Guerilla Filming --- Consequences??

So... if someone shoots a scene somewhere without any permission, and they put that scene into their movie --- can the person who legally owns the property spot their property on the video, and sue the filmmaker for shooting illegally on their property??

What about State Parks? County parks? What is the usual consequence to shooting guerilla style, with no written or verbal permissions? Do most guerilla filmmakers get away with it?

The guy that shot a movie in Disney World -- did he get away with it?

I am a zero-budget filmmaker. Every time I ask permission to shoot somewhere, the owner starts asking me if i have insurance. The insurance is soooo expensive, I simply can't afford it.

Any thoughts on this subject would be greatly appreciated.............
 
I am a zero-budget filmmaker. Every time I ask permission to shoot somewhere, the owner starts asking me if i have insurance. The insurance is soooo expensive, I simply can't afford it.


Be careful - legal fees are more expensive than insurance.


I have a lot of experience shooting guerilla - something I've done way too often and many users here have advised against. They're right, it's not the best idea sometimes - But, you do what you have to do... within reason.

I've filmed in state parks, city blocks, and on public property very frequently. I've only been approached once or twice, and at the worst, they ask you to leave. It's not unless you're doing something incredibly disruptive would they pursue legal action or anything more than a polite reminder you can't be there. That said, private property is different, and obviously someone will be PO'd if you're just filming on their property randomly.

I always got away with saying I was a film student doing a class project - Was it true? Like once or twice.

Again, if you have a boom operator and a camera, you may not be bugged too much if you're inconspicuous and filming dialogue or something small. If you're trying to shoot something massive on public property or in a crowded place... Yeah, don't try.

I've actually jay-walked (Jay Leno style, asking pedestrians questions) before and had a great time. You just ask people before interviewing them. Got kicked out of one mall, the other was totally fine with it.

We also use to shoot public property pranks - I showed up in a full size TARDIS dressed as Doctor Who in the middle of an outdoor mall last summer. I think the security guards were too confused to mess with us, and most people got a kick out of it. (We did it around the 50th anniversary, so the fanfare was intense for Dr. Who)

All of that said... it depends on what you're doing. If you're running around with fake guns, you're going to get your ass shot by a cop. Use common sense.
 
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Just let your imagination run wild; anything might happen, with the most catastrophic financial and legal consequences. Or nothing may happen. It will all depend upon how litigious the "offended" party is feeling. Mostly it will depend upon how profitable the project has been - if it makes a lot of money the litigants will come crawling out of the woodwork. Also watch out for bureaucrats who have to make it look like they are actually doing their jobs.

The insurance is soooo expensive, I simply can't afford it.

You may want to look into joining - or forming - a film collective. There are a few here in the NY Metro area; the collective members pool their gear and have a "blanket" production insurance policy that is paid for, on an annual basis, by the members of the collective. It's similar to the type of insurance film schools have and not too terribly expensive once the cost is parsed out amongst the members. One caveat of which I'm aware, although I'm sure there are many more; you absolutely, without question, must have all of your other paperwork (releases, permits, etc.) 100% in order or the policy will not pay out in the event an incident occurs.
 
So... if someone shoots a scene somewhere without any permission, and they put that scene into their movie --- can the person who legally owns the property spot their property on the video, and sue the filmmaker for shooting illegally on their property??
A good question. Not about how to get away with shooting but what are the
potential legal issues a filmmaker could face AFTER[?b] the movie is made.

Most get away with it. Most private property owners will never see your movie.
Most government agencies will not sue after the fact.
The guy that shot a movie in Disney World -- did he get away with it?
He did. Disney decided not to pursue legal action. Pretty lucky.
 
Assuming nothing tragic happens on set, your biggest issues would be with distribution. If the locations you used were easily recognizable, and private, it's possible (although not likely) that someone could hold up distribution of your film - even if you managed to successfully defend yourself in court, distributors might not want to take a risk on there being other possible claims.

In fact, even if you don't have any actual legal action pending, distributors will likely be wary - you'll probably need an errors & omissions insurance policy to indemnify yourself and the distributors against potential claims. I'm not sure if the insurance company would require releases for locations on an E&O policy - they certainly will for performers, music, etc.

If you're not seeking distribution, then the consequences are probably pretty slight; I suppose someone might be able to get your film removed from youtube, etc, although I'm not sure what the procedure for that would be - it doesn't necessarily fall under a standard DMCA takedown.
 
I thought you could shoot in public places and it was okay to show them, as long you did not show any signs of company logos anywhere. That seems to be what a lot of people in Vancouver, are doing, shooting without permission and then removing the company names and logos in post.

If shooting in public places is still illegal, then those filmmakers may have dangerous consequences ahead.
 
It varies from place to place; but generally in public it's a question of whether you need a permit to shoot or not, which is a different question. If you need a permit, and don't have one, then it's entirely possible the police will show up and shut you down and you won't be able to get all the shots you need. If that doesn't happen, and you get all your shots, then afterwards I don't think there's a situation where the city would be likely or necessarily even able to come after you for using the shots.

