How do you shoot in Vancouver when...?

H

harmonica44

I tried shooting a project there a few weeks ago, and it didn't turn out. Mostly because it took so long to get around. I had someone drive me around and it took 3 plus hours to get from one side of the city to the other. I tried taking the train cause I hear it's fast and that got me back to the other side in 90-120 minutes plus the bus before and after.

But the problem with the train is, is that I cannot carry much equipment with me, compared a car or truck.

I would like to go back there as I know two actors there who has gotten other actors interested in a feature script I wrote. They said they want to do but I have no idea how I would finish it. Most likely the actors will want to shoot on weekends so I will have to keep traveling back and forth. That might be do-able but since it takes so long to get around for everyone, how are we suppose to get a scene shot in a day?

If I need to use two locations to double as one, where I live, everyone can be in the next location in 30 minutes. In Vancouver that could take 2 hours on average or more, and a lot of shoot time is just gone. I was talking to a collaborator and she said that's how pros probably do it. They do a 12 hour shoot in 4 if they have to. But I think that rushing it that much could result in a poor, rushed product with not enough attention detail done.

But Vancouver seems to be the movie shooting capital of Canada, so their must be a reason for it, despite the inconveniences. How do people do it?
 
From what I understand Torronto is more of a production hub, but that aside, plan like you would for any other shoot or location.

Plan travel time. If it takes 3 hours then plan for it. Start early at location one and end late at location two. If you can't afford the time, then do what every other low bimudget requires and compromise something. Either write for one location only, find a closer location, plan a second shoot day, etc. These kinds of "challenges" are pretty standard low budget procedure. Rarely if ever will everything be easy without paying for it.

Keep in mind too, most big productions will spend a day shooting 1/2 to 2 pages of a script a day at any given location. Traveling from A-B and shooting at both doesn't happen quite as often.
 
Yeah I have no problem getting up at 3 in the morning to be somewhere, it's just the travel time in between shoots that is the challenge since a lot of time goes into that.

One thing I've learned is that on a low budget you got to work faster and get more done than 2 pages a day. Like maybe for me, five pages a day at least is more acceptable.

And their is no room for corrections either. On a shoot I did recently for my friend's movie, the sound guy forgot something even though he checked it off on the list, it still feel behind and got lost on the way. He had to leave to buy a replacement.. It took him 30 minutes to get back. That's only 30 minutes, lost but if something like that happened in Vancouver, the whole day would be shot most likely.
 
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No you're totally right, you should be shooting 4-6 pages a day at least. I was explaining how major sets don't cram multiple locations in a day.

So, that said, how are you going to compromise? Less locations, different locations or more shooting time?
 
harmonica44 said:
How do people do it?
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By planning accordingly. "Company Moves," which is what these are called, always kill a whole ton of your day. On big-budget TV/film shoots, each location is likely prepped and ready to go in a case like this - certainly to a greater extent than what you are working with. Because they are day killers, it is best to plan as few of them as humanly possible. On an indie-feature crew (15-40 people) trying to cram in more than 1 company move in a day (that isn't some splinter unit pickup work or location plates or something with very few people) is inadvisable. If you are working with a very small crew, you can do more moves, but you have to plan accordingly.

But the answer is that when a company move is on the schedule, the AD team should know how long to:

-- wrap location A and get all vehicles gone.
-- travel time from A to B
-- Time to get all vehicles parked at B
-- Time to get relevant gear for 1st shot at location B out of vehicles and ready to go.

And that time is figured into the overall schedule, not just for the day, but for the shoot as a whole.
 
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harmonica44 said:
I tried shooting a project there a few weeks ago, and it didn't turn out. Mostly because it took so long to get around. I had someone drive me around and it took 3 plus hours to get from one side of the city to the other. I tried taking the train cause I hear it's fast and that got me back to the other side in 90-120 minutes plus the bus before and after.
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Why did it take so long? Vancouver's not that big a city - about 10 miles across from what I can see on google maps. I can't imagine the type of traffic it would take to turn that into 3+ hours to get from one side to the other. Maybe you just need someone who knows the city better to get you around?
 
Well some locations cannot double for more than one person. For example I want a police station for script. But where can I find a location that has the rooms I would need. Like the interrogation room, the evidence room, the parking lot. All the same sequence in the movie, but where do I find a location that can all the scenes in a sequence? It's tough.

It's not just that though. Since I live somewhere else, I wouldn't have as much time or opportunity to go over pre-production with the actors and crew, if they are in another city. For example I would need the actors who would be playing cops to learn martial arts, and since I am not there, I wouldn't know if they were learning it or how they were doing as much. Here I can get a guy to teach actors that, and I can be there.
 
harmonica44 said:
Here I can get a guy to teach actors that, and I can be there.
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Sounds like you just answered your own question.

