Fluorescent or Tungsten?

[Jona816]

Ok, this may be a dumb question but I have tried searching and I am clueless about lighting, but I am just wondering what are the pros and cons having either a fluorescent or tungsten light? I know that Tungsten produces hard light and Fluorescent produces soft.

Also, in the realm of Tungsten, what wattages are recommended. I've read somewhere that having (1) 200-250 watt, (2) 500 watts and (1) 1000 Watt is good for starters. Just looking to see what works for others here. By the way, for the most part I will be shooting shorts indoors in small spaces but would not mind having a 1000 watt light just in case we do shoot in larger rooms. Then again, if I do go the fluorescent route, how many lights, fixtures, etc. is recommended?

My main dilemma is just trying to figure which route to go, Tungsten or Fluorescent?

Thanks in advance for nay help.

Jona

 

[wheatgrinder]

ah, its not which is better.. its which is correct for the situation..
Its more a question of "White Balance" than anything else. You need to do some experimenting to figure this out.. I did mine and here is the result..

http://www.vimeo.com/8056743

If you watch that video, notices how the color of "white" changes. In the first shot its "WB" correctly, and the white looks, well White! In the second, my camera WB is set to "outdoors" but Im indoors under tungsten lights so white dosent look so WHITE... As White is the color of all colors, this effects EVERY other color of your scene.. Now this shot was at night, so there was no sunlight coming in the windows.. If it had been day, then the tungsten lights would have clashed with the sunlight and WB would be off.

In this next shot, its day time outside, lots of light coming in the windows, AND Im using tungsten lights.. but I learned a trick on this forum. You can use blue lighting gell to make your yellowish tungsten lights match sunlight and here you see the results. White looks White.. http://www.vimeo.com/9477856 (thers not a lot of white content, but notices the shirt cuff.. )


The more light the better, depending on what your doing 1000W indoors might not be enough for even a small room. Cameras dont see the way we do, so double what you think is "bright" and youll be close

Also, my trick above with the blue gel results in HALF the light getting past the gel so my BRIGHT 500W work light yielded about 250 Watts of light for that shot.. you can see how dark it was, good exposure, but not too bright as you might expect.

 

[2001 Productions]

One advantage to florescent fixtures is their low wattage consumption, compared to tungsten lamps. They aren't as bright as halogen fixtures, but you can plug a dozen of them into a single circuit without overloading it. You can also buy them in various color temps to match daylight or tungsten and, as you observed, they're pre-diffused.

Disadvantage is they are not directional and therefore more difficult to control.

 

[Brooksy]

Ok, this may be a dumb question but I have tried searching and I am clueless about lighting, but I am just wondering what are the pros and cons having either a fluorescent or tungsten light? I know that Tungsten produces hard light and Fluorescent produces soft.

Also, in the realm of Tungsten, what wattages are recommended. I've read somewhere that having (1) 200-250 watt, (2) 500 watts and (1) 1000 Watt is good for starters. Just looking to see what works for others here. By the way, for the most part I will be shooting shorts indoors in small spaces but would not mind having a 1000 watt light just in case we do shoot in larger rooms. Then again, if I do go the fluorescent route, how many lights, fixtures, etc. is recommended?

My main dilemma is just trying to figure which route to go, Tungsten or Fluorescent?

Thanks in advance for nay help.

Jona

Your kind of all over the place here. You are first talking about lighting temperature which actually is color. Tungsten burns at about 3200K where as daylight is far bluer and burns at about 5600K. Fluorescent lights actually have a greenish glow to them and are never ideal unless your shooting a really wide shot with a bunch of fluorescent lights in the shot already.

Secondly, one common misconception is that people think they need a lot of lights. That isn't really the case. Many times it is about how one can control the lighting in a certain shot, not how many lights can I put up. Maybe you only need to add negative to a shot or maybe you just need to cut a light with a flag. The problem is there is so much to lighting that people don't realize. Anyone can add a light, but can anyone make a shot not look flat or provoke a certain emotion with lighting?

 

[Gonzo_Entertainment]

"I've read somewhere that having (1) 200-250 watt, (2) 500 watts and (1) 1000 Watt is good for starters"

You've basically described an Arri I kit, which while it isn't even close to "enough" for every situation, is indeed a good place to start. A good rental house will hook you up a kit in that range for about $75 a day.

 

[Jona816]

ah, its not which is better.. its which is correct for the situation..
Its more a question of "White Balance" than anything else. You need to do some experimenting to figure this out.. I did mine and here is the result..

http://www.vimeo.com/8056743

If you watch that video, notices how the color of "white" changes. In the first shot its "WB" correctly, and the white looks, well White! In the second, my camera WB is set to "outdoors" but Im indoors under tungsten lights so white dosent look so WHITE... As White is the color of all colors, this effects EVERY other color of your scene.. Now this shot was at night, so there was no sunlight coming in the windows.. If it had been day, then the tungsten lights would have clashed with the sunlight and WB would be off.

In this next shot, its day time outside, lots of light coming in the windows, AND Im using tungsten lights.. but I learned a trick on this forum. You can use blue lighting gell to make your yellowish tungsten lights match sunlight and here you see the results. White looks White.. http://www.vimeo.com/9477856 (thers not a lot of white content, but notices the shirt cuff.. )


The more light the better, depending on what your doing 1000W indoors might not be enough for even a small room. Cameras dont see the way we do, so double what you think is "bright" and youll be close

Also, my trick above with the blue gel results in HALF the light getting past the gel so my BRIGHT 500W work light yielded about 250 Watts of light for that shot.. you can see how dark it was, good exposure, but not too bright as you might expect.

