-constraints -- that all adds up to one REALLY difficult shoot.

There is a local production I'm aware of that is happening in my area (close to wrapping, I believe). The people producing it are considerably more experienced than you or I. Like you, they crowdfunded a modest budget, shot with minimal crew. And dude, you would not believe the crap they're putting out! It's bad. REALLY bad. Obviously, out of respect I don't want to provide any links, but I promise I'm not making this up. And I think we've all seen enough to know that the VAST majority of ultra-low-budget films are REALLY bad. Your movie has some really great moments, and I'm really looking forward to seeing how much more it comes together with the score and sound design.

In examining my own short-comings on my first feature, and how to make it better on the next, I've often thought about something Alcove is prone to point out, when discussing audio design. You can have fast, you can have cheap, you can have high quality, but you can't have all three -- you gotta pick two. I think this applies not just when you're hiring someone, but when you're producing, and that is why, on my next production, we'll be going slow and cheap.

Anyway, I'm kind of rambling at this point, but my point is that I think you've got a healthy attitude about this, and I think you'll be just fine in choosing which next step is best to take. Just be sure not to leave this current project behind. Besides finishing it, you still gotta get it out there for people to see! :D
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Excellent message, I fully endorse all of it. In more positive moments that's probably what I'd tell other people!

I knew that you'd be able to empathise, having put so much labour into Antihero on your own. I've certainly had a lot more help with FOTF but, at the end of the day, the whole things on my shoulders, and that's when you need to keep going and try and be satisfied with what your putting out.

VBoheme said:
That's my thing with anything creative. Half the battle is staying with it, and the other half is learning that most of what you create early on is nothing like you planned it or think it "should" be. The challenge is in learning that what your vision for something is, it's completely separate from whether it's entertaining or even good. My hardest lesson was learning that just because I think I could've done better in whatever I've done (mostly writing, but other things too) is a powerful motivator to keep going and keep learning and improving. You may not ever have your ideal finished product (chances are you won't, honestly), but as long as you keep trying, keep pushing, and keep improving? That's a true success. You're only a failure if you give up or never try in the first place.
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Definitely. For a long time I've been someone who wants to finish anything creative that I start. I rarely leave a script half-finished, if I start a project (like my blogs, or other writing) I see them through to completion, and I am, of course, going to finish the fuck out of FOTF- even if it kills me ;) I'm just wishing I was feeling slightly prouder about the end product, but part of that is repetitiveness of rewatching and also knowing the inner workings of the film, things that could have gone differently/better.

CraigL said:
I think most people will feel that way at one point or another. The last few things we've done I've not been able to wait until it's off my desk. And I've seen it so many times and heard it so many times I feel like if I never see or hear it again it'd still be too soon! But, I still get excited planning the next one. And after a while, I do enjoy watching the older ones.

As far as the flaws, there will always be some, and that's also something I'm sure everyone feels one way or another. Remember, you generally learn more from your failures than your successes. Seeing something you'd do differently, you learn, adapt and do it better next time. I expect to never stop imagining better ways to do something "next time"!
Click to expand...

I knew going in, that making a feature film in London for $7000 was going to be difficult and that we were trying to make something 'as good as possible' rather than 'good' (which sounds kind of defeatist but actually isn't). And, for the money, we've put together something very pleasant and I have no regrets there. I'm just tired of the project and that's making me pick up on things that I know I'll want to do differently next time.

Leave the funny shit to the big studios, I want to make something harrowing :lol:

Dom D said:
It's a lonely business being the director. Cast and crew are only with you for a little while and then they're off on other projects that excite them as much as yours did while your stuck in front of a computer for the next year with the no-doubt-flawed footage that you made together. It sucks.

I actually don't enjoy filmmaking at all and I don't get people who do. Here's how I'd break it down:
Script writing is fun. It's the thing I'm best at and there's no pressure yet.
Preproduction is months of money raising and trying to tie you cast and crews availabilities into a schedule. You'd have to be pretty perverse to like it.
Shooting is just stressful. It's not creative, there's no time to be creative. I've already visualised everything and know what I want so on set is just trying to achieve that in incredibly small amounts of time and not screw it up.
Post... I often enjoy post but there's no denying it's a long slog. You're talking months and months of work. Obsessing over the same hour and a half of footage for that long is always going to become tiresome at some point. At this point I could sit in front of you and recite all 90 minutes of dialogue from my last film from start to finish. Well bored of it by now.

