archived-videos Fight Scene from 2010 Feature Length Film

[Graeme Noble]

This is a fight scene from a feature film I shot back in 2010. The picture quality is poor but this was a stepping stone for us to be where we're at now. The fight does showcase some of the energy we've incorporated into our fights today. Any comments will be greatly appreciated.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bcuadt3KxDk

 

[GeorgiaHilton]

hi, i wasn't even going to comment any more until a couple of you tried to defend me a bit, so, look, thanks for the support, but honesty... it's just not worth wasting your time... I just tossed the clip up because I had i lying around and it's got a bit better audio than the original... that simple.

it was a student film I was asked by the VA to act as executive producer and mentor for the new director ( a vet) at NYFA... he started to try to pull the scene together but asked me to finish directing on set to sort out the bit of a problem scene for him... so we we went with the plan and made the fight what it is... I can't and won't ask anyone to change an opinion, but I kinda like to rough edge to the edits as they work for the overall story's emotional moment. But what do I know...

The funny thing is the film is a 20 min short that's won a bunch of awards internationally for production quality , directing and acting... and many of the judges commented on the believability and quality of the fight. ... go figure.

I just tried to offer the OP something that had, IMHO, a bit more real sound design and a bit of good acting providing a more emotional edge to a fight. I'm sorry i even bothered.

again, thanks for the support, but this guy is just too full of himself and he's always gonna try for the last word.
the guy jumped to a incorrect conclusion and isn't about to back down from it. Let it go.

cheers
geo

 

[MarkKnightRises]

Georgia's scene is ready for broadcast/distribution whereas Graeme's would virtually need to be dumped in it's entirety and the audio post production started again from scratch. How on earth is Georgia's scene going to require more hours of re-editing than the OP's???

G

Her scene might be ready for broadcast but that would only mean that it's technically satisfactory. It doesn't mean that it's a fight worth watching. You questioning me on this point makes me think you just watch movies while closing your eyes. Look, chum, I get that your side of the industry is unfairly overlooked. I get that you have to argue with people all the time to get respect. But that doesn't mean that good audio is the sole factor in a movie. And in this case, Georgia's fight scene, simply doesn't have the fundamental basis for a good fight that the OP's has. So what the OP lacks in audio, he makes up for in the fight as a whole.

The OP's scene needs its sound redone, yes, but it's the type of scene where the sound can be redone quite easily. You seem to be unaware of how to do this, which is surprising to me, considering how much you lord your expertise over this thread.

Bottom line, give both scenes a couple hours of work to improve them and the OP's scene would entertain a slightly wider audience. As is, they are roughly equal in entertainment value.

Ironic you should describe Georgia as arrogant while at the same time putting your opinion (as someone with no professional audio experience) against my professional opinion,

G

The fact that you may have more professional audio experience than I do doesn't make your opinion about a fight scene more valid. Did you actually read what I wrote? Or do you just angrily start typing a response the moment someone disagrees with you? I'm expressing my opinion about the two videos as a whole. That's how movies are watched by the world at large, mate. Audiences drink in the whole package.

Graeme is obviously a newbie/amateur when it comes to sound. No disrespect intended to Graeme, we all have to start somewhere.

Georgia on the other hand is a member of the MPSE (Motion Picture Sound Editors) guild and of the CAS (cinema Audio Society), these aren't organisations you pay to join, you must be invited and nominated.


G

Ah, the true sign that someone is wrong and doesn't want to admit it: you, my friend, are throwing credentials around. "Oh, no, no, mate, my movie is better than your movie because I'm a member of this particular guild, see." Get off it, love. If someone's scene is lame, we could care less whether or not they have a list of spiffy credentials. The framed certificate of membership on Georgia's wall doesn't make her video any better at all. (Although, hey, for your sake, maybe she should add an insert shot of it right in her midst of her terrific scene. That might help you, right?)

What would the audio for that insert shot be? A saxophone note? Some distant thunder? The o-face of a gerbil?









_____

 

[VivaChiba]

This is a fight scene from a feature film I shot back in 2010. The picture quality is poor but this was a stepping stone for us to be where we're at now. The fight does showcase some of the energy we've incorporated into our fights today. Any comments will be greatly appreciated.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bcuadt3KxDk

Well done. For what it's worth, I enjoyed it.

