For those that have an interest...

[don patterson]

Several fellow Indietalk.com members wanted to read DOWN. I am putting it up for any that want the trip.

Be fore-warned:

THIS 95 page script has an ending that some may consider as extremely controversial, (due to subject matter not language or specific visuals).

Without giving away any spoilers, my goal was to create an ALICE IN WONDERLAND styled-quest. A contemporary visual based upon the religious art works of Hieronymus Bosch (Garden of Earthly Delights). I am still fine-tuning this script, but it has been proofed, typo checked, writen and rewritten over twenty times, read and re-read by many. Copyrighted back in 2009. Was a quarter-finalist in The American Scriptwriting Competition several years ago. This is the first time it has been uploaded anywhere since it was completely rewritten.

My wife laughs, joking that I might be trying to start a new religion with this script. LOL. I am no L. Ron Hubbard! But I do like to warn those in advance -- this script could be considered as being very controversial by those that are religious. Don't need any enemies.

Premise -- What if ALL religions were TRUE?

Comments are welcomed. Feel free to pass Scripts on (all are copyrighted).

If you have an interest in other scripts, (I have 2 here are two more. Be aware, fellow IndieTalk member, Arrodiii (thanks) correctly found a few errors in WILLIE's PDR (but I can't go back and change due to Amazon Studio's 18 month imprisonment of script would start all over again):

THE SOUND OF NIGHTMARES (almost imprisoned the sequel, THE POWER OF NIGHTMARES on AS for 18 months too). Hard edged science-fiction.

WILLIE

If there is enough interest -- will post more scripts. If not, I will fade away quietly. I am not rich or famous -- I have a lot of fun screenwriting.

 

[kinglis]

I'm on 61 page of THE SOUND OF NIGHTMARES and I'm loving it so far...

 

[kinglis]

THE SOUND OF NIGHTMARES

EDIT: SPOILER ALERT

The story is really interesting. When I was busy and had to stop reading the script, I'd catch myself thinking about it and wanting to go back to reading it as soon as possible.

It's well written, no question about it. The overshadowing is good. I like the details you go into characterizing the protagonists. You build the tension well. There was a good climax and I liked the ending when they all go to planet Earth. At the end I thought: Wow now it's getting really interesting! So a sequel is a good idea!

Question :

What happened with the newly wed couple in the beginning of the script and why do you need them in the script?

Why you never use "and' in the description? (I'm not saying it's bad, but It was gonna be an easier read for me)

Recommendation:

If there was a love story, I was gonna rate it 10 out of 10!!

 

[kinglis]

I'm gonna read DOWN and give you a feedback soon.

 

[CHamburger]

Really liking Down so far. Let you know more when I can finish.

 

[don patterson]

In the sequel THE POWER OF NIGHTMARES (as it is written now),

WARNING SPOILERS !

Chris Mass shines as a hit man, going after the TEEL (human herders) that are in control, manipulating culture, religion and governments on Earth.

Athame has worked her way up through the WHO, covertly spreading the avian-styled viruses while incorporating the developed vaccine. Poisoning the TEEL food. Us.

There is a slow building, hot love story between Athame and Mass, my approach is to have the love scenes torrid at times; a very passionate love story running through the WHOLE trilogy, not just one part... keep the passion alive for 6 hours! Keep pulling the audience's heart strings with apprehension and longing. I am somewhat of a romantic even when violence is on the horizon.

The other characters are also active... in the two sequels that make up the trilogy.



The newlywed couple was important in the first scene for several reasons.

1) newlyweds at a somewhat deserted beach resort -- why deserted?

2) importance of having many children on Mass's world.

3) set up for Mass on a deserted beach with VA.

4) Mass being retired. Where would a retired hit man go? Even on another world?


I like to cut my words down. I try to remove as many AND(s), THE(s) and other words that do not move the story forward. Striving to advance story as minimal as possible.

 

[Nate North]

Working on Willie and Down now. Just got out of deadline hell.

I'm really exited to read Down, as I'm interested in the theme itself. (been thinking for a while what strange twist it would be if reincarnation was actually the christian hell. If you think about some of the biblical references about hell being on earth, and the many similarities between global religious variants, it makes a lot of sense for a fiction concept.)

Also, I'm always looking for a chance to animate the surreal at photorealism.

