How are my first 5 pages?

[harmonica44]

It's for a screenplay I am writing and just wondering how my talent is so far, since it's only my third screenplay.

Please be brutally honest, I could use it, and wonder if it gives a good enough impression that it could be worth making.

I have showed it to a couple of professional consultants so far and they said that the structure is poor and the dialogue is too on the nose, but they didn't really give anything more since I did not hire anyone yet. I am wondering if there is any problems in my writing to concentrate on more specifically before doing so.

Let me know, and of course, let me know what you think of it in general. I did some rewriting so their may be some spelling errors after making recent changes, in which case I apologize for, but will correct them once I know what improvements should be made.

Thanks for your feedback.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-Xsh5O2ZFssUFZsdWNzZ3VYYlE/view?usp=sharing

 

[harmonica44]

Yeah I know it does. It just seems that whatever scenario I come up with, it does not work. Perhaps probable cause is the wrong move here. I just need a way for one of them to get caught temporarily, so that the plot can take certain turns, but then for him to be released later, and the case to not be made.

 

[mlesemann]

Does the criminal need to get caught temporarily for THIS crime? If not, then maybe he can be picked up on an old warrant, then make bail. Or even for something like a bar fight. That way you get him out of the way for a while, if that's what you need.

 

[harmonica44]

Basically I need the victim, Sheila to be under police protection until a trial date, for almost the first half. While under protection a lot of the twists and turns happen their to bring the story where it needs to go. So the crooks don't necessarily have to be caught but she has to be under police protection for the first half. If not for a trial to testify at, then something else. But it has to be a ticking time bomb type scenario, like the police need her alive to get her on the record by a certain time, and the more closer they come to that time, the more desperate measures they take to keep her safe.

 

[mlesemann]

Sorry but that makes no sense. They'd have her statement immediately on tape, which would be used in a trial if she were killed.

 

[harmonica44]

Why are witnesses subpoenaed to appear at a trial when you can just get them on tape then?

 

[mlesemann]

If the witness is alive, the defendant - their attorney, in practical terms - has the right to cross examine the witness. If the person is dead, their taped statement is admissible. Of course it's better to have the living witness and certainly there will be efforts to keep the person alive. But a trial isn't generally the first time a witness makes a statement.

 

[harmonica44]

For sure. However, in my script the witness does not give a taped statement prior. She doesn't talk at all about her ordeal, so after failing to appear in court on a subpoena, they arrest her with a material witness warrant and keep her held in protective custody until the needed time.

 

[FantasySciFi]

Unfortunately, this does happen as is seen in a recent report: http://bangordailynews.com/2013/09/...itness-to-testify-against-her-alleged-abuser/

Working as a therapist with traumatized individuals, I can only say how deeply incidents like this sadden me. I truly wish those who felt they were doing the right thing by further legally ravaging a victim who has been brutalized and then abandoning them could live in the shoes of those people for a month. Yes, they need to be helped to testify but not by arresting them. People are under the mistaken notion that they are being picked up and put in some sort of protective custody, that's not the case.

When arrested, the police come to where you are and place you in handcuffs. For a battered partner it can lead to panic responses that get interpreted as resisting arrest. That traumatizes those around you, including kids, and creates all sorts of mistaken beliefs. Arrests are public record, putting your information on display and creates a criminal record for you. Yes, even though you committed no crime, you now have police profile. You are booked, photographed, fingerprinted and have to find someone to post your bail just because you reported being raped or assaulted. The message sent to women in domestic violent homes is (1) endure silently because you know what to expect or (2) seek help, be arrested and potentially lose your kids. [Yes, there is more I could write on this but it is a reality.]

It's like courtmartialing a POW suffering PTSD from torture because he managed to escape and doesn't want to go back into battle. In counseling vets, we make them safe, give them a place to process what they've been through, then assess if they're ready to go back into battle. These DV survivors have PTSD as well. If a deposition can be taken, the material witness warrant is unneeded. A trained police investigator should be sent to the home to take a deposition. The DA should appoint a Court Victim Advocate to assist her upon the perpetrator's arrest. The failure to protect and support the victim by abuse of power is unethical and immoral though perfectly legal.

