Blackmagic rocks it again.. seems like a red killer to me..
https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicursamini
https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicursamini
holly crud 4k for under 5K
- Thread starter wheatgrinder
- Start date
problem with BMD is the image is totally 'fine' - and that's it. I've shot a lot of RED, and I've shot a lot of Alexa... when you mount a lens on the RED or Alexa... or even the Sony F5 - the image has a certain... pop... that no other camera <$15k has.
To me, no matter how hard you push the grade (and you do have to push it a lot in many cases), it continues to look like a DSLR with more dynamic range (not to mention the colours in ProRes tend to be super weird, and need heaps of correction to get them looking normal).
I just have an overall disappointment with the image out of a camera that claims it is a cinema camera. It's a huge step up from a DSLR, especially when a 5D costs about the same as this new body. But if you're going to claim you can compete with the big boys, you better be able to bring an image that rivals them. And this doesn't.
If you mount a lens on a RED or Alexa for a Director who's previously only shot little stuff on their DSLR, they'll go 'wow this camera is amazing' (to which you have to stop yourself from saying 'the camera didn't light the scene or do any of the creative choices in regards to lensing, filtration etc.)
Mount a lens on a Blackmagic for a Director with whom you normally shoot Alexa, RED, film or whatever (but for some reason you don't have the budget for it this time) and the two of you will kinda look at it and say 'oh... is that it?'
And for $5k maybe that's all it should be. But then - is it worth the ridiculous hype that comes with every announcement? It's like people buy cameras these days purely based on the spec sheets, rather than actually looking at the image that comes out of it, or how the camera itself handles..
Great post! And whilst I don't have any experience of shooting Alexa or RED I can imagine that BMD has some way to go before rivalling the image acquisition of these cameras - heck, they're engineered without compromise whereas Blackmagic products are priced directly at the prosumer segment.
I feel that BMD is great at creating bridging hardware that allows low-budget filmmakers to learn and adopt the workflows traditionally reserved for big-budget productions (look at what they've done with Resolve/Fusion) and it's clear they want to compete with the likes of Arri, they're just not as good at doing this as those guys are yet - and why would they be? BMD's only been making cameras for 3 years
BMD's colour-science will improve though (Ursa v2/Mini is said to have improved colour) and they'll get better with each new camera release.
Hmm... dunno what to say about this other than it shouldn't happen - I've shot a *lot* of material with BMCC and BMPCC - over-exposed, under-exposed, ETTR, ProRes and I've *never* seen banding - either it was a faulty camera or possibly an old firmware issue - the only time my cameras surprise me is when the footage turns out better than it had any right to be given the circumstances...
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Great post! And whilst I don't have any experience of shooting Alexa or RED I can imagine that BMD has some way to go before rivalling the image acquisition of these cameras - heck, they're engineered without compromise whereas Blackmagic products are priced directly at the prosumer segment.
I feel that BMD is great at creating bridging hardware that allows low-budget filmmakers to learn and adopt the workflows traditionally reserved for big-budget productions (look at what they've done with Resolve/Fusion) and it's clear they want to compete with the likes of Arri, they're just not as good at doing this as those guys are yet - and why would they be? BMD's only been making cameras for 3 years
BMD's colour-science will improve though (Ursa v2/Mini is said to have improved colour) and they'll get better with each new camera release.
Blackmagic clearly have a very specific target market at the moment. I'm intrigued - it seems to me like Blackmagic want to pack as many 'on-paper' features as possible into their camera and sell it for the cheapest price they can; a new take on the original RED spin, if you will.
When they first released their Cinema camera, I remember they presented locally (they're based in Aus!) to a small collection of Cinematographers and led with 'you don't need to light anymore!'
Well - you can guess how well that went down! I wonder if they're trying to push down that path - create the best specced camera you can for the cheapest price, and push everyone to do their 'image creating' in post, in turn creating further sales for your colouring and post production software and hardware.
I had an acquaintance who worked at Blackmagic (who I haven't spoken to in quite a while), but I remember him showing us the pre-production Blackmagic Cinema Camera, and we all looked it at like 'who the f**k is actually going to buy this thing??'
3 years later, and it's obvious they've been able to carve a market.
Arri have been making cameras for 100+ years - Blackmagic have come a long way in just the three years they've been making cameras; even RED have come a long way since the initial RED One 8ish years ago.
The interesting thing is - what will always separate the 'men from the boys' is the way that people are able tell a story through the lens, with the creative use of lensing, lighting, camera movement, and also camera model or shooting format.
Personally, I think the advent of 'camera bloggers' has done the greatest dis-service to the artistry of Cinematography, as it becomes all about specs - and people get paid to endorse this or that camera.
We have blogs all around the internet where people are saying 'buy this camera over that one because this one has .7 of a stop more dynamic range and shoots in 2k rather than just HD' - and people listen and buy, despite not really knowing what any of that really means at the end of it (i.e. why would you want to shoot 2k over normal HD, and do you need to do so?)
Where are the blogs saying 'Get whatever camera you can afford - get on sets and watch the camera and lighting teams work, and practice and hone your lighting skills. Shoot anything and everything that comes up and continually work to better yourself. Care less about whether you've got the best camera, and who has a better camera than you - and care more about the work you're doing. The stories you're telling. Does it work? Great. Who cares then if it was shot on a GH4 or an A7s or a Canon or a Blackmagic. If it works, and you and the client (or Director) are happy - then that's all that matters'
You should work towards continually bettering yourself, not continually bettering the camera you buy.