Yes, you could have done with a larger toilet (some shots are too close, which gave an unnecessary amateur feel to an otherwise competent fight scene) and some make-up/effects added during the fight (even if your bird just added a bit of rouge after a bloke took a hit), but all-in-all, it was pretty well choreographed and enjoyable in a modern fight scene way.

The sound has already been mentioned but limitations are evident on a site calling itself indietalk.

A few things about the fight:

- 12 seconds in, the Leather Jacket (LJ from now on) appears dazed. In such a small space, he'd never recover from Beard's follow-up attack and the fight would be over (which on first viewing, I expected it was)

- 15 seconds in: Beard, on being shoved back attempts a front thrust kick... this is the first place I found the camera to be too close (the leg should be shown, not out of frame)

- LJ follows up the missed kick with slaps to the exposed kidneys, when we've already been led to assume from the get-go that these two are trained fighters

- A neat change of angles in the stall, but LJ doesn't duck or weave, with Beard instead deliberately punching wide

- 40 seconds in: LJ goes down... surely now this fight's over? But no, there's a cut (WTF?!) and LJ's back up, blocking, and with only one arm

- 1:23: I've no idea what LJ delivered the knock out blow with (the end of the fight is a key moment; how your hero wins is crucial)


I could have listed more things but didn't want to come across as nit-picking, when I did actually quite like it.

 

[VivaChiba]

the only comments I have is that the sound feels a bit off and a little "big". The fighters lack emotion.... It's like watching two rock'em sock'em robots kick the hell out of each other... It's fun to watch, but I'm not feeling the fight emotionally.


If it's any help , i've attached a fight scene I directed a couple years ago. Lars Lundegard was the stunt coordinator for the film.

https://vimeo.com/hmmllc/review/47518691/c3f9da66eb try this one...
cheers
geo

Really not the same thing. The O.P. was for genre fans and this was a wife-beating drama; it was kind of like comparing sand to glass - they both have the same matter, but one's see-through and holds water whilst the other slips through the fingers and is washed up on the shore.

Apologies, that came across as insulting to whoever's clip was the sand. There was no insult intended.

I felt that the beginning of this was too up close for the genre - it would have been more powerful had the camera been able to take more in. The actors are obviously talented though and the sound - as mentioned - was of a higher quality.

Next time though, people, can we please focus on the work posted for review and not argue? I'm new here, but petty bickering has turned me off of many a site in the past and I'd hate this one to follow suit.

 

[Graeme Noble]

Thank you to all who have commented on my fight scene. Arguments aside, I appreciate the feedback that I receive. The sound design is pretty bad in my fight but I do believe I've improved a bit since then, and I do find it a little insulting when I read that Georgia is in another league from me. In the past 2 years, I believe the quality of my work has improved greatly and I have achieved some great success at film festivals this year (and won 3 separate awards). I did stress in my original post that this was filmed 2 years ago.

Here is the trailer to a no-budget feature length film I shot this year. I believe there have been improvements but I can see that there are still improvements to be made (from a technical point of view in particular). If I could receive feedback in terms of my progression in the past 2 years then that would be fantastic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIkcNpdFFsY

 

[AudioPostExpert]

The sound design is pretty bad in my fight but I do believe I've improved a bit since then, and I do find it a little insulting when I read that Georgia is in another league from me.

You should not feel insulted, that was not my intent! You are a filmmaker Graeme, presumably fulfilling quite a number of different filmmaking roles. Georgia on the other hand is an audio post specialist with a wealth of knowledge, professional experience and high class facilities/equipment at her disposal, respected and honoured by the world's most prestigious audio post organisations and practitioners. This puts Georgia in a different league to many who would call themselves audio post professionals, let alone to those who don't even specialise in audio post. So it's not an insult that Georgia is in different league to you, in fact it shouldn't even be mildly surprising! IMHO, rather than feeling insulted, you should be trying to take advantage of this rare opportunity to interact and learn from someone of Georgia's international professional reputation and stature.

In the spirit of providing useful feedback, I have to say that the sound on your most recent clip is if anything slightly worse than on your first clip. You still have the problem of the positioning (EQ'ing, worldizing, balancing) of your sound FX but you also now have overload distortion on the first few lines of dialogue, very poor lip sync (particularly from about 1:05 onwards), some extraneous clicks/mouth sounds in the dialogue (at about 0:21) and dialogue levels (at about 0:39) which don't balance/match. The use/balance of the music and sound design elements is much improved in your most recent clip though.