'Arresting the victim' was not common, but I recently learned is a growing trend among DAs. I just came back from a three day trauma conference so, yeah, I'm a bit testy. Idiot lawmakers, DAs and judges like the one in the Maine case cited infuriate me with their callous insensitivity and naive belief, especially when there are kids involved. They take a fragile family, tear it to shreds and then think somehow they did a good thing.

Sorry to hijack the thread like this. Giving it more thought, I completely agree with Maz, I think this approach is completely tasteless. The scene is illogical the way it's presented and how you suggest it will be used. Raping Sheila and then arresting her will only explode in your face in a very negative way. Rape/Arrest is an inappropriate and unnecessary plot device. Yeah, I'd urge boycotting a film that ineptly and glibly handled such a sensitive topic.

Frankly, Harmonica, this would require a deep understanding of human emotions and responses and advanced writing skills to carry off this scenario. In your shoes, I would seriously consider advice about replacing this concept completely. There are other ways to get to the ending you desire which are safer. You may need to adjust a few twists and turns but I think the payoff will be better.

If he gets pulled over by Tyler while Sheila is in the car with him, you visually introduce her. Henderson gets mouthy and Tyler steps over the line. Henderson, more than likely, could easily beat that for an improperly executed search by Tyler seeking drugs in Henderson's car. You could make her Henderson's girlfriend who witnesses a drug deal that later goes sour. She can still be called as a material witness to testify about a drug deal she witnessed and require protective custody. Keep it simple. It's a well trod path with plenty of film examples for you to borrow and adapt which don't require any detailed understanding of psychology or the law.

If Sheila is taking up half the script, then she's a lead protagonist like Tyler. That makes them a "couple". The dynamic has changed to one of "The Bodyguard" (lover/protector dynamic), a Bond girl (bad girl defects to the good side) or the Amidala/Anakin dynamic of Ep. 3 (good girl lost as the boy descends). You can mash those up.

 

[harmonica44]

Okay thanks. I did not know you were a therapist FantasySciFi. It's good to hear your take on it. However, in my script, the way I intend it, is that Sheila being arrested is treated as negatively. You are suppose to feel sympathetic for her, for what happened to her. Tyler in the script objects to Sheila being arrested and her being treated that way. So it is treated as a negative, and not as a positive. I do not intend for viewers to see it as a positive move on the police. The prosecutor arrests her, but he is not portrayed in the best light, when it comes to victims, and this plays a part later, for when Tyler turns antihero. Her being treated that way by the prosecutor is part of the build up. The prosecutor and judge, are portrayed in a negative light, at least that's what I intended.

It is also part of Sheila's character development and not just a plot device only. But there are consequences in the case for treating her insensitively as a victim, so it's suppose to be sympathetic toward Sheila. I mean bad things happen to good characters, all the time in fiction, so I thought that by doing this it would be okay, as long as I do it in a tasteful manner. As far as switching it a plot about drugs, it won't really have the same effect. Drugs are small case cases, where as for my premise, I need a big case, that impacts more characters, in a harsher way, than drugs would, in order to motivate them more. I am not saying the drug plot can't be done, but drugs have been done to death in thrillers. I just don't have any original ideas for a drug plot, that would take up a feature length.

I think I can get away with Sheila being treated that way, as long as I write it as sympathetic towards her, and it's not approved of, in the writer. But I will definitely show it to other professionals once the plot holes are ironed out, and see what they say.

I know it's controversial subject matter, but there are lot of stories in fiction that deal with characters being persecuted, and it's treated as negative or unapproved of. But you say it's illogical the way it's presented. I wrote it according to the letter of the law procedure as best I could. What did I do wrong? What can I do to make it so that viewers are not turned off by her being arrested? I think the solution is do it right, rather than not do it at all.

I also wrote a script four years ago, that deals with drug dealers, and a drug deal gone bad, write in the opening. It was the only feature length I finished besides some drafts of this one so far. I showed both scripts to a screenwriter for feedback, and he got back to me saying that this one is better. He said that even though it has some holes to fill such as rewriting Tyler's motivations, at least it's not cliched. The other one he said is full of drug situation cliches you see all the time, going all the way back to several action movies of the 80s.

