How can I view/invert Super8 negs transfered to ProRes on a PC?

[msp1518]

First of all, apologies for asking yet another question. I feel like all i do i ask questions here.

I have researched and read and am so far not finding an answer. I'm having some test footage shot on Super8 transfered as I type this (at 1080i) and will receive the files on a hard drive in ProRes format for Final Cut. That is all they can do. It was my only option locally within my budget.

I do not have a Mac or access to Final Cut and won't for at least four weeks because the person I knew with Final Cut just left for Germany on an emergency. Too bad I need to see this footage yesterday.

Yes, folks, I am a PC man. No Mac in house.

In looking at Vegas Movie Studio Platinum HD 10 (which is the stripped amateur version of Sony Vegas) I cannot see an option to view that file type and, more importantly, invert from negative to positive so I can actually see what we shot. I would go over to their forum and ask, but trying to register has proven to be a nightmare because they see my serial number as invalid and won't let me post. Thanks. i spent $75 for nothing. Great Sony!

Anyway... Does anyone here have any options that might work for me?

Will the stripped down Vegas I have be okay for this?

I don't have money to spend. i am tapped out. Broke. And will be for at least two weeks. But I really truly need to see this footage yesterday. It's late already and it took a ridiculous amount of time to get the negative stock back from the lab.

Projecting is not an option. I do not own one and cannot afford one. Projectors that do not damage or eat film cost a good chunk of change at this point and it wouldn't help me with negative footage anyway.

I should note that two of the transfers are of negative stock (one 200t one 500t) one transfer is of B&W Tri-X Reversal and the final is of color 100D.

Apologies if this has been covered, but my search here turned up dozens of unrelated threads/topics.

 

[Zensteve]

For like $20 you can get QuickTime Pro, which should allow you to convert the ProRes files into something more suitable for your editing. (Definitely verify this before buying; I use Adobe Media Encoder, personally)

If you just need to see it, a conversion itself might be unnecessary - with QT Pro you'll be able to view it as is, I think.

If you sent the footage to a lab, they should have already done the inversion for you. That's a standard part of the telecine process.

Which lab did you use, btw? And how did they transfer it?

 

[msp1518]

I do have QuickTime Pro on my system. Have had it for years. Had no clue it could do that without Final Cut.

It's not at a lab. Duall Camera in NYC has the rolls and will capture using their 3CCD camera at 1080i (not projected onto a wall, thankfully).

They don't invert. I did not realize that until I was there, but I really was out of options. Has to get done and at an affordable rate. Had I still owned a MiniDv camera they could have done an SD transfer and given me the MiniDV tape. That would have worked just fine.

But it is good to hear that QuickTime pro will allow me to do this. All i need to do is see the footage and check for focus, exposure. If it came out, then we know how to use the Super8.

This is why I come here. You guys know way more than me!

 

[msp1518]

Okay, I cannot seem to invert the negatives. They play fine in QT Pro as negatives, but nowhere do I see a way to flip them.

 

[directorik]

Quicktime Pro won't do it. I don't think even the FCP filters will do it.
I believe the lab needs to do it. Using "invert" doesn't make the negative
a positive - I tried it.

 

[msp1518]

I've watched people do it with Final Cut and with Quicktime. But the two people who I watched do it are not in the country at the moment. In other forums I see people talking about it, but no one says how.

Got the footage. Just cannot view it! Dammit. So frustrating.

If I had Adobe Premiere I could do it as well. Trying to get my hands on that but so far too expensive.

 

[Dreadylocks]

Have you tried calling Sony's customer service. Not only can they resolve your invalid serial problem to get you registered, but they will be able to answer your question about file formats so you may not even need an account for their support forum.

 

[chilipie]

Maybe I'm being really thick, but surely the negative should be a total inversion of the original? I realise it'll be fairly low-contrast, but I'm a bit confused as to why a simple inversion wouldn't work…

 

[msp1518]

Maybe I'm being really thick, but surely the negative should be a total inversion of the original? I realise it'll be fairly low-contrast, but I'm a bit confused as to why a simple inversion wouldn't work…

What do you mean by simple inversion? How?