And that's when everything goes right. There's 2,000,000 things that can go wrong. You could have an egomanical lead actor who you lose for the last 3 days of shooting because he threatens to sue you as happened on my last film. Your lead actress could decide she looks better in a bob halfway through the shoot and hack off all her hair. Your computer/camera can die mid shoot. Or whatever it is but whatever it is it's your (as director) problem alone. Blargh!

No I don't get the fun part. Personally I'm exhausted by it too... but I'm going to go do it again anyway. No sane explanation for it.
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I get what you're saying and production is undoubtedly stressful, anyone who doesn't think that hasn't been working hard enough! But, at the same time, I do enjoy it- and if I had to choose a stressful job then I'd take that any day over being a firefighter.

gorillaonabike said:
OK, here's the bad news. Whenever we start anything, we generally fail to be as good as we dream.

However, those who keep going and are talented... win.

I am British chess championship prizewinner. I wasn't the most naturally gifted and had to play within my own, personal limitations. However, I knew I was gifted enough that if I worked at it, I would eventually get there. And I did, beating a lot of better players who were falling by the wayside. It was tough and I rarely ever heard anyone talking positively about my skills until after I'd won the prizes, tournaments and been successful.

Film making is identical and I think of mistakes in a positive light. That Tarantino interview where he talks about his first feature is exactly how I feel about my short film-making and music vid start in life. I am starting small, making mistakes (same as you) and learning from each mistake. However, my expectation is to take a huge amount of cr"p for a while, even once my skills have been honed to a point that I am making good stuff.

However, the biggest mistake would be to give up. Go for it. You have talent, desire and a little experience. Your second feature will be exponentially better than your first... as long as I get something to do in it... ;)
Click to expand...

Graft and sweat, I know that now. When I've crewed on other people's films it's just been a normal job, normal hard work. But making your own film means you have the hard work and then all the pressure of responsibility. It's a very different, very oppressive type of stress. The rewards are greater, but the shit you have to wade through it deeper and more treacherous. Still, the other shore is in sight now...

And yes! Let's make a movie together- I've lost Phil to Hollywood, and I definitely want to be part of a bigger team for future projects :yes:
 
NickClapper said:
Still, the other shore is in sight now...

And yes! Let's make a movie together- I've lost Phil to Hollywood, and I definitely want to be part of a bigger team for future projects :yes:
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Let's do it! I have the small matter of a short to complete (one more scene to shoot) and then let's shoot one together! I know a few guys who would be interested!
 
gorillaonabike said:
Let's do it! I have the small matter of a short to complete (one more scene to shoot) and then let's shoot one together! I know a few guys who would be interested!
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Not planning on shooting anything until Autumn 2014, so plenty of time to get that short finished ;)

After shooting a rushed $7000 feature, I've realised what could be possible with a proper pre-production period and a meatier budget. And it excites me.
 
Nick, you need a small break to get a fresh view on things again.

When I'm working on a project for a while I can sometimes even fall asleep watching it again and again :p

And when I don't 'see it' anymore, I let one of my friends (also a filmmaker) take a fresh look.
 
Also, consider the fact that you may be in the wrong medium. A friend of mine was in a similar situation, had directed several features and was just dragging through them. He got a couple of commercial and music video gigs between features and man he really shined. Just the right amount of time for his attention span and burst of creativity.

The directors that I have worked with that have overcome this do several of the following things. Take a break right after the shoot. Give notes to the editor and get the hell out of there for a bit. My favorite director wraps principal and tells me to call him when I have a rough cut. Usually, he's off working on his next script or taking meetings, but he comes back with a better focus and fresh eye.

Don't be precious. I know that there are exceptions to this rule, but film making is a collaborative process so don't be afraid to let other people drive the train for a bit. Even if it doesn't go the way you planned, it may open up a door that you would not have gone through. This also relieves stress, and believe me, stress can be a major factor in wearing you down.

Also, your health in general should be looked after when your pushing as hard as you do during production.
 
Hi Nick,

Well, I'll tell you a lot depends on what kind of movie you are making. So depending on the details, on the purpose ( if this is among your first films ever made), and whether you're really just trying to cut your teeth and get used to the process and feel more comfortable; then I would agree that getting the film completed is a really, really important step. So, I would certainly keep focused on that. If, however, you feel that there are some real legs to the project and that it's creatively passionate and strong then you may just want to take a break and walk away from it for a little while. And by little while I don't mean months or years, I just mean it might be time to take a few days or a week and do something that has nothing to do with film-making. I know this certainly works in other aspects of business and life. So it certainly works in the creative process. Either way, hope it works out for you Nick!

All best,

Sean
 
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