I recommend you read a book called "The DV Rebels Guid", by Stu Maschwitz (one of the owners and creators at Red Giant software).

http://www.amazon.com/The-DV-Rebels-Guide-All-Digital/dp/0321413644

In one of the chapters he talks about writing scripts for what you have access too. If you want a Farrari, but only have access to a Chevy, then write the script so it works with the Chevy. I can respect your ambition, but until you have the time and backing, try to utilize the resources you have at hand.
 
Actually, it's more than just writing scripts for what you have access to, which makes it sound very limiting. The trick is figuring out what you have access to that's unique and could be cool, and then writing your script to feature the best things you can get. The idea is to play up your strengths, and avoid your weaknesses, to get the greatest appearance of production value on screen.
 
Well so far in my experience you don't know what you have access to, until the shoot day. I had access to shot in a building, and a signed contract, only to find out later, that someone else was in charge that shoot day and hadn't heard of any such thing. So some people don't even care about a contract. So with things like that, I won't know what I will have access to that early in pre-production of the script writing. I can make guesses though, but just guesses as no location owner will make any promises in stone most likely.

I would like to do 10 pages a day on my budget if I were to go to Vancouver, but almost every scene in the script is not as long as 10 pages so aiming for that many probably will not help.
 
Bro, you're at the same spot you were when you started. Biting off way too much.

There are plenty of things you have access to. A park, your living room, your car and if you're nice enough you'll have your friend's and family's stuff too. Do you work at a restaurant? Ask your boss to shoot there. At an office? Shoot there.

Can you make a provocative crime thriller drama in your living room, probably not that well. I mean you, could do the whole "whodunnit" thing and lock an investigation to your house I guess. Can you make a killer comedy in your living room? Probably.

You need to pull off the easy stuff because that's how you learn the big stuff. If you'd shot several 1-2 minute shorts this past year like we all encouraged you then you'd have a hell of a lot better plan and know hoe when it comes to booking locations and getting your actors there.

If those shorts were good, then you'd have a lot more people wanting to participate too. We fumbled through our first short not knowing much about how to run a set. Shoot, we didn't even have a script. We invited people, 8 or 9 came, we spent 4 hours tooling around, planning shots and shooting. I spent the next 40 or so hours on editing and effects. We ended up with a fun 58 second piece. Sent out an invite for another shoot a month later (this time with a script) and had dozens of people wanting to join in. We worked our way up to a longer short that was a 3 consecutive day shoot; 12 hours, 14 hours, 8 hours with a cast of 6, a dozen or so extras, 6 stunt men and close to 30 crew. It was a blast. Even that, after shooting 5 or 6 shorts as a growing team before that, we made tons of mistakes and had to learn.

You need momentum, but you have to start, and typically start small, to get it. Momentum builds, it doesn't happen.

End of typing rant, going back to work. Good luck in the future man, hope you finish stuff and build momentum and win an oscar and all your scripts become magically shootable and your wildest dreams come true. Sincerely.
 
I noted you said shooting in sequence.... this is movie magic, you dont shoot in sequence of events, you shoot in sequence of convenience of locations and setups...

You might shoot the emotional ending the first day.. doesn't matter.. you move everything around in the edit. This requires careful attention to continuity details like wardrobe, hair style, etc..
 
I don't mean shooting the whole movie in sequence. I meant shooting in sequence such as a sequence. Like for example let's say you have a scene like one I wrote, where two actors leave a business meeting. It then cuts to the hallway, and they are walking and talking about how the meeting went, and problems. That's a sequence, cause it's two scenes continuous after another. The first scene being the conference room, the second being the hallway.

That's what I mean, is that sometimes you just can't get a conference room and a hallway in the same location, and have to move from one to the other. I would prefer to shoot a whole sequence in one day, since the actors have the same clothes and hair, and will likely still be in character after the first scene of the sequence. That's what I mean. Not shooting a whole movie in sequence, if that's what you mean.
 
So then you don't have them walk down the hall. Have them talk in the car on the way to lunch, or another meeting, or a game of golf. Or standing out front of the/an office building. Or walking down the sidewalk on their way to grab a coffee. Or sitting at the bus stop, or the metro station, on their way home from work. Does it matter that they're in a hallway? Or is what they're talking about what matters? So make it easier for yourself, and find a way to get the same material in whatever locations you have available to you with the least moving around possible.
 
Well that's just one example. Another would be I have a scene that takes place in an interrogation room with people watching behind the glass, but who knows if I can get a scene where both rooms are right next to each other separated by a piece of glass. From there, they leave both rooms, and they are in a police station atmosphere. I might have to take three for that locations.

