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Filming outdoors, sound.

Sorry to keep ranting on about sound issues, I should think more about lenses really....

Ok so I should be filming in some woods on Sunday, the short does not have any dialogue, but I will want to capture the best of the ambiance sound around me.

Should the mic be on stereo or mono for filming? I shall be recording some effects also, so should I do that in mono or stereo?

I get more hiss on stereo and the mic isnt a pro one, I shall make the best with what I have.
 
Even if there isn't any dialog you should record as if there were. The characters interact with their environment, so you capture that interaction. You can separately capture additional ambience and wilds.

With the exception of music and ambience almost everything is recorded in mono.
 
While that might be easier for people shooting birthday
parties and holiday/family movies seem more "professional"
there is no need to record anything on set (or location)
in stereo. Which is why you won't find any pro mics that
record stereo.

For full control over stereo and surround sound, one wants
to have total control of each channel. If you want to hear
the footsteps coming from the rear speakers, across the
left and to the center, you want to record each channel in
mono and place them on the correct channels to get
exactly the audio feel you want.

Even when recording ambiance in stereo you don't want to
use a stereo mic - you want to use two mics placed in
exactly the right location and distance.

In my limited audio experience I have found that recording
everything in mono works best. Like doomed, I have found
stereo mic have too much hiss. Then I spend a lot of time
in post production making the tracks sound right. Simply
aiming a stereo mic in the proper direction and hoping that's
enough doesn't do it for me.

The reason there are stereo mics is the same reason there
are fully automatic cameras available. Consumers want as
"prifessional" a final product as possible without doing any
work at all.
 
Actually, there are some very nice sounding, very clean stereo mics - if you want to spend a couple of thousand dollars. As with most gear you have to pay to get quality. Most of the time stereo recording is done with "matched" pairs of microphones, which usually means that they have sequential serial numbers.

When I use a stereo ambience it is merely a "canvas" on which to "paint" other sounds - lots of other sounds. I currently use the Audio Technica AT-822 stereo mic for ambience recording. Not bad for a budget mic, it has a bit of self noise, but it's very bright microphone so it retains its presence when you roll off the highs to reduce the hiss. It's nice for crickets, babbling brooks, quiet streets, etc.

A common method of stereo recording used in film is referred to as "mid-side" recording, which is not for the inexperienced. It requires a multi-track recording system, some really nice mics, must be encoded and decoded, and very carefully controlled during audio post. This method results in a very wide stereo field, and allows for a great deal of control so you can create a "hole" in the center for the dialog.
 
They are mostly used for sporting event broadcast work. They are also used for recording sound effects. BTW, most are Mid-Side mics.

I have seen this mic on ebay, not sure if its any good though, its a sony c-74
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220464784762&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

I've never used one, but I wouldn't expect much from a mic that sells for $75 brand new. From what I've read it's very heavy compared to most other shotguns, has a high S/N (Signal to Noise) ratio, and uses expensive lithium batteries.
 
With so much back & forth, I don't know if I mentioned that you should consider renting your audio gear.

For example, you can rent a Sound Devices 302 mixer ($1,300), Two Lectrosonic Wireless Mic Combo Kits ($2,300 each), Two Tram TR50 Lavalieres ($325 each) and a K-Tek Boom Pole plus all the accessories for $250 per day. I've been hearing from some production sound guys I know who, because of the current economy, will do an entire weekend with a similar (probably larger) kit for $300. Something to think about; you get great gear and someone who knows how to use it for a full weekend for the cost of a budget shotgun. It leaves you free to worry about the shot and the talent; just make sure that you really work with him/her.


If you absolutely must buy a mic...

Recommended budget shotguns:

Rode NTG-2 - $270

Audio-Technica AT897 - $270

Sennheiser ME66/K6 - $460

Sennheiser ME67/K6P - $500


Recommended budget cardioid condensers:

Rode NT5 - $220

Audio-Technica AT4041 - $300

Audio-Technica AT4053a - $400

Rode NT6 - $430
 
A lot to think about here,

Renting does sound a lot less hassle, I think I should think about that when I have some sort of a buget, at this moment in time I really don't have much money at all.

My situation is just me producing film, I work, but I don't get paid much, it took me a while just to save £200 ($330) for my camera lol.

I have seen that Rode NTG-2 on ebay though which I wouldnt mind.

Im entering a local film fest soon, which hass an event, this should open up some options for me I hope.
 
Sorry to keep ranting on about sound issues, I should think more about lenses really.....
Sound is half of the experience.

At least you are learning about sound from day one; most beginners ignore it completely until they realize that their crappy sound is killing their projects. They then have to re-learn how to shoot while integrating sound.

Renting does sound a lot less hassle, I think I should think about that when I have some sort of a buget, at this moment in time I really don't have much money at all.
I have seen that Rode NTG-2 on ebay though which I wouldnt mind..
You could rent an ME66 with a boom-pole, blimp, dead cat and cable for about $45US for a weekend.
 
Sound is half of the experience.


You could rent an ME66 with a boom-pole, blimp, dead cat and cable for about $45US for a weekend.

Not bad! maybe I should look into it,

After shooting today with what I had, the first sound I am thinking about is a car going from right to left, the idea I had was to keep the audio of that scene low on one channel and then copy the car sound and place that on another channel wich pans right to left, not sure if this is a great way to do it but it seems to sound good.
 
A great deal depends upon the quality of production sound. The cleaner and more discreet the dialog the more that can be done in audio post.

Given clean dialog - and a budget and reasonable time frame - I will put in every single sound you "see" in a project. Every car pass, door open/close, footstep, telephone, computer, light switch, kiss, bed squeak, dog bark, gun shot and article of clothing will be individually created or pulled from a library by yours truly. Given clean dialog I can compose an ambience that will hopefully greatly enhance the scene.

If I have the opportunity to work with the composer the two of us can avoid stepping on each others work. As an example, if the footsteps are important to the scene I can ask the composer to avoid certain percussion instruments so that they do not conflict with the footsteps. Maybe a tense, suspenseful scene takes place in a factory; if we are collaborating I can start with droning machinery which could crossfade into suspenseful cellos and strings. This is why it is so important for both elements of the sound team, supervising sound editor and composer, to do a walk-through/talk-through together with the director. All of the audio elements will be working together when it comes time to mix so the sound design and the score mesh without a great deal of compromise.

The opposite is also true - poorly recorded production sound inhibits the ability to be subtle with the sound design and the score; you will be compromising every time you turn around. There's so much noise that it becomes a major distraction if you bring its volume down between lines of dialog. Then you have to make footsteps so loud to be heard above tho noise it becomes comic or cartoony. The subtleties of the score are lost as you now have to "carve out a hole" with EQ for the dialog to be heard clearly. Most of the time, everything else is so clean and clear that it only highlights how poorly the production sound was recorded.
 
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