When you watch Grant Petty talking about the Ursa Mini he was saying that the original BMCC was designed to be used handheld without rigging (!) and that when people started to rig up their CCs and PCCs they realised that the users wanted something with a more professional design philosophy and feature-set.
Which is kinda bizarre since the BMCC felt like they'd built it without looking at any other cameras or how people used them. In many ways it feels like they're making it up as they go and learning from user feedback what their customers want (which is great because they seem pretty focussed on delivering that).
But by not 'standing on the shoulders of giants' they're having to learn everything the hard way - still, I'm pretty happy with the rather quirky products they make and they certainly seem to be making some good decisions now.
This looks great, not been as excited about a new camera as this in ages.
It seems to cover all bases....
Can this genuinely be called a "Game Changer"?
It seems to cover all bases....
Can this genuinely be called a "Game Changer"?
For me there's three gotchas:
1) it doesn't come with the shoulder-mount and the EVF - those add an extra $1,900 to the price.
2) it doesn't look like the Ursa Mini has particularly stellar low-light performance - native ISO is said to be 800 (same as the Cinema Camera/Pocket) - no Speed Booster either.
3) cost of compact flash cards is still high (though steadily falling).
If all you've got to spend on a camera is $3,000 I'd give the Ursa Mini a miss and look at something cheaper to get some good glass and all the accessories you need within that budget.
If you've got $6,000-$10,000 to spend on a camera plus accessories then the Mini Ursa could well be the camera you're looking for.
- You don't have to buy Blackmagic's shoulder mount or EVF (any rig and SDI EVF will do).
- I don't need stellar low light performance.
- As you say, CF 2.0 card prices are coming down.
I am going to sell all of my 1080p cameras and buy the plain vanilla URSA Mini for $2995 and rig it up myself. If it gives me the same sensor performance and RAW/ProRes recording options as the Blackmagic Production Camera 4K or the classic URSA in a 7 lb magnesium body with XLR inputs and a V mount, it will be a game changer for me
- I don't need stellar low light performance.
- As you say, CF 2.0 card prices are coming down.
I am going to sell all of my 1080p cameras and buy the plain vanilla URSA Mini for $2995 and rig it up myself. If it gives me the same sensor performance and RAW/ProRes recording options as the Blackmagic Production Camera 4K or the classic URSA in a 7 lb magnesium body with XLR inputs and a V mount, it will be a game changer for me
They had 2 main concerns:
- can we attach a lens?
- can it be machined from 1 piece in 1 run?
(a few years ago I talked to a rep: he admitted the internal baterry being non-changeable was a decision based on makig the construction and production of the camera easier for them.)
There are so many cameras to choose from now...
At the moment I just rent if I need more than my EX1R. Saves me the headache of comparing over 20 cameras
Used a FS7 last week, this week I'll shoot with a C100 MkII + Ninja.
Most projects I do don't have the time and budget for elaborate colorgrading, so I don't use BMD cameras for those projects.
But it is good to see they slimmed the URSA beast a bit down: although that camera looks cool, it felt a bit like overkill for a lot of situations.
Name *one* FHD EVF that you can buy for less than $1500? You can't! (heck, does a FHD EVF even exist at any other price at all??)
So yeah, it strikes me as yet another great deal from BMD! Though I'm a tight budget too.... so still on the fence about getting it with the URSA Mini. Probably just use the BMD VA on a magic arm for framing when the URSA Mini is on the shoulder (as I'm going to get the BMD VA no matter what).
Wrong, the URSA-M4.6K has a slightly bigger sensor than the C100mk2. But what does it really matter, they're both roughly "Super 35mm" sensors.
However, the C100mk2 does only have 1080 vs 4.6K resolution. And lower higher speed fps, and no raw. Oh, and the USRA-M4.6K at $5k is $500 *cheaper* than the C100mk2!! Not the other way round.
Even when compared to the C300 (mk1 or mk2), the C300 still comes across as lower specced in resolution, dynamic range, lacking raw, and slower fps.
The C100mk2 (& C300) has its own nice little niche, but I do regard it as being very overpriced, and a vastly more unsuitable camera for narrative filmmaking (which is what most of us are here for) than the URSA Mini 4.6K will be.
True.... BUT:
a) although that model might get announced only half a year after you get yours, they probably won't start shipping until a full year after you get yours. So not such a big loss.
b) BMD "usually" tends to bring out rather surprising cameras, and usually not just simple upgrades of their previous cameras. For instance who'd have predicted the BMMCC??? Or the studio cameras which were announced the year before? Nope, not me! So I suspect it might be another two years or more, and not just one year, before the next model in the URSA series comes out. After all, both the BMCC and BMPCC owners are still waiting years later for their "mark 2" model to come out (yes, you could argue the BMPC4K and BMMCC is that..... but many BMCC/BMPCC owners would strongly disagree with that, because they're for quite difference niches).
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Yes, but now I'm at the stage where I want to achieve more. I want 10 bit, 4:2:2 full-frame with 4k from a company that can actually deliver this. I'm thinking a Sony FS7 (Canon would be fantastic). There is also the 'impress the customer' factor.
I use 4k, 10 bit 4:2:2 is really useful for occasional shoots and although I am a hobbyist, I earn money from this (at one point, more money than my day job!) This is what I have been doing and 4:2:2, 10 bit, 4k full frame would've been incredibly useful for both.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etT4rVrGyXc
https://vimeo.com/paulrwalker/review/84971935/ccf932163f
Sure, I want to tell great stories but from a visuals perspective, I want that bit more.