I could give other examples, but you get the idea. I'm not the best writer, and it's difficult to come up with a plot that is limited to a house. I got actors interested in this script, compared to another which my filmmaking collaborators wrote. But we are not the best writers or cannot come up with the best ideas that are limited, without sacrificing too much logic in the stories.

Even if I can get write a script so that one location per sequence can be used, do the actors and crew's travel time count as part of their pay? Say it takes two hours to get to a location, just one location for the whole day, does that count as part of their time?

So far in my experience while helping friends shoot their projects, most location owners do not want the cast and crew, to go over 6 hours of a shoot time a day. They just don't want to be their that long. So if I can get the sequences shot in under 6 hours, then adding another two hours of travel time could be feasible.
 
If I was a business with lots of customers coming and going, I would not be happy with a full crew on site for 6 hours or more - probably taking up heaps of space, dangerous cables to trip on etc.

In such situations, try rehearsing the whole scene - somewhere else. Have the gear, set it up, film, direct the talent (or no cost stand-ins). See where you can cut time to be faster - in-and-out in a much shorter time. And try to cut the number of crew inside a busy business - be very aware of cables and keep them out of customers way etc.

I'm in Vancouver. I'm sure most ultra low budget folks like us struggle a lot with locations. Some of us want police stations, great offices, interrogation rooms but often cannot get access to them. Story is key. Sure great locations (or unique ones) help a lot but do work on your writing. If you feel it's not great, work at making it better. For great screenwriting advice spend a few days on each of these sites -

http://johnaugust.com/
http://reelauthors.com/

You need your writing to be really good and your direction. Too many ultra low budget indies have really bad (and boring) writing and amateur-hour quality. Both skills are very difficult to master. But it's possible - some of the folks here have produced some damn nice work.

I'm new to Vancouver - don't know anyone here - so struggling big time with locations too. Our first movie will be mostly based in our flat. My partner and I are both seasoned screenwriters (non-pro but we have written 5 scripts or more each) so that helps.
 
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harmonica44 said:
Well that's just one example. Another would be I have a scene that takes place in an interrogation room with people watching behind the glass, but who knows if I can get a scene where both rooms are right next to each other separated by a piece of glass. From there, they leave both rooms, and they are in a police station atmosphere. I might have to take three for that locations.
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Ok so you don't have them watching behind glass - you have them watching on a TV from a surveillance camera in the interrogation room. Now you could use any two rooms in whatever location you have available. The police station atmosphere is going to be harder, but I suppose with the right background audio and a few props you could make any open office location with desks work, kind of. It's much easier to write it differently than to find locations like that to fit something you've already written.

I could give other examples, but you get the idea. I'm not the best writer, and it's difficult to come up with a plot that is limited to a house. I got actors interested in this script, compared to another which my filmmaking collaborators wrote. But we are not the best writers or cannot come up with the best ideas that are limited, without sacrificing too much logic in the stories.
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Writing is the only element in the filmmaking process that is completely unconstrained by reality. If you don't have unlimited (or at least significant) resources it's foolish to try and conform reality to unconstrained writing. You have to make it work the other way.

You say you're not the best writer, but that's just an excuse for not trying.

You're also not the best cinematographer, but you keep trying to do that. You're not the best director, or editor, or producer, or any of the things you've been struggling with over your nearly 4,000 posts here. And yet you keep going ahead and trying to do those things, and trying to do them better. Why not writing? It's the foundation upon which you build with all of those other skills, so it at deserves at least as much effort.

If it's difficult to come up with a plot that's limited to a house, then that's all the more reason to do it - it's in attempting, often failing at and re-attempting, and eventually achieving difficult things that we get better.
 
you missed my point about sequence shooting..

Your movie has more than one scene in each location. For example, you might have a criminal interrogation taking place in the room during one scene, in another scene you might have the bad buy back in the room with a different cop, in your story maybe its a different day! Both scenes have action behind the mirror..

Rather than shoot scene 1 interrogation then move to the behind the mirror location to pick up that action, then shoot scene 2 interrogation with a move back to the behind the mirror location to pickup the behind the mirror for that scene..

you shoot scene 1 interrogation, then shoot scene 2 interrogation. The only setup changes being wardrobe, makeup...

move to behind the mirror location and shoot scene 1 behind the mirror action and scene 2 behind the mirror action.. same thing, the only changes are makeup and wardrobe..

in this way you turned what was 4 setups\breakdowns into just 2!


You organize you shooting schedule by location and shot, not scenes.. of course you gotta be flexible with this, there are many other considerations, like actors time.. you don't want an actor on set every day for only 10 mins of shooting time.. when a careful reschedule would have them all done in one afternoon.
 
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