Fan-films... why?
- Thread starter Zensteve
- Start date
A bothersome question.
Yes, the "fun" level of the project plays a part in it. I think the fact that a well made fan film can catch the attention of a large audience (think the Grayson trailer) can also play a role.
I honestly do not believe I will ever try my hand at a fan film (unless in parody or satirization) because of what was mentioned in that same thread you stole the above quote from - fan films only stand out when established characters are (re)made original. And in my book, that's a toughie.
Poke
Yes, the "fun" level of the project plays a part in it. I think the fact that a well made fan film can catch the attention of a large audience (think the Grayson trailer) can also play a role.
I honestly do not believe I will ever try my hand at a fan film (unless in parody or satirization) because of what was mentioned in that same thread you stole the above quote from - fan films only stand out when established characters are (re)made original. And in my book, that's a toughie.
Poke
What a great, intelligent, well-thought out and handsome question!
Hope some of the indietalkers will jump on this one and explain the effort that goes into fan films for me...uh, this guy...or gal...whoever the...author...of this...umm...original.......I gotta go!
Hope some of the indietalkers will jump on this one and explain the effort that goes into fan films for me...uh, this guy...or gal...whoever the...author...of this...umm...original.......I gotta go!
I'm glad someone asked it straight out. Fan films boggle my mind, and soetimes they seem to have taken so much time, money, and effort. Why not take all that creative energy and make something original? Good question. I love you.
Fan films are made for many reasons, but most of all:
1. from people who likes the original movies and wanting to pay tribute
2. to create a story of their own POV based on the copyrighted characters
3. to use it as a mean to challenge themselves furthermore ther expertise
4. to make it for the fun of it
5. if it made good, it's made for recognition
As many know, fan films can not make $ unless you are doing it as a parody (which is very hard to make sure your fan film is under parody line), so people make it because they thought of a story and they think it would work and go out and put it together, while it is for their enjoyment, at times, they hope the major Hollywood people would consider their story or their talent... (unfortunately, fan films, in corporate world, is illegal because you already broken the copyright law by making something that doesn't belong to you, which hence, it would backfire, for example, DC Comics/Warner Brothers would look at you like you have 'stolen' their property, and they would never consider you or your talent for their projects, because if they hire you and words get out, it's like supporting a fan film director, hence more fan films will be made and more would want to be 'recognized').
Some did it to get their name out within the fan film base, they've realized there is a huge demographic of people who loves fan films and this would be an opportunity to get themselves a name or a position (probably more jobs)
Others did it for fun, because they love those characters (Star Wars, etc) that they created another environment/story that they would like to see it happening, so they did it, to satisfy their own crave and to those who like it. (again there's a big huge base of fans out there)
Yes, it is very time consuming and expensive, but like an artist who would create a big nice project without worrying the result whether it would bring income, that's what a fan film is. An artist's expression of love and creativity based on the universe they grew up with.
After all, it's easier to have others easily identify with your fan film than creating a new universe where people would 'assume' it is from others movies (like my short film The Chase, a lot of people said it's a copy of Matrix, which is not, but more of an Anime based).
Either it's short of feature length fan films, they are made mainly for the love of it, and they always find people who would join their project because they all have the same interest and wanted to bring the story alive. So, mainly we can say, they are geeks in steroids
Johnny
1. from people who likes the original movies and wanting to pay tribute
2. to create a story of their own POV based on the copyrighted characters
3. to use it as a mean to challenge themselves furthermore ther expertise
4. to make it for the fun of it
5. if it made good, it's made for recognition
As many know, fan films can not make $ unless you are doing it as a parody (which is very hard to make sure your fan film is under parody line), so people make it because they thought of a story and they think it would work and go out and put it together, while it is for their enjoyment, at times, they hope the major Hollywood people would consider their story or their talent... (unfortunately, fan films, in corporate world, is illegal because you already broken the copyright law by making something that doesn't belong to you, which hence, it would backfire, for example, DC Comics/Warner Brothers would look at you like you have 'stolen' their property, and they would never consider you or your talent for their projects, because if they hire you and words get out, it's like supporting a fan film director, hence more fan films will be made and more would want to be 'recognized').