The original question implied shooting on private property though - stating that the owner was asking for insurance, etc, when asked for permission to shoot. At that point if you shot without permission you'd technically be trespassing, and your film itself is evidence of that trespass even if you didn't get caught in the act. I'd be pretty wary about that kind of thing, especially if you were in a state with a strong 'castle doctrine' law.
 
Okay thanks, that's good to know. I did a short film where they were doing shoots in public without permission, with fake guns, and it was the sake thing. Get all the shots fast, and get out of there. I didn't know the producer/director didn't have permission till shooting started and he told us we need to work fast, and don't hold the assault rifles by the grips in between takes.

I told him rather sarcastically, that next time he should get a guy who's job is listen in on a police radio scanner, to see if any cops are being dispatched to come get us, so we have time to scram.
 
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Just shoot it. If your background is close to a logo/brand, get it out of the shot. Be creative. If the logo is in the distance, it's accepted as part of life. Just shoot. Stop worrying. Just shoot.
 
don't hold the assault rifles by the grips in between takes.

That's a whole new level of stupidity. Never shoot with fake guns in public (or on private property in public view) without permission. Nobody cares how you're holding the guns, only that you are. I ended up with a dozen police with guns drawn surrounding our crew over a single squirt gun painted black - and that was over 20 years ago. Nowadays the police are far more likely to respond with SWAT in MRAPs at any hint of someone with a gun.

The whole key to successful "guerrilla filmmaking" is to not attract much attention to yourself. If you do get caught you want it to be a situation where they tell you just to move along, not one where they could potentially charge you with a crime - or start shooting. Don't disrupt traffic, don't destroy property, and don't ever go waving guns around.
 
Although it's never smart.... if you're using weapons like guns that are props in a short or whatever... I say always use a "Props Guns in Use" sign or something similar, regardless if you have permission or not.

You may have permission from the property owner and the police may have been notified, but you never know when a random person feels like "being a hero" and uses their permitted firearm on you in "self-defense".
 
For sure. Where I live people are not allowed to carry their permitted firearms into public places in the city, so that shouldn't be a problem.

But if it were me, I definitely would have gotten permission from the property owner, and notified the police. When I was acting in that short, I was ready to drop my rifle, at the sounds of sirens growing near.
 
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For sure. Where I live people are not allowed to carry their permitted firearms into public places in the city, so that shouldn't be a problem.

But if it were me, I definitely would have gotten permission from the property owner, and notified the police. When I was acting in that short, I was ready to drop my rifle, at the sounds of sirens growing near.

There are numerous occupations which have federal permits to carry a firearm even when off-duty. Never take unneeded risks.
 
I didn't know the producer/director didn't have permission till shooting started ...

Do you mean; until filming started, or do you mean; until a SWAT team or Armed Response Unit opened fire on you?!!!

Many amateur filmmakers get all defensive when professionals call them "amateur" instead of "indie" because they don't understand the difference. In this instance, the difference is between common sense/basic respect for cast/crew safety and being an utter moron. You obviously don't seem to be bothered by being associated with or as "an utter moron". I on the other hand am, I would not have even have agreed to turn up to this type of shoot without dafety assurances and then I would leave immediately if there were insufficient safety measures!

G
 
If shooting in public places is still illegal, then those filmmakers may have dangerous consequences ahead.

It's not illegal it's just something a lot of park owners, police officers, etc. don't want. You can't get arrested for it (unless you're trespassing somewhere) all they can do is ask you to leave.
 
That's not necessarily true - it depends entirely on where you are. In larger cities especially filming without a permit may be a misdemeanor, and can be subject to fines - and in some places (like LA) possible arrest and temporary confiscation of equipment.

You just need to do some research to find out what the laws are in the city you plan to shoot. For instance, in New York you can generally shoot without a permit as long as you are using handheld equipment only (which can include tripods) and no vehicles - unless you are obstructing a lane of traffic or sidewalk. They have very specific definitions of what obstruction is - you may think that you're not obstructing the sidewalk because people can get around you, however if there isn't at least 8 feet of unobstructed sidewalk they could cite you for shooting without a permit. The penalty is a fine up to $500 or up to 90 days in jail. The law leaves plenty of room to do "guerrilla" filmmaking in the city while still being legal, but if you don't know what the specific rules are it would be very easy to violate them and cross over into illegal territory.
 
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I mean until filmming started. I do not consider myself an utter moron. I agree to act in the scene spur the moment, cause the director needed an extra 'henchman'. As he put it. I did not have much time to go over the script, when I went down there, and I did not know he did not bother to get permission to shoot in a public location with guns being used as props.

I was tricked into it and he got the shots quickly, and we got out of there. And he was constantly telling people that it was a movie shoot, and with the camera's and mics around, they all seem to buy it, and could tell the difference, between that compared to a real hold up. Still risky though, I know. I guess I am a filmmaking soldier who follows orders, and like most soldiers, they will follow orders to a certain degree, cause they believe in their cause. I just hate it when actors leave everyone in the lurch, and a movie does not get finished and becomes a waist. It was very hard to leave everyone in the lurch. But next time I will be more careful.
 
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I wouldn't refer to it as "moronic" but it certainly is risky. Especially here in America, where cops tend to shoot first, beat the crap out of you when you're on the ground second, arrest third, set a court date fourth, and ask questions fifth
 
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