Again, I'm new to all of this. The transfer was just a 3CCD filming of the negative via a projector. 90% of the places that transfer Super8 do this. So they just filmed the projected negative. They then have ProRes files to work with a flip/invert in Final Cut or QuickTime Pro.

People with Adobe Premiere also flip/invert it and color correct it themselves, but they don't encode as ProRes files.

I do not have a Mac. I have QuickTime Pro on my PC. I can play the ProRes files in QuickTime but cannot encode them or anything. Nothing else I have as far as software will play the ProRes files.

Again, these are ProRes files, which is for Final Cut or QuickTime. It was all I could get on my budget and unfortunately, they would not invert for me. I asked. They said no.

Scanning these negatives at pro8mm or any such place is not in the cards. i don't have that kind of money. My budget is strained as it is.

The two people I know who have Final Cut are out of the country. I don't have any friends with CS5 or Adobe Premiere.

As far as Sony, I called them. They are real pains in the rear. I'm really done with them. But Vegas can't read these anyway, so there is no point in going that route.

Lastly... The 100D and Tri-X stuff is fine because it is not negative. No problem viewing, though my system can barely handle ProRes 1080i stuff.

 

[chilipie]

Have you got a screenshot/short clip you could send over? If you have the ProRes codecs for Quicktime installed, you should at least be able to transcode them to something more useful.

 

[directorik]

I've watched people do it with Final Cut and with Quicktime. But the two people who I watched do it are not in the country at the moment. In other forums I see people talking about it, but no one says how.

That's good to know. When the people are back and show you
how, I hope you tells us.

Maybe I'm being really thick, but surely the negative should be a total inversion of the original? I realise it'll be fairly low-contrast, but I'm a bit confused as to why a simple inversion wouldn't work…

I don't understand it either. B&W neg inverts well - low contrast
as you mention - but color neg does not invert all the colors properly.
It ends up being a washed out blue. Even adjusting the reds and yellows
doesn't seem to work.

 

[msp1518]

Maybe this will help explain.

http://vimeo.com/18809673

This guy converts all his negative stuff. DIY telecine all the way. But he is not using ProRes, of course. I was given ProRes files.

PC's do not allow for any transcoding or alteration of ProRes. All I can do is view in QuickTime. But QuickTime Pro should be able to allow me to hit a setting that flips the negative to positive. I just don't know how to do it.

Had I been able to get a transfer to something other than ProRes, I would, but couldn't afford the ludicrous amount of money quoted when this is just some test footage.

The B&W footage was Tri-X reversal, so no negative. It develops into basically what would be considered a release print. Same with the Ektachrome 100D. But both are far too slow speed to use in subways, hence our testing 200t and 500t.

This is a screen grab of QuickTime playing the 500t ProRes file.

 

[hepabst]

Check and see if your version of Vegas can import an "image sequence". If yes, you export your Prores movie to an image sequence using Quicktime Pro. You have to create a directory for all the frame images to reside in and they have a sequenced name. You can choose what image format you want. Then import the sequence into your editor. You can also export a still frame in QtPro instead of a screen grab. Since the movie is interlaced the images will be interlaced. Not sure if you can de-interlace when exporting an image sequence.

I've never flipped a negative but as I understand it you have to first remove the brown/orange/yellow then flip the image.

You can import an image sequence into Photoshop, depending on the version, it puts it into a "video layer". Their website says if you have QTpro 7.1 or higher you can open the movie directly in Photoshop and it puts it in a video layer.

Post a QT still frame export if you can.

Hope this helps.

 

[chilipie]

Just two minutes in Final Cut…

I used the Invert Channel effect, and then applied a simple three way colour corrector - it doesn't look fantastic but with a bit more time and effort it could do.

 

[msp1518]

Guys, last night my buddy who has a Mac came over after having installed Final Cut Express on it. His company has a volume license. We Googled and googled and found we could flip the neg via Effects > Video Filters > Channel > Invert

And it worked. We then used FCE to create MP4's to view on my system, which I can show the DP. Color is not really right, but the point is I now know what was over/under-exposed, out of or in focus, etc. Success. I'll post a short clip once it is done uploading to Youtube.