Some did it to get their name out within the fan film base, they've realized there is a huge demographic of people who loves fan films and this would be an opportunity to get themselves a name or a position (probably more jobs)
Others did it for fun, because they love those characters (Star Wars, etc) that they created another environment/story that they would like to see it happening, so they did it, to satisfy their own crave and to those who like it. (again there's a big huge base of fans out there)
Yes, it is very time consuming and expensive, but like an artist who would create a big nice project without worrying the result whether it would bring income, that's what a fan film is. An artist's expression of love and creativity based on the universe they grew up with.
After all, it's easier to have others easily identify with your fan film than creating a new universe where people would 'assume' it is from others movies (like my short film The Chase, a lot of people said it's a copy of Matrix, which is not, but more of an Anime based).
Either it's short of feature length fan films, they are made mainly for the love of it, and they always find people who would join their project because they all have the same interest and wanted to bring the story alive. So, mainly we can say, they are geeks in steroids
Johnny
For example, look at "Troops", the more famous of fan-films. It was so good, everyone started making fan-films.
I'd love to do one myself, but I have this fear of lawyers...
I'd love to do one myself, but I have this fear of lawyers...
One of the suggestions I've read many places is to remake things that have been done to learn this tradecraft. This is a great way to learn about camera angles and lighting as the character work is done, the settings are established and the look and feel is determined. The shooting of fan fare can really fast track your learning of this highly technical art form.
or:
When I was in elementary school, we would all take parts from whatever was the most popular show/movie at the time and play pretend we were them...now I have bigger toys. I haven't changed that much. Why did you get into movie making...root cause was not to tell stories...it's usually "I saw (movie X) and loved it".
or:
When I was in elementary school, we would all take parts from whatever was the most popular show/movie at the time and play pretend we were them...now I have bigger toys. I haven't changed that much. Why did you get into movie making...root cause was not to tell stories...it's usually "I saw (movie X) and loved it".
I take exception to the geek on steroids comment, Johnny. I suppose I might be a film geek, and a sci-fi geek, and a gaming geek, but steroids? 
Apparently, Mr. Wu doesn't want to toot his own horn too much, so allow me to do it for him. A Joker's Card took over a year from concept to completion, with every production angle covered as though we were making a for profit feature film. It is safe to say that all of us who came on board the project did so because we just love making movies, the genre came second.
Honing the craft is nearly always my reason for a project- finding directors whose work I admire and from whom I can learn is paramount. Often, I feel as though I got way more out of the experience than they did... In the case of AJC, I got MAJOR resume points and many doors opened for me that had been closed.
AJC has garnered great reviews and awards (including the Telly) and because it is a parody, is going places I don't think any of us imagined. We were just having some fun.
Of course, that goes back to the geek thing... Who's idea of fun is spending multiple weekends in rain and freezing temperatures (even indoors!), hanging off roof-tops (second unit director), building wire-work rigs from scratch, and spending hours on special effects make up and CGI? Guess that makes me a geek.
Fan film or 'normal' film... you do them because you love them. 'If you make it, they will come'... Heck even my first short subject won a festival- although it didn't make the cut in several others- but we loved it and perservered.
So, to end this rambling essay, Fan Films- we make them cause we love movies!
I suppose I might be a film geek, and a sci-fi geek, and a gaming geek, but steroids? Apparently, Mr. Wu doesn't want to toot his own horn too much, so allow me to do it for him. A Joker's Card took over a year from concept to completion, with every production angle covered as though we were making a for profit feature film. It is safe to say that all of us who came on board the project did so because we just love making movies, the genre came second.
Honing the craft is nearly always my reason for a project- finding directors whose work I admire and from whom I can learn is paramount. Often, I feel as though I got way more out of the experience than they did... In the case of AJC, I got MAJOR resume points and many doors opened for me that had been closed.
AJC has garnered great reviews and awards (including the Telly) and because it is a parody, is going places I don't think any of us imagined. We were just having some fun.
Of course, that goes back to the geek thing... Who's idea of fun is spending multiple weekends in rain and freezing temperatures (even indoors!), hanging off roof-tops (second unit director), building wire-work rigs from scratch, and spending hours on special effects make up and CGI? Guess that makes me a geek.
Fan film or 'normal' film... you do them because you love them. 'If you make it, they will come'... Heck even my first short subject won a festival- although it didn't make the cut in several others- but we loved it and perservered.
So, to end this rambling essay, Fan Films- we make them cause we love movies!
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OK, I appreciate all the answers thus far, and I understand the idea of "doing it just to do it," but...