Thanks wheat for the tips and the vids! Great examples. I think you made the Tungsten lights work with the day light so already i know there are work-arounds with Tungsten if need be.

One advantage to florescent fixtures is their low wattage consumption, compared to tungsten lamps. They aren't as bright as halogen fixtures, but you can plug a dozen of them into a single circuit without overloading it. You can also buy them in various color temps to match daylight or tungsten and, as you observed, they're pre-diffused.

Disadvantage is they are not directional and therefore more difficult to control.

Thank you! Seems like right now Tungsten is way to go.

Your kind of all over the place here. You are first talking about lighting temperature which actually is color. Tungsten burns at about 3200K where as daylight is far bluer and burns at about 5600K. Fluorescent lights actually have a greenish glow to them and are never ideal unless your shooting a really wide shot with a bunch of fluorescent lights in the shot already.

Secondly, one common misconception is that people think they need a lot of lights. That isn't really the case. Many times it is about how one can control the lighting in a certain shot, not how many lights can I put up. Maybe you only need to add negative to a shot or maybe you just need to cut a light with a flag. The problem is there is so much to lighting that people don't realize. Anyone can add a light, but can anyone make a shot not look flat or provoke a certain emotion with lighting?

Hi Brooksy, not sure what you mean about being all over the place. I didn't mention anything about color in my initial post. Sound advice though about lighting! Thanks!

"I've read somewhere that having (1) 200-250 watt, (2) 500 watts and (1) 1000 Watt is good for starters"

You've basically described an Arri I kit, which while it isn't even close to "enough" for every situation, is indeed a good place to start. A good rental house will hook you up a kit in that range for about $75 a day.

Thanks Gonzo! Also heard from some that kits should be avoided and better to purchase each light separately although I don't understand why it would be different to purchase the same items separately that I will be getting together in a kit? But, I think I get it.

One thing that intend to do is to practice my lighting techniques, read books, forums, etc. and put them to use once I make the purchase. From what i have already read in forums, a lighting kit consists of many other things besides light (softbox, c stands, cookies, sandbags, etc. ) Does anyone know of a comprehensive list of must haves in a light kit that i can use as reference to build up on?

Jona

 

[Brooksy]

"Hi Brooksy, not sure what you mean about being all over the place. I didn't mention anything about color in my initial post. Sound advice though about lighting! Thanks!"


That is the problem here. The fact that you brought up "which is better fluorescent or tungsten lighting" and didn't mention anything about color temperature, speaks volumes about your understanding of lighting. First off you never want to use any kind of fluorescent unless the overall color temp matches the color temp the fluorescent is giving off. You talk about hearing that tungsten gives off hard light and fluorescent gives off soft light. Not really true. I can throw a 4x4 opal or 250 in front of a 5k and it would be as soft if not softer then a fluorescent fixture. Not to mention if I was shooting at night in a house or a basement without windows or even inside with the windows blocked, my tungsten fixture is going to match the color temperature of the practicals much closer then if I used a fluorescent fixture. If it was during the day and there were windows then I would be using HMI's or daylight Kino fixtures. Kino fixtures are ones that looks like fluorescent fixtures but have tubes that are matched to either tungsten (3200K) or daylight (5600K). If you really only had fluorescent fixtures then I would add CTO to them to match my tungsten lights.

Do you see how complicated this gets? Do you understand why I was saying you were all over the place. It takes a lot of knowledge and experience to light something properly. Though you can always do it a wrong way and have the lighting not really do anything and your color is going to be all over the place. But good luck and I hope your piece turns out the way you want it.

 

[2001 Productions]

You can buy florescent bulbs pre-balanced to 3200 and 5600. They aren't cheap, but they're available.

 

[Jona816]

"Hi Brooksy, not sure what you mean about being all over the place. I didn't mention anything about color in my initial post. Sound advice though about lighting! Thanks!"


That is the problem here. The fact that you brought up "which is better fluorescent or tungsten lighting" and didn't mention anything about color temperature, speaks volumes about your understanding of lighting.

Yes, I know this, which why i said i was clueless about lighting in my original post.

First off you never want to use any kind of fluorescent unless the overall color temp matches the color temp the fluorescent is giving off. You talk about hearing that tungsten gives off hard light and fluorescent gives off soft light.

Just going on what I have read in forums and some light manufacturers.

Not really true. I can throw a 4x4 opal or 250 in front of a 5k and it would be as soft if not softer then a fluorescent fixture. Not to mention if I was shooting at night in a house or a basement without windows or even inside with the windows blocked, my tungsten fixture is going to match the color temperature of the practicals much closer then if I used a fluorescent fixture. If it was during the day and there were windows then I would be using HMI's or daylight Kino fixtures. Kino fixtures are ones that looks like fluorescent fixtures but have tubes that are matched to either tungsten (3200K) or daylight (5600K). If you really only had fluorescent fixtures then I would add CTO to them to match my tungsten lights.

Do you see how complicated this gets? Do you understand why I was saying you were all over the place. It takes a lot of knowledge and experience to light something properly. Though you can always do it a wrong way and have the lighting not really do anything and your color is going to be all over the place. But good luck and I hope your piece turns out the way you want it.

Lol, yes I know how complicated it is, hence, my post to try and learn which you are helping to achieve. Thank you! I always knew that lighting was a bitch but I want to learn a little bit of it at the moment just so I get it and don't have to rely too much on someone else. This is why I mentioned that I want to read to some books, maybe watch some videos, etc. Even continue on this post to learn more, even if it's not even scratching the surface. I guess what I was trying to get at also with my first post, was just trying to see what would be most beneficial for shooting mostly indoors in relatively small spaces, but i guess there is waaay much more than just those variables. Thanks Brooksy!

Jona