Film Critics, Who are they?

p38

p38

In the forums when someone makes a comment about another person's movie... constructive comment, mind you, many times the reply is hostile.

Here's the deal:
If you make a comment and the creator don't like it (like...most of them) then, in return they ask; If you can do it better let me see YOUR movies!
Is that fair?
On the surface, yeah, let me see what ya got dude, if you're so damn smart!

On the other hand who are the REAL critics?
The public.
Not you, as a 'film maker or even the film critics'.
Most of the public never looked into a viewfinder but they can tell a bad movie from a good one.
So who are the 'real' critics here?
Yup, the public who has no idea what the hell is DOF and other tech stuff you and I know, they just know when a movie is good or bad. So, why are these so called 'film makers' so sensitive about a feedback with such reply from other shooters?
Is it pride? Am sure that has something to with it.

Judging movies is like driving a car... you know how to drive it, but no clue how to make one is about the simple way to explain this?
Well, that's my question and how I see it. Welcome your comments on this subject.
 
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I really can't agree with your sentiment.

Non-filmmakers know if they like a movie, or don't like it, and that is obviously a very important thing for us to take into account, but it doesn't mean that peer-reviews are meaningless. Peer-reviews can help you hone your craft because your peers are able to point out specific flaws and give good ideas that a general audience would never recognize or know how to comment on.

The thing that is tricky about the internet is that, like you point out, you have no clue who you're getting a critique from, what their credentials are, or even whether or not they were drunk when they posted their comments. So, that being the case, I think it's up to the person asking for critiques to do their best to sort through the various comments for those that have a lot of value and can help you improve your product, vs. those that are just kinda silly.

I've received both kinds of critiques. On numerous occasions, I've specifically asked for honest critiques on rough-drafts of different projects. On every single occasion, the feedback I received on this forum dramatically helped me make necessary revisions. I'll be honest -- some of the feedback gets brushed off my shoulder, but much of it makes me go, "Wow, I never thought of that!"

I used to offer lots of critiques to films posted in our screening rooms. I still do sometimes, but much less often than I used to. Anyway, in my experience, most people really appreciate the feedback. It was pretty rare for anyone's response to be hostile. On rare occasion, somebody's reaction might be along the lines of "oh yeah, then why don't you show me your work?" When that has happened, I've not indulged them, partly because they're kind of being troll-ish, but mostly because you can find my work if you look for it, and I don't think filmmaking should be a competition, anyway.

Long story short, I think there's a great deal of worth in getting critiques from people on this forum. The trick is in learning to have a thick-skin and to honestly listen to the critiques, not interpreting them as any sort of attack. :)
 
Critics are people that help ordinary citizens from making the mistake of forking out $$$ to see crap.

--

There ARE some bad critics (those who get paid to write reviews) including some that may deliberately tank your film, but there are FAR more bad filmmakers (those who are asking for people to pay to watch their films) than there will ever be bad critics.

--
 
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At it's simplest: opinions are like @ssholes...

These are often people that only know to point and grunt and beat with sticks and burn "witches" at stakes for things their primitive little monkey brains can't quite comprehend.

At a level several steps above that is someone who knows the difference between a critique and a criticism.

While a criticism may be limited to the offensive person's expansive scope of "That sux" or "You suck" or the penultimate derivation of "That sux because you suck", a critique suggests that there is some form of informed opinion of A) where the strengths and weaknesses of any particular work lie, B) in what historical context the piece can be classified, and C) how any particular aspect may be strengthened/optimized/enhanced.

A real critic offers much more than just criticism, IMHO.


Now, the flip side to this is "To whom the criticism or critique is being offered".
An ignorant recipient may easily mistake the latter for the former.


Be careful to who you offer or ask much of anything.
Accepting criticisms from fools is about as useless as providing critiques to them, as well.
 
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OK, maybe I didn't make myself clear with the 'public' statement.

Lets face it, are you making movies so only your peers see it?
I implied that movies are made for 'public' views.
If the public likes shitty movies, then it's a 'good movie' because it makes money. Isn't Holywood is all about?