If you have to put in all this effort, co-ordinate the same amount of people on set, put out the same amount of money, "re-create" the characters to a degree, etc. - and you're guaranteed you can't do anything with the film except in certain limited areas of exposure (which are probably more numerous than I'm aware of) - why do a fan film? Why not create a new character?
Is it the writing "shortcut"? People understand that, say, Robin, doesn't have superpowers, that he's a skilled gymnaist and fighter, a detective thanks to his association with Batman, etc. - so, you don't have to explain that he doesn't have lasers that shoot out of his eyes, as you might with a new character.
It just seems to me, that even with the examples given, it'd make more sense to create your own new character than film one that is protected and copywritten. It's like (and I don't want this to offend, just saying) - it's like you're doing 100% of the crew work, 75% of the script writing (relying on 25% to be known from the character's already established past) - but have less than a 5% chance on distribution, etc. Not saying that other films have better odds or percentages of that to sell, but a fan film just appears to have huge hurdles to overcome, and I don't see that anything written yet even comes close to convincing me that it's worth the effort, and it is a hell of an effort to make any film - so why make one that can't go very far?
And, on the tail end of that question - ever have crew turn down work on your fan films, because of this?
Thanks for the answers so far, and the discussion.
P.S. And "Troops" seems a little outside this, because it was more of a parody of Cops, using Star Wars characters, than a traditional fan film, no?
If you have to put in all this effort, co-ordinate the same amount of people on set, put out the same amount of money, "re-create" the characters to a degree, etc. - and you're guaranteed you can't do anything with the film except in certain limited areas of exposure (which are probably more numerous than I'm aware of) - why do a fan film? Why not create a new character?
Is it the writing "shortcut"? People understand that, say, Robin, doesn't have superpowers, that he's a skilled gymnaist and fighter, a detective thanks to his association with Batman, etc. - so, you don't have to explain that he doesn't have lasers that shoot out of his eyes, as you might with a new character.
It just seems to me, that even with the examples given, it'd make more sense to create your own new character than film one that is protected and copywritten. It's like (and I don't want this to offend, just saying) - it's like you're doing 100% of the crew work, 75% of the script writing (relying on 25% to be known from the character's already established past) - but have less than a 5% chance on distribution, etc. Not saying that other films have better odds or percentages of that to sell, but a fan film just appears to have huge hurdles to overcome, and I don't see that anything written yet even comes close to convincing me that it's worth the effort, and it is a hell of an effort to make any film - so why make one that can't go very far?
And, on the tail end of that question - ever have crew turn down work on your fan films, because of this?
Thanks for the answers so far, and the discussion.
P.S. And "Troops" seems a little outside this, because it was more of a parody of Cops, using Star Wars characters, than a traditional fan film, no?
Much is just for the love of the material. I'll assume from your stance that you'd like to make money making films. Do you have any hobbies that you do just for self fulfilment? If so...do you necessarily need to make money from them or even to share them with others? If you found other people with the same hobby as you, would you consider colaborating to make a project in that field that's larger than what you could do alone?
They generally have a love for that material. It becomes a form of self expression for them. It may be based on other people's work...but so was the most widely recognized piece from Warhol.
They generally have a love for that material. It becomes a form of self expression for them. It may be based on other people's work...but so was the most widely recognized piece from Warhol.
Have you seen some of the fan films out there? Go to fxhome.com and search by Star Wars. You wouldn't believe the quantity and quality of some of these films.
<tony_tiger_voice>
They're grrrrrrrrrrrreat!
</tony_tiger_voice>
<tony_tiger_voice>
They're grrrrrrrrrrrreat!
</tony_tiger_voice>
I have the same reaction as steve.
I have seen the quality of the fan films out there - and that’s what interests me. I know how hard it is to develop, produce, shoot and finish a movie. To then put all that effort into a fan film seems (to me) an unusual use of talent and effort.
I usually imagine what would have happened if that movie maker had put all that time, talent, skill, dedication and passion into an original story.
Some of them are really fun to watch. I don;t like the fan films that recreate an existing scene. I like the ones that take the character into place we would never see them in in the “real” movie. Or explore a dimension of the character we haven’t seen. Or expand on minor characters.
I have seen the quality of the fan films out there - and that’s what interests me. I know how hard it is to develop, produce, shoot and finish a movie. To then put all that effort into a fan film seems (to me) an unusual use of talent and effort.
I usually imagine what would have happened if that movie maker had put all that time, talent, skill, dedication and passion into an original story.