Check out this guy named Run Wrake, a little off topic, but after our phone conversation, I think you'd appreciate his jagged acidic work.

Maybe Rabbit would be a good pick.

 

[don patterson]

DOWN goes way beyond reincarnation in pushing the abstract concept of GOD to it's fullest... I think DOWN is equally about the concept of ETERNITY. DOWN is abridged (on the script PDF file listed above for IndieTalk members to read), I have lots of notes, concepts, directorial and cinema graphic ideas that make DOWN even darker, more visual.

DOWN could be a cgi specialist's dream -- push the envelope with no boundaries!

How dark can one be?

Played with the just-how-sexy-and-evil-can-women (and men) be? Perfect catalyst for actresses and actors that wants to push the extremes of their talents. Maybe a tad twisted. But isn't that what religion's preach as their push on fear? Even back in the days of Hieronymus Bosch?

Just read about the new software CGI system from axyz-design, too. Nate, ready to roll when you are. After you read those three, have 25 more scripts... LOL.

 

[Kholi]

Thanks for uploading DOWN, Don. Glad that I could catch a little read, finally.

I'm going to share some thoughts with you, but feel free to discard them or tell me to go to hell, as my word isn't any gospel... just speaking from experience.

After reading the first pages of both DOWN and THE SOUND OF NIGHTMARES, here's advice you can take or leave:

Most importantly, your sentence structure may make it hard for a reader/assistant to find a flow, and they may turn on the "new to this" switch if it comes across their desk. You're missing a lot of pronouns that make the read choppy. I'm not sure if that's on purpose? Also, the lack of "a" to connect ideas is distracting.

The short of it is, if a reader can't easily find a pace through the structure then it becomes a chore to read. You want it to be a joy.

The other thing that I took away is that everyone sounds the same: so far, most of your characters leave out prepositions when speaking. It's less a matter of taste, this critique, and more a matter of defining characters through dialogue which, as I'm sure you know already, is pretty detrimental if not achieved properly.

Last, as far as structure goes, I would probably suggest reading through your material to make sure that your details are organized for an easy read. Descriptions in parenthesis, while an old method, are helpful for the script reader's mind to organize characters. Also, unless you're witholding details on the character that the script reader doesn't need to know just yet, you also want to drop important notes on clothes as soon as you introduce a new character.

Doing it afterward forces me to go back to the character intro and re-read for this detail, so I know what the situation is, then continue on. That breaks my flow.


Other than that, sound concepts. In the next drafts, maybe think more about the importance of characters to the plot, versus plot to the characters. For example....

SPOILER ALERT

In SOUND OF NIGHTMARES, as soon as you arrive in the script you see Mass and everyone in his world knows he's cool. However, there's nothing that has occurred before hand to show the audience that he's cool, or a great hit man, or even a person worthy of our attention.

When you have Va come along offering him pleasure and a job, I am further detached from that character because I have no idea who he is or why he deserves to be offered any of this.

The response to that, I would guess, is "well, you learn that as you go along." Which is fair enough.

Remember this one: a script reader will always find the bad about a script before the good, so you have to come out of the gate smashing people's heads in with effective scenes. If you make it hard for them to read your material, they will take it personally, and you may lose an opportunity that you otherwise deserve.

Good luck with the rewrites, sir.

 

[don patterson]

Kholi,

Have a lot of respect for your comments, understand much of what you write above, your words are RIGHT ON, do not be defensive, for I appreciate your valid comments.

Lack of joy in reading, probably why my scripts get high marks on premise (5 stars out of 5), sometimes lower on dialogue, character (average 3 or 4 out of 5).

Everyone reads one of my works-in-progress differently, seeing what they want to see within story, I try not to limit or restrict their horizon(s). Let me clarify, until script is bought or made, script will always be a work-in-progress.

You are correct in many of your assessments. As are others in theirs...

Not trying to defend myself, just trying to explain how i work with words (for good or bad).

On word limits -- bare to the bone whenever possible. Some like. Some do not. Why do I write such?

I hope a reader can go through one of my scripts in about an hour or less.

I look @ complete script knowing director is going to make changes in 'his' way of seeing story (making story his), just as an actor will do with character & dialogue, cinematographer with camera, etc.