So, the PUBLIC is the last word if your movie is good or bad.
Am agreeing with your posts, as peer views could be helpful.
 
I can't make mortgage and increase my BMI with critical acclaim, so... f#ck 'em. I really don't care what so called 'critics' opine.
What I do care about is entertaining people by providing an interesting premise followed by an appreciated execution.
However, if all I could muster is to separate fools from their money while p!ssing them off royally with a FUBAR story I'll cry all the way to the bank.
Too bad. So sad. Sux2BU.
And if I can't even make money off of 'em, then... d@mn! ham! I do indeed suck. ;)


The paying audience is infinitely more important to me than critics paid to provide subjective witty observation to fill X-inches of column space.
 
@Rayw

Yup. If you can't make money on a film then u-sux as you said :)
hahah

@Directorik
nope, you're not the public as soon as you know how how to turn on the camcorder:)
 
p38 said:
So, the PUBLIC is the last word if your movie is good or bad.
Click to expand...

Sure, that's fine. I can agree to that. Of course, some films are made with the hopes of only satisfying a specific portion of the "public", but at the end of the day, it's the consumer who decides on the quality of a film.

directorik does make a good point, though. We are part of the "public", in the sense that we literally are. We interact with non-filmmakers on a daily basis, and most of us probably discuss movies with them on a regular basis. I don't know about you guys, but many of my non-filmmaker friends often seek me out for my thoughts on movies, either just for discussion's sake, or for advice on what to watch. Word-of-mouth is a powerful thing, and filmmakers provide a lot of it. So, there's that. Plus, I enjoy movies, simply on the level of being entertained. Shouldn't my entertainment (or lack thereof) be counted for something? After all, I spend much more money at the box office than the average member of the "public".
 
p38 said:
In the forums when someone makes a comment about another person's movie... constructive comment, mind you, many times the reply is hostile.

Here's the deal:
If you make a comment and the creator don't like it (like...most of them) then, in return they ask; If you can do it better let me see YOUR movies!
Is that fair?
On the surface, yeah, let me see what ya got dude, if you're so damn smart!

On the other hand who are the REAL critics?
The public.
Not you, as a 'film maker or even the film critics'.
Most of the public never looked into a viewfinder but they can tell a bad movie from a good one.
So who are the 'real' critics here?
Yup, the public who has no idea what the hell is DOF and other tech stuff you and I know, they just know when a movie is good or bad. So, why are these so called 'film makers' so sensitive about a feedback with such reply from other shooters?
Is it pride? Am sure that has something to with it.

Judging movies is like driving a car... you know how to drive it, but no clue how to make one is about the simple way to explain this?
Well, that's my question and how I see it. Welcome your comments on this subject.
Click to expand...

Here's the thing, and for some reason people (critics) believe this to be true, and it's not. OPINION is NOT FACT.

Example: There are people who do not like Meryl Streep or Jack Nicholson and they'll tell you they suck. That's an opinion that's completely untrue. You might not like them. But, their talents are immeasurable. They are excellent actors. So, to say "They suck because I said so" renders that speaker's opinion worthless. It's like listening to some moron go on about Obama not being born in America. It's impossible to take them seriously.

Film makers take their work to heart, because they work hard to create a project. It's not that much to ask a reviewer/critic to review it based in FACT and not opinion.

If you're going to be a reviewer (who isn't) you should abide by rules of common sense. If you're going to discuss the art of film making, you should know a little about the art-form. Don't render an opinion on something you know nothing about. If you knew nothing about engines, would you walk up to a mechanic and offer suggestions? Of course not.

I've had 50/50 on reviews. I've commented on maybe four or five. Every time there's someone that says "It's the reviewers opinion, live with it". Obviously they didn't read the review or my response. I've never argued opinions, I've argued FACTS. Which apparently on the internet, facts don't matter. Oh, and context is just a distant memory on the internet.