Some of them are really fun to watch. I don;t like the fan films that recreate an existing scene. I like the ones that take the character into place we would never see them in in the “real” movie. Or explore a dimension of the character we haven’t seen. Or expand on minor characters.
knightly: I don't have time for any hobbies - I make films! I get what you're saying, but money aside - aren't films made to be seen and shared with others? To me, films are a form of storytelling. Telling the story to myself is a waste of time - I can already see it in my head, so I don't need to see it on screen. It's telling you, and affecting you, that's interesting to me.
Robert, I know there are a lot of them out there, and some very good ones at that.
As a side note, I don't think it's a bad thing to want to make money making movies. I think it's an incredible thing that we can, and wonder why more people wouldn't want to - that's why I marvel at the effort, money, time, etc. that goes into making there films, that could as easily go into making a resume reel. Wouldn't you love getting paid big money to do the hobby you love? Or do you worry that would take the fun out of moviemaking, having it be your job?
And on another side note, Warhol was vastly overrated as an artist, IMO. And I'm not a fan of sampling in music, either.
I get what you're saying, but money aside - aren't films made to be seen and shared with others? To me, films are a form of storytelling. Telling the story to myself is a waste of time - I can already see it in my head, so I don't need to see it on screen. It's telling you, and affecting you, that's interesting to me.Robert, I know there are a lot of them out there, and some very good ones at that.
As a side note, I don't think it's a bad thing to want to make money making movies. I think it's an incredible thing that we can, and wonder why more people wouldn't want to - that's why I marvel at the effort, money, time, etc. that goes into making there films, that could as easily go into making a resume reel. Wouldn't you love getting paid big money to do the hobby you love? Or do you worry that would take the fun out of moviemaking, having it be your job?
And on another side note, Warhol was vastly overrated as an artist, IMO. And I'm not a fan of sampling in music, either.
Some fan films are good, while others should've never been made. I think one of the main reasons that people make them is that they're fans and want to see themselves in their favorite TV shows and movies. There's nothing wrong with that, as long as they learn something in the process.
SteveSutton said:
There's an interesting angle I hadn't even thought of. Thanks!
Fan films...
I know several people that have made fan films... Some of them, not bad efforts... What I noticed is that these people were and ARE truly passionate about the subject, characters, etc. hence, a fan film. Basically, it was easier for THEM.
I hate to do this but I equate it to those people that play role-playing games. When it comes to these games, they are geniuses! Put them in the real world and they suffer. I saw this in the Navy WAY MORE THAN I LIKED. These guys (mostly guys anyway) were friggin geniuses when it came to either their role-playing games OR some hobby because it was their true passion. The Navy was simply an afterthought and a lot of them couldn't cope and a lot of them couldn't hack the daily rigor of the Navy which isn't that rigorous. LOL.
I see a kind of parallel here with fan films...
Some are true works of genius because the filmmaker is a GENIUS when it comes to that world. They are so friggin' IN TUNE with that world that they make a great fan film.
Some simply do not want to do anything else... Some can't do anything else. Some use this as a stepping stone to bigger and better things and hopefully make it.
Thank God we live in a country where we can pursue just about any legal activity no matter how trivial others may see it. I may think it's a waste of time and effort but hey, that's only my opinion and well, we all know about opinions...
I think what is being said here is the NUMBERS GAME part of this activity... Making a film is already a numbers game and making a fan film SEEMS to jack those numbers up a hell of a lot more so some of us wonder WHY?
Actually, I don't wonder why myself... LOL. I'm the kind of guy that drives 8 hours to Phoenix when I'm craving an IN-N-OUT burger so what the hell do I know?
I think what is being done here by possible naysayers is to be careful because it IS such a numbers game. That's an awful lot of work without an awful lot of reward.
I say, if you have to do it, DO IT! Get it out of your system and make it happen.
I will also say, that's one hell of a hobby... LOL.
filmy
I know several people that have made fan films... Some of them, not bad efforts... What I noticed is that these people were and ARE truly passionate about the subject, characters, etc. hence, a fan film. Basically, it was easier for THEM.
I hate to do this but I equate it to those people that play role-playing games. When it comes to these games, they are geniuses! Put them in the real world and they suffer. I saw this in the Navy WAY MORE THAN I LIKED. These guys (mostly guys anyway) were friggin geniuses when it came to either their role-playing games OR some hobby because it was their true passion. The Navy was simply an afterthought and a lot of them couldn't cope and a lot of them couldn't hack the daily rigor of the Navy which isn't that rigorous. LOL.
I see a kind of parallel here with fan films...
Some are true works of genius because the filmmaker is a GENIUS when it comes to that world. They are so friggin' IN TUNE with that world that they make a great fan film.
Some simply do not want to do anything else... Some can't do anything else. Some use this as a stepping stone to bigger and better things and hopefully make it.
Thank God we live in a country where we can pursue just about any legal activity no matter how trivial others may see it. I may think it's a waste of time and effort but hey, that's only my opinion and well, we all know about opinions...
I think what is being said here is the NUMBERS GAME part of this activity... Making a film is already a numbers game and making a fan film SEEMS to jack those numbers up a hell of a lot more so some of us wonder WHY?
Actually, I don't wonder why myself... LOL. I'm the kind of guy that drives 8 hours to Phoenix when I'm craving an IN-N-OUT burger so what the hell do I know?
I think what is being done here by possible naysayers is to be careful because it IS such a numbers game. That's an awful lot of work without an awful lot of reward.
I say, if you have to do it, DO IT! Get it out of your system and make it happen.
I will also say, that's one hell of a hobby... LOL.
filmy
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that's what I've been saying, fan films are made by FANS, they want to create and sometimes dream of being that particular character, they doing it more for love than seeing it 'out there for distribution'.
Everyone does film for one reason or the other, I think instead of asking why, just say Why Not?
What makes you make your film? is it because of the story? or is it because of the money? Same applies to Fan Films, yet, adding another 'coat' to it, they make them because they want to see THEIR stories, or hell, be in it themselves.
JW
Everyone does film for one reason or the other, I think instead of asking why, just say Why Not?
What makes you make your film? is it because of the story? or is it because of the money? Same applies to Fan Films, yet, adding another 'coat' to it, they make them because they want to see THEIR stories, or hell, be in it themselves.
JW
FYI: The "Troops" folks are exploring the empire's view point further at:
http://impstherelentless.com/
http://impstherelentless.com/
Why not?
Some people just can't get past the numbers game... They can't get their head around that because THEY would never do that...
However, I don't think anyone would begrudge anyone else by them going out to make a fan film. Hey, if THAT is where your passion is, by all means, jump all over it.
My brother is a world champion flight shooting archer. In other words, he can shoot an arrow from a particular kind of bow, farther than anyone else in the world... At least on record. I on the other hand, would never spend the time, money, and effort to pursue an activity like this and my brother will never sit down and write a script or make a film. LOL.
So yeah, WHY NOT?
Like I said, if that's where your passion lies, go for it but don't expect a lot of support from people who can't get their head around it... I say GOOD LUCK and hope it works out for the best but of course, I would never make one myself. Just like flight shooting.
filmy
Like with anything out there...mdifilm said:that's what I've been saying, fan films are made by FANS, they want to create and sometimes dream of being that particular character, they doing it more for love than seeing it 'out there for distribution'.
Everyone does film for one reason or the other, I think instead of asking why, just say Why Not?
What makes you make your film? is it because of the story? or is it because of the money? Same applies to Fan Films, yet, adding another 'coat' to it, they make them because they want to see THEIR stories, or hell, be in it themselves.
JW
Some people just can't get past the numbers game... They can't get their head around that because THEY would never do that...
However, I don't think anyone would begrudge anyone else by them going out to make a fan film. Hey, if THAT is where your passion is, by all means, jump all over it.
My brother is a world champion flight shooting archer. In other words, he can shoot an arrow from a particular kind of bow, farther than anyone else in the world... At least on record. I on the other hand, would never spend the time, money, and effort to pursue an activity like this and my brother will never sit down and write a script or make a film. LOL.
So yeah, WHY NOT?
Like I said, if that's where your passion lies, go for it but don't expect a lot of support from people who can't get their head around it... I say GOOD LUCK and hope it works out for the best but of course, I would never make one myself. Just like flight shooting.
filmy
mdifilm said:Everyone does film for one reason or the other, I think instead of asking why, just say Why Not?
Agreed, and just because I have a specific goal in mind for my films, doesn't mean anyone else has to have the same goals, I understand. I have a great respect for anyone who follows a dream of any kind. I'm really just more or less curious as to the 'why' of fan films, and I think I'm gaining some great insight here, without it (hopefully) coming off like I'm putting anyone down for that choice.
Thanks for the continuing discussion.