Key for me is to take reader somewhere new with as much white on page, as few pages as possible. Put meat-on-the-bone in development or pre production. So much depends on budgeting anyway. Director. Producer. Casting. Locations. Etc.

Example, when you give a description such as HITMAN, many preconceived images surface based upon who you say HITMAN to. Our culture has defined HITMAN, though there is room to move within such concept -- we all have preconceived image(s) in our heads. E.G. Lucky Number Slevin (2006) or The Mechanic (2011) or No Country For Old Men (2007) or etc. -- define such. I leave those specifics of interpretation in the meat-on-the-bone process (by director, cast, producers, etc.). In THE SOUND OF NIGHTMARES script -- I never call MASS a hit man, 2+2=4. I do not relish MASS as 'cool' -- he likes 'hot', he is retired thus he is forced (manipulated by the yet-unexplained, barely audible 'whine') into a 'job' (by the yet-unexplained VA) that turns out to be a 'hit' as story progresses.

I dive into story. Eventually, everything gets explained within script. You are right, sometimes it is on page 10 or page 50 not page 5 when first brought up. Moving story forward is priority number one for me. Story should unfold. I want audience (or reader) to put 2+2 = 4, pushing 'surprise' at every corner.

DOWN is another example of leaving interpretation to reader. Yes, I could go into details, E.G. Shearer as a specialist in Cognitive Behavior Therapy & Disorders, but that could take up valuable story (page) space. How he dresses -- how does a psychiatrist dress? In same breath, we have Mary, IT IS important that she is expensively over dressed for a secretary. Visuals (words in script) eventually get explained. Audience wonders? Great! Call them clues, conscious or not. It IS visual!

Visuals... especially when unexpected, hitting with powerful punches, while audience's (reader's) guard is down or not locked/focused, trying to be careful with specifying or explaining -- until 'discovered', needed to be explained.

Script should be food for the imagination of director, actor, or cinematographer.

Last. Call me a minimalist with words -- I do not like AND, THE, in most cases A. Just want to keep hitting with visuals, what one will see or hear (yes, I use AND , THE or A in dialogue), but in action -- who sees AND? THE?

Bad English? Maybe. But keeping word count, page count down? Proper trade off?

Still laughing at myself... maybe I should have a disclaimer as a forward to each script? "Does not use AND, THE or A in most ACTION DESCRIPTIONS".

MOST IMPORTANT, Kholi, what did you think of premise (story)?

Who would you want to see portray an individual character from within script?

Would you pay $$$$ to see this movie on a theater screen?

Hopefully that will sell script. Solid story, good pace -- keeping it visual!

 

[Kholi]

I hope a reader can go through one of my scripts in about an hour or less.

Last. Call me a minimalist with words -- I do not like AND, THE, in most cases A. Just want to keep hitting with visuals, what one will see or hear (yes, I use AND , THE or A in dialogue), but in action -- who sees AND? THE?

Bad English? Maybe. But keeping word count, page count down? Proper trade off?

An hour or less is a good time. In this case, as someone who reads scripts from serious producers (with movies that are household franchises) that are friends, that's my advice.

The page count is NOT as important as a smooth read, at all. I've read 120+ page drafts from writers with produced content, the reads are enjoyable enough for me to read them on my iPhone, iPad, and my laptop.

I don't stop reading, I finish them in one sitting, even when the premise is actually pretty old (Hockey players reunite to win their local championship game... old, but I'll tell you that was a very great read.)

I look @ complete script knowing director is going to make changes in 'his' way of seeing story (making story his), just as an actor will do with character & dialogue, cinematographer with camera, etc.

Key for me is to take reader somewhere new with as much white on page, as few pages as possible. Put meat-on-the-bone in development or pre production. So much depends on budgeting anyway. Director. Producer. Casting. Locations. Etc.

So, here is where I'd ask: are you a writer or are you a producer? Right now, you sound like a producer, not a writer. A writer is not limited to any of the things that you're referring too and shouldn't be considering that at all unless they plan on producing as well.

A writer's job is to write a full fledged story that engages. After the pages are down, that's out of your hands (unless you're in television, which is a writer's medium not a director's).

Although it may be your way of working, which is fine, from what I've read so far it may be hindering your ability.