I'll leave comments about the visuals to those with more knowledge/experience, except to say that in both clips I was pulled out of the impact and realism of the scenes by the fact that apparently trained bare knuckle fighters can beat the hell out of each other without drawing blood or even leaving a mark.

The reason that Georgia and I have specifically mentioned the sound design is because the audio aspect of your filmmaking is the most obvious weak link. In other words, your ability to tell a story and create good, engaging visuals instead of being aided by the sound is being undermined by it.

I Hope this is useful info?

G

 

[8salacious9]

Thank you to all who have commented on my fight scene. Arguments aside, I appreciate the feedback that I receive. The sound design is pretty bad in my fight but I do believe I've improved a bit since then, and I do find it a little insulting when I read that Georgia is in another league from me. In the past 2 years, I believe the quality of my work has improved greatly and I have achieved some great success at film festivals this year (and won 3 separate awards). I did stress in my original post that this was filmed 2 years ago.

Here is the trailer to a no-budget feature length film I shot this year. I believe there have been improvements but I can see that there are still improvements to be made (from a technical point of view in particular). If I could receive feedback in terms of my progression in the past 2 years then that would be fantastic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIkcNpdFFsY

ok il first of say that i didnt see your first clip, after watching this, i dont think i have to, iv always said to people im a harsh critic, and thats because im extremely truthful and would even class my own work as crap if it was, so heres what i liked and didnt like:

Liked: the story has some potential, and the concept is really good.

thats all i liked unfortunatly im a huge fan of fighting films so this is one of my genres..

Disliked:

The Acting:it was just awful the crappy actors even the voices werent emotional especially for a topic like herion and fighting!!, by this, i want you to look at their faces when acting, is it believable? no, is it emotional, no, il give credit to the main guy he had some kind of emotion in there, the rest looked like they were taking the piss or something.

Sound: i only had a problem with the hitting noises, it sounded like someone from streetfighter was hitting an airbag and cardboard, it was awful get a different sound, it doesnt go, it looks/sounds weird, and is atrocious.

even on no budget i wouldnt accept the acting from no experienced actors, i would hype them up before filming, get the look of what i wanted from them then start filming to get them in their prime mood.

dont think im attacking just how i felt.

thanks
your harsh critic

 

[Graeme Noble]

I Hope this is useful info?

It is useful information. I only know the bare minimum for sound, and like you noted in your post, I basically do it all behind the camera and I am far from being an expert on anything in filmmaking - but I do believe I have talents in some aspects. Thanks for the comment, and for watching.

dont think im attacking just how i felt.

I don't feel you are attacking me. I want people to give their opinions and its important to learn what a wide range of people think - no point on living in the naive bubble. Thank you for your comment.

 

[VivaChiba]

Visually, Graeme, it's class - what camera/s did you use? I was particularly impressed by the quality of the night scenes... you said this was made on NO budget, did you not? Wow, no "graininess" whatsoever!

Sound, again, is a problem - you really have to start paying somebody who's worth their salt.

The fights look - from what I could see - competent, but it's the concept that turned me off: another plot based around a tournament... can't men just beat the crap out of each other over a girl/job/stolen loot/principle/last cup of coffee?
So many things to make a film about and the fighting market's flooded with tournaments.

That's not meant to be discouraging, but it is a peev of mine. At least your lead is a skag-head.

I think it's great though that you're doing what you're doing. You seriously want to start researching producers; if you can't find a like-minded one, then become one. Britain NEEDS more action films.

EDIT: Oh, and rehearsals pay dividends: performer confidence, improved performances, a better understanding of the role... I get it that people were doing you a favour by "acting" for free, but as pointed out, a couple in your ad' were rather off-putting.

 

[NickClapper]

@Graeme:

I'm once again impressed by the skill of your choreography. 90% of the time it looks like a proper, intense martial arts fight, which, for an indie film, is a big achievement. As with the earlier clip, you'll benefit enormously from doing some grittier sound design. I recommend you give homemade foley a try: sometimes it'll be a single as recording the sound of you punching your shoulder, or a large piece of beef.

For me, the acting in Street Fight is problematic. The Scottish accent is an amazing one for improvisation and I think you'd've benefitted from allowing your actors to go off-script a little. In places it feels very forced and the static camera shots don't help them out. When you're dealing with intense emotion, the more natural you allow them to feel (and the less 'artificial' the shot composition) the easier it will be for them to convey those themes.

Best of luck!

 

[Graeme Noble]

Thank you both for you helpful comments.