As far as the public knowing good from bad, couldn't be more untrue. The individual decides what they like or don't like. If you need the public to make up your mind on what's good or bad, then you don't have the right to ever offer an opinion. Because you don't have one.

That's one of my favorite things when I watch The O'Reilly Factor. He does this on a consistent basis"

Bill: "This *** isn't good for young people. Because..."
Guest: "Bill have you seen it?"
Bill: "No. But, I've been told..."

Don't render an opinion unless you have a clue as to what you're talking about. When you do, make sure it's based in fact. That isn't too much to ask.
 
p38 said:
... you're not the public as soon as you know how how to turn on the camcorder:)
Click to expand...

The essence of becoming a true professional involved in any artistic/creative endeavor is the ability to be objective about their own work. As a musician or writer or painter or filmmaker you have to learn to experience your own work as an audience member. This also implies the ability to look at the work of others in that same objective way. This is very difficult to cultivate, but needed if you are to grow as an artist.
 
I've reviewed a few films on this forum, though I don't like to do it for the very reason you suggest: if I'm so damn smart, where's my multi-picture studio deal? I do, however, always try to be constructive. I know only too well how difficult it is to get something made, and how disheartening it is to have months/years of work dismissed out-of-hand.

All's fair with studio films, though. I think the majority of them are crap, but they make gobs of money so who cares what I think? Nobody. :cool:
 
ussinners said:
That's one of my favorite things when I watch The O'Reilly Factor. He does this on a consistent basis"

Bill: "This *** isn't good for young people. Because..."
Guest: "Bill have you seen it?"
Bill: "No. But, I've been told..."
Click to expand...

Good advice, but maybe you need to change the channel!
 
GuerrillaAngel said:
Good advice, but maybe you need to change the channel!
Click to expand...

I used to love flipping back and forth from O'Reilly and O'Donnell. Then MSNBC had to go and put ED in the 8pm slot. It's not the same. O'Reilly is fun when he's not trying to be serious. Plus, I gotta admit, the conservative women are hotter then the liberal chicks.
 
2001 Productions said:
I've reviewed a few films on this forum, though I don't like to do it for the very reason you suggest: if I'm so damn smart, where's my multi-picture studio deal? I do, however, always try to be constructive. I know only too well how difficult it is to get something made, and how disheartening it is to have months/years of work dismissed out-of-hand.

All's fair with studio films, though. I think the majority of them are crap, but they make gobs of money so who cares what I think? Nobody. :cool:
Click to expand...

So, you know what am saying :)
hahah
It happens all the time.

Sometimes it's better to shut up and not give any opinion/advice about CREATIVE work.
I look at it this way, if I like it I say so, If I don't like it, nothing said. No hurt egos and let the person find out on his own why people like or don't like his/her creations.

You don't have to go to film school to create a good movie. Observe and learn. If you live in LA, hang out on field shoots, they're all around and observe :) You'd be amazed how much you can pick up watching from a street corner.
Am sure I'll get 'corrected' with my observation suggestion... BTW that also applies watching many movies :)
hahah
 
ussinners said:
the conservative women are hotter then the liberal chicks.
Click to expand...

I've noticed that, too (and I'm as left wing as they come). I don't know that they're necessarily hotter, but maybe they are more motivated to try and look the way men want them to (a conservative value, right?) than the liberal women, who could give a crap what we think. :P

Just having fun here, ladies -- no offense! (I'm gonna get killed.) :D
 
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Ya'll are crazy, hippie-chicks are hot. So are sci-fi/comic-book nerds (and they're all liberal).

I believe this is the closest we can come to having a political discussion, without violating the rules of IT. Except now, we've gone WAY off-topic. Dammit!

So, back on-topic, looking back at critiques I've given, and looking forward to critiques I might give, I'm only going to offer honest critiques if I'm positive that that is what the person is looking for.
 
I believe we need to establish a critique administration board to begin qualifying those who believe...

Aw, f#ckit.
Say whatever you guys want. I don't care. :coffee:
 
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