I never call MASS a hit man, 2+2=4. I do not relish MASS as 'cool' -- he likes 'hot', he is retired thus he is forced (manipulated by the yet-unexplained, barely audible 'whine') into a 'job' (by the yet-unexplained VA) that turns out to be a 'hit' as story progresses.

Your synopsis refers to him as a hitman. I'm predisposed to the idea, the script's job is to show this. So, yeah, since your foreword tells the reader what to expect, you pretty much have to make good on your promise.

If that makes sense?

I dive into story. Eventually, everything gets explained within script. You are right, sometimes it is on page 10 or page 50 not page 5 when first brought up. Moving story forward is priority number one for me. Story should unfold. I want audience (or reader) to put 2+2 = 4, pushing 'surprise' at every corner.

This is fine. Sofia Coppolla's scripts are slow, boring, etc. Learn rules, then you break them. But, break them effectively.

If your characters are uninteresting to start with, you aren't going to carry a reader (especially not one that's going to get you a real sell/option) to page fifty (50) where they become cool or interesting.

DOWN is another example of leaving interpretation to reader. Yes, I could go into details, E.G. Shearer as a specialist in Cognitive Behavior Therapy & Disorders, but that could take up valuable story (page) space. How he dresses -- how does a psychiatrist dress? In same breath, we have Mary, IT IS important that she is expensively over dressed for a secretary. Visuals (words in script) eventually get explained. Audience wonders? Great! Call them clues, conscious or not. It IS visual!

Oh the clothes thing, I meant that you should probably write "tattered clothing" in with the original description, versus putting it two lines later. It becomes confusing for the read, forces the reader to backtrack and disorients. That was my point. I should have explained it better.

Script should be food for the imagination of director, actor, or cinematographer.

Honestly? Scripts should be like blueprints to sales. That's what gets your script sold. Unless you're writing for leisure? Yeah, there's room for imagination, but know that you sell a movie by writing a movie that sales.

Still laughing at myself... maybe I should have a disclaimer as a forward to each script? "Does not use AND, THE or A in most ACTION DESCRIPTIONS".

To each their own style, and hopefully it didn't come off the wrong way! Sorry if it did. It was a suggestion from this side of the fence, and only that.

MOST IMPORTANT, Kholi, what did you think of premise (story)?

Who would you want to see portray an individual character from within script?

Would you pay $$$$ to see this movie on a theater screen?

I would not. Not in the state that it's in, personally. But, that's just me. If you have other reviews that are glowing then that too can serve as a testament.

For me, immediately, I see characters that are deserving just because I'm told they are, not because I see that they are. In NIGHTMARES I was presented with a typical bar tender that tells jokes and a new bride that looks like she may be unfaithful.

I got the sense that a woman was basically handing over other women to some guy who likes hot drinks, but why?

If I don't like anyone in the first 15-20 pages, and I don't know what's going on that's a pair of large negatives out of the gate.

Now, with all of that said, you can get away with all of that if you have contacts. So, it's all pretty moot.

Again, I'm just sharing my knowledge from experience working with, and around, producers and serious writers.

Hopefully it didn't come off the wrong way.

 

[don patterson]

Thanks Kholi. Still learning just how much I have yet to learn.

1) Need to write a smoother read.
2) Sound too much like a producer, not a writer -- I am hindering my ability.
3) Remove Mass as a hit man in synopsis, it is not an integral part of story until the sequel, THE POWER OF NIGHTMARES (part two of trilogy).
4) Characters are boring, make them more interesting.
5) Clothing sooner rather than later.
6) Make stories better blue prints -- I am not a producer.
7) Add AND(s), THE(s) and A(s).

I see characters that are deserving just because I'm told they are, not because I see that they are. In NIGHTMARES I was presented with a typical bar tender that tells jokes and a new bride that looks like she may be unfaithful.

I never promote MASS as being 'cool', or special, or tout my characters as unique. I am just trying to tell a story in proper progression.

Speaking of which. In the story -- promoting population growth on Mass's world (which is not Earth) -- in any way or means possible is culturally, governmentally approved, in fact, highly praised. Large families are prayed for (even by different fathers outside of marriage). Sex is treated differently among married couples (this is NOT Earth culture). One might have to read more than the first 10 pages -- but, I have to do a better job of writing first, I understand.

I got the sense that a woman was basically handing over other women to some guy who likes hot drinks, but why?