So that is something to bear in mind too, I do not want to do something that is THAT cliched. But don't get me wrong, I have seriously considered replacing the concept and have thought about it still, after you said. But I thought about it long before writing it, and got the opinions of several people. Most people do not mind a script that deals with sensitive subject matter as long as you do it right, so I think it's just a matter of rewriting it and improving what you are trying to get across, rather than doing something safe and cliched.

As for taking a deposition of the victim, since the victim in my script is not talking, that is why she is arrested, since I need her to be for the first half. Even though I need it for the plot, it does not go against her character, and she has reasons for not wanting to go through with it, as a lot of victims do. If she talked in the deposition, then the story would go in a completely different direction and therefore it is necessary. But what happens to Sheila in the opening is a big part of Tyler's transformation and if it was just some woman who was in the car of a guy who has drugs, he's not really going to care about that, at least not the point where it will set him off.

In fact we were talking about character flaws and how important they are. What if I wrote it so that Tyler is okay with Sheila being arrested to testify? Of course later he will feel she has been wrong, but what if at first he wasn't. Would this be an interesting flaw that would make him more interesting to the audience?

 

[FantasySciFi]

... I showed both scripts to a screenwriter for feedback, and he got back to me saying that this one is better. He said that even though it has some holes to fill such as rewriting Tyler's motivations, at least it's not cliched. ... Most people do not mind a script that deals with sensitive subject matter as long as you do it right, so I think it's just a matter of rewriting it and improving what you are trying to get across, rather than doing something safe and cliched.

Yeah, okay. I haven't read your script so I can't say. I'm sure you can find some movie you can borrow a scene from to help write this in a convincing, sensitive manner. Excuse my directness but if you can't even get Tyler, your lead's character motivation, how the hell do you think you can handle a sensitive subject? You can't even fill your own plot holes.

Sometimes an idea exceeds the current ability of its creator. Einstein initially lacked the mathematics to quantify his general relativity and had to get help from his mathematician friend, Riemann to learn differential geometry. Special relativity was a breeze because it used the existing Lorentz transformation.

Sheila's importance is in being reluctant to testify. There are many roads to that. You confuse 'simple and direct' with 'cliched'. That holds you back. As a new writer, established patterns are your friend. They offer safer guides to work from. If you recognize the cliche, you can change it. If you can't recognize it, then handling something which requires sensitivity might not be your best strategy at this point. Just sayin'. Good luck with your script.

 

[harmonica44]

Okay thanks. I guess right now I don't have any full feature length ideas for a story about drugs. But I see what you mean about taking cliches and changing them. I just feel that if I have an idea that can be carried to feature length I might as well do it. The last feature length script I wrote had a drug related plot, so this time I wanted to do something different.

But yes I rewrite a lot of Tyler's motivation differently. I think I need a villain a villain of the gang to get arrested though. Because while he is in custody, his lawyer makes inquiries, and has to do things that advance the plot. If no gang member is arrested, and they all get away, then the only thing Sheila can be arrested for, is to testify at a grand jury panel, to determine if their is enough evidence to lay charges and find out who did it. However, if it's just a grand jury panel, then the villains wouldn't get a lawyer to go make inquiries, cause a lawyer would not be allowed to get in to see the case files, if no arrests have been made yet, right?

Plus the lawyer would have to identify who his clients are which the villains are not going to want him to do, if they are not known to the police yet.

So I think one of them still has to be arrested.

What if I wrote it like this. The police are already aware of Sheila's kidnapping, and are going from house to house, of people who may have had motive, just to question them and make inquiries. They come across one person, let's call him John, and go there. Something happens in which Tyler and his partner, feel compelled to enter John's house by breaking in. Maybe they here something. They find Sheila kidnapped and the gang members there. A fight and chase ensues, and they get away. The cops call for back up, once they know something is amiss, but the back up arrives too late. John however, is arrested, but John is able to raise reasonable doubt, that he had no idea that was going on in his own home. So he goes free, and since he does not give up the others, the police will not be able to find them, which is what I need. This might work but I am going to iron out the details first to see if every plot point adds up and there are no loose ends. But as far as Tyler's motivation goes, is that better?