Mass is a retired 'old' guy.
Living in a resort town.
He drinks a hot pepper drink (once again -- keep in mind that this is NOT on Earth -- you must not have got that far in the script) every morning before wandering down to the deserted beach -- styles, culture, food, drinks are going to be different, IT IS A DIFFERENT WORLD.

VA is not what you think. Neither are the three women on the beach.

I really appreciate your comments (I am not being sarcastic -- I am being sincere). You did not come off the wrong way. I am not thin-skinned. But I do not know how anyone can read the first 5 or 10 pages and know the story. You are probably a lot wiser than I, have more contacts, read more scripts, know far more about filmmaking than I do, etc. But I stick to my point above, when I say

I dive into story. Eventually, everything gets explained within script. You are right, sometimes it is on page 10 or page 50 not page 5 when first brought up. Moving story forward is priority number one for me. Story should unfold. I want audience (or reader) to put 2+2 = 4, pushing 'surprise' at every corner.

 

[Kholi]

I really appreciate your comments (I am not being sarcastic -- I am being sincere). You did not come off the wrong way. I am not thin-skinned. But I do not know how anyone can read the first 5 or 10 pages and know the story. You are probably a lot wiser than I, have more contacts, read more scripts, know far more about filmmaking than I do, etc. But I stick to my point above, when I say

Alrighty, well, I can't respond to the rest of the post because it would go 'round in circles and, honestly, I know writers because I write. We are all slightly difficult to get through to unless we regard the other person's work highly.

Let me try this, though... and, take it with a huge grain of salt.

Do you know if you want to eat an entire meal or not after the first few bites? If it tastes like gold, stay and eat. Cardboard Flavored? Well, I'd pass and go and get McDonald's (or play Street Fighter, either one)

Do you know if you want to sit through a movie after the first ten minutes? If I see horrible cinematography or bad audio that's out of context, I turn it off. If I see great cinematography, I'll watch it.

The same applies for reading someone's script: if it doesn't start off strong or tasty, why should I keep reading it???

This goes for anyone that hasn't had the experience of being read by execs and the assistants of these people:

I'll bet my valuables that anyone who's going to pay for your material will tell you the exact same thing. You've got about 15-20 pages to get someone who's going to pass your material on to a contact, or pay for it directly, invested. If you haven't done that in the first twenty pages, not only are you going to make some poor script assistant very mad, but, they're more than likely to also give your script really bad coverage, tell the person their reading for "don't waste your time like I did" and probably will never take a script from you again unless the premise/concept is gold in a single line, or someone makes them read it.

Unfortunately, you won't hear the same kind of feedback that you're getting here. Here's what a formal rejection letter reads like:

"Dear Sir,

Thanks for submitting your material. Unfortunately, we do not accept unsolicited material.

Have a nice day."

Or--

"Dear Sir,

Thanks for submitting your material. After having my assistant read your script, we've decided that we are not looking for this kind of content at the moment.

Thank you."



There won't be an invite to give them other material.

Make it count.

 

[don patterson]

Clearly, I am not as wise or talented as you. I do not have the contacts or history that you seem to have.

Please pass on the reading of my poorly written scripts for they are obviously NOT your cup of tea.

While I did seek for those on Indietalk "that might have an an interest" (title of thread), you obviously don't. This was not an attempt for acceptance (or formal rejection) by a studio. This was my putting up -- three scripts for any to read that might have an interest or might want to comment. Positive or negative.

My feelings are not hurt. I will not stop writing. But I will take your well-meant comments, try to learn from them, with hopes of becoming a better writer.

I too have read the scripts of others, while I may not be as good of a writer or reader as you are, I have learned much from even the poorest written (of what NOT to do). I understand that styles do differ amongst writers, but always read at least 30 pages before I even start to assume where a script may lead. Or not.

I understand that some writers over inflate their quality of work. I sincerely hope I did not come across doing that. I did not put my work up here seeking praise, I did so for honest responses from fellow IndieTalk members.

Kholi, I have received yours, for that I thank you.

My only point was, that you have raised questions within the script THAT ARE answered, also you have made statements, I know not where they come from.

But, this is a moot point. You have no interest in my work. Fine. I have no way of judging or comparing yours so that I may better learn my weaknesses from your strengths. Such is life.

Thank you for your